User Panel
Posted: 11/11/2018 1:56:20 PM EDT
Found this on GunBroker (not mine, obviously):
US Property Marked Colt M16A1 UNFIRED NIB RARE How likely is an unfired NIB U.S. Property M16? |
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[#1]
It’s certainly possible. I just found a NIB 1974 SP1. Not sure if I’ll keep it or look for a shooter. I’ve never been an “unfired” guy. I want to shoot it at least a little but it seems a shame for guns to go so long unfired and then get shot.
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[#2]
You see the sellers other auctions? Has a genuine Russian SVD and a Walther WA2000
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[#3]
There been a number of unfired, New in wrapped Garands found, so I suppose it's possible.
If it's government marked, how is it for sale on GB? |
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[#4]
Quoted:
If it's government marked, how is it for sale on GB? View Quote |
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[#5]
I'm sure there are some, but I wouldn't doubt that a lot are fired, cleaned dup and claimed to be unfired NIB when they certainly are not.
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[#6]
There are lots of NIB collector grade guns that have never been fired, or put up for sale.
I think Tony or someone else did an estimate that most of the guns for sale over the years are the same ones, and the vast majority are not seen or sold. |
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[#7]
IIRC, @tony_k once speculated about 7 years ago there were around a dozen NIB/unfired US Government Property M16 rifles in the registry; but I do not know if that was specific to M16A1 rifles or more rare variants. Granted, this was before all these rare collector grade/marked Colts hit the market. I can't find the thread now, but I think the discussion was around damcv62 talking about ripping two mags through an unfired M16 (XM177?) before selling it to a buyer.
ETA: There are a number of guns that have not been seen. There were veiled references to all the NIB Colts (such as the Tool Room serial M4) a couple years before they surfaced in the wild. With a couple thousand transferable models floating around, it's hard telling what is really out there. Look at some of the passing references from members like BigBore; he mentioned one of his customers has six - 6! - M16s for sale he bought in the early 1980s and he did not realize how much they were worth but is holding onto them as it's a "family" of rifles. |
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[#8]
There are not many out there. The majority belong to Reed Knight, who cleaned out Colt's vaults under a business deal, and most probably will never appear on the market.
It's been awhile since I studied this, but the dozen estimate seems correct. US-marked M16s came into transferable status in three ways: --The majority were Alaska Pipeline guns, sold/given to the pipeline company by the U.S. gov. during construction. Since it is not an official government agency, these were entered into the registry and later sold when the company upgraded its armament. If the one for sale is not truly unfired but cosmetically redone, it could be one of these. --Less common are contract overruns which never left Colt, and remained in inventory as either tool room guns or simple overruns that were later sold. These were Form 2'd into the NFA Registry. These would be the only ones which could be unfired, and thus my "dozen" estimate. If it is truly unfired, the one for sale could be this. --A few were brought back unofficially by Viet vets and then registered in the '68 Amnesty, or "demilled" (either truly or theoretically) and Form 1'd by the owners. These are, IMHO, somewhat gray-area guns which (except for the actual demils) are theoretically still government property. None of these were unfired. Hope that helps. |
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[#9]
Quoted:
ETA: There are a number of guns that have not been seen. There were veiled references to all the NIB Colts (such as the Tool Room serial M4) a couple years before they surfaced in the wild. With a couple thousand transferable models floating around, it's hard telling what is really out there. Look at some of the passing references from members like BigBore; he mentioned one of his customers has six - 6! - M16s for sale he bought in the early 1980s and he did not realize how much they were worth but is holding onto them as it's a "family" of rifles. View Quote |
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[#10]
Here is another 5,4xx,xxx S/N range U.S. property marked gun. Not unfired, but in nice condition other than where someone installing the bolt release damaged the receiver.
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/11646-wtswtt-26500-reduced-colt-m16a1-property-of-us-govt-marked/ |
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[#11]
Quoted:
The majority belong to Reed Knight, who cleaned out Colt's vaults under a business deal, and most probably will never appear on the market. View Quote |
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[#12]
Quoted: I have heard the stories of Reed Knight buying pallets of M-16s from Colt, but curious why these would never appear on the market. He is a very capable businessman, and for sure has a massive gain in this investment, but it is only an investment if he sells at some point. I get that he appears to have enough to move the market so he wouldn't want to put them all out there at the same time, but at some point he or his heirs are going to want to turn those into money and realize his gains, right? View Quote He has been collecting NFA for a long, long, long time and to my knowledge, the only time he has ever parted with a machine gun is in trade for an MG that he wanted more than the ones he had. The depth and breadth of his collection -- displayed at the Institute for Military Technology he founded in Titusville -- is simply unbelievable; it is certainly the best in the world, private, public or government. If you ever get a chance to go see it, do so. Here's the web site: https://www.instmiltech.com |
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[#13]
I just picked up my M16A1 and I'm fairly certain its never been fired. It was not advertised as unfired but after looking it over very closely there is not a single indicating mark that it has ever been fired. Debating if I should just leave it that way..
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[#14]
Quoted:
I just picked up my M16A1 and I'm fairly certain its never been fired. It was not advertised as unfired but after looking it over very closely there is not a single indicating mark that it has ever been fired. Debating if I should just leave it that way.. View Quote First off, you own it now. You can do whatever you want with it. Next, why did you buy it? To shoot it, or as an investment? If shooting it lowers its longtime value, does that worry you? If you do decide to shoot it -- and that's what I did, but it was way back in 1994 when I only paid $2k for my Colt M16A1 -- the first thing I did was to strip it down to the bare receiver, carefully pack away all the original parts, and rebuild it with Colt components that worked perfectly but on which I was not worried about wear. Today, 24 years later, the total wear after 50k+ rounds is a slightly more matted look to the anodizing simply from handling, one ding (from the brass ejected by an HK shooter to the left of me at an MG shoot), and a thinning of the anodizing on the top of the receiver's rear hoop from the bolt assist rod being cycled. If I reassembled it with all of the original parts, it would not look like new, just minty. It is probably worth a couple grand less than if I had left it in the safe, unfired. I'm OK with that because I didn't buy it as an investment ... and I've had a quarter century's worth of fun with it, and created a lifetime of priceless memories. Your Mileage May Vary. |
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[#15]
I have an RR SP1 and an RLL for shooting. This is investment
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[#16]
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[#17]
The box in the OPs link looks like a commercial shipping box, much like what a 6920 comes in... not a Military box.. Modern Military boxes open at the top, and the only internal dividers are at the ends to keep the rifle in the middle. They also contain the MILITARY manual, not the commercial one. I can't image that changed much.
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[#19]
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[#20]
Quoted:
You see the sellers other auctions? Has a genuine Russian SVD and a Walther WA2000 View Quote HERE is some of his other items for sale ( all super mint and expensive ) I bet this guys GB acct got hacked by a scammer he has feedback of 1 single item as a seller ( 99% of his feedback is as a buyer ) seems strange he now has super expensive premium things for sale |
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[#22]
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[#23]
Well the army has them. I had a police agency loaner brand spanking new out of the factory card board box. We were loaned various 1969-1972 brand newbnever used rifles.
Not sure how you get transferable ones. |
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[#24]
Quoted:
That is what I am saying. The gunbroker gun has a dash. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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[#25]
I feel puny..... with my inferior
RR ar15 SGW..... oh well.. I'll just keep on shooting it. |
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[#26]
It's possible.
It was only a couple of years ago that I scored a dead freaking mint, unfired 601 compete upper (-bolt and carrier) still in Cosmoline, for all of 200 bucks. I bought it for a retro build but actually I found that I simply did not have the heart to be the first person to shoot it and start putting wear and tear on an upper that had made it this far without even being cleaned of cosmoline. I sold it to a "major player" in the MG market. For a fair profit. I'm sure it got mated up to a 601 correct lower in great condition and it's in some happy owner's safe by now. |
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[#27]
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[#28]
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[#29]
Quoted:
IIRC, @tony_k once speculated about 7 years ago there were around a dozen NIB/unfired US Government Property M16 rifles in the registry; but I do not know if that was specific to M16A1 rifles or more rare variants. Granted, this was before all these rare collector grade/marked Colts hit the market. I can't find the thread now, but I think the discussion was around damcv62 talking about ripping two mags through an unfired M16 (XM177?) before selling it to a buyer. ETA: There are a number of guns that have not been seen. There were veiled references to all the NIB Colts (such as the Tool Room serial M4) a couple years before they surfaced in the wild. With a couple thousand transferable models floating around, it's hard telling what is really out there. Look at some of the passing references from members like BigBore; he mentioned one of his customers has six - 6! - M16s for sale he bought in the early 1980s and he did not realize how much they were worth but is holding onto them as it's a "family" of rifles. View Quote |
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[#30]
Quoted:
The box in the OPs link looks like a commercial shipping box, much like what a 6920 comes in... not a Military box.. Modern Military boxes open at the top, and the only internal dividers are at the ends to keep the rifle in the middle. They also contain the MILITARY manual, not the commercial one. I can't image that changed much. View Quote |
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[#31]
Quoted: yea I saw that HERE is some of his other items for sale ( all super mint and expensive ) I bet this guys GB acct got hacked by a scammer he has feedback of 1 single item as a seller ( 99% of his feedback is as a buyer ) seems strange he now has super expensive premium things for sale View Quote |
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[#32]
I can tell you that they are definitely out there (my photos, not my gun):
Attached File Attached File |
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[#33]
Quoted:
Found this on GunBroker (not mine, obviously): US Property Marked Colt M16A1 UNFIRED NIB RARE How likely is an unfired NIB U.S. Property M16? View Quote |
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[#34]
I have seen 4 transferable property marked colt M16A2 guns that are new in box, the first 2 of have a 6 million serial number had 40mm launchers attached from colt. The 3rd one Has a 6 million serial number, the 4th has an 8 million serial number.
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[#35]
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