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Posted: 5/28/2023 1:47:35 PM EDT
With the news over in Bakhmut, I read that underequipped Wagner forces were doing drugs to attack even after getting shot a million times, making them turn into zombies. And that got me thinking. If a police officer had their gun drawn, and the attacker had a ball bat say for instance, while it should be obvious that the cop will win 99% of the time
However let's say the suspect is drugged (like Captagon, adrenalin injectibles or Tilidine even) anddon't feel pain or go into shock immediately, then a knife can become a serious threat to a law enforcement officer because what drugs can do is delay the person’s physiological and psychological response to being shot. It prevents or delays the onset of shock. So the person can remain at least semi-functional for a time. And as the attacker closes in, it's gonna get pretty ugly, even if the cop has backup or reinforcements, given the dedication of the criminal (except for maybe heart or headshots).

Do you think this scenario is credibpe and needs to be studied more? It's sorta like when people get doped up and won't feel a taser or pepper spray. This is how Wagner was fighting over in Bakhmut, to which Stalin's troops would never would retreat without being killed so they had used chairs and the like to attack people armed with guns during WW2. Si this has definitelt been d one before.

But concerning police, how much of a threat this is?
Link Posted: 5/28/2023 2:15:31 PM EDT
[#1]
OP's scenario is one of the reasons people are supposed to practice failure drills.  2 to center of mass, 2 to the head or pelvis, then if needed two more to whichever target area hasn't yet been hit...and keep shooting until the threat is no longer a threat.   The goal is never to wound or kill, the goal is to stop the threat.  That is also why you are always supposed to be looking for some kind of cover, or something to put between you and the threat.
Link Posted: 5/28/2023 2:24:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GreyBeardBiker] [#2]
Yes, a drugged up shitbag with a knife is dangerous as fuck. And certainly adds a twist to the adage: "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight!" The post below nails it. You engage the shitbag until there is no longer a threat. And the Tuller drill should teach you to get as much distance between you and the knife wielding perp as quickly as possible. A couple of slashes to each arm, while you are protecting yourself, will take you out of the fight near instantly if it gets the tendons and ligaments which work your hands and wrists.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Genin:
OP's scenario is one of the reasons people are supposed to practice failure drills.  2 to center of mass, 2 to the head or pelvis, then if needed two more to whichever target area hasn't yet been hit...and keep shooting until the threat is no longer a threat.   The goal is never to wound or kill, the goal is to stop the threat.  That is also why you are always supposed to be looking for some kind of cover, or something to put between you and the threat.
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Link Posted: 5/28/2023 2:41:19 PM EDT
[#3]
What about those trench shovels that the Spetsnaz uses for throwing?

Link Posted: 5/28/2023 2:43:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Failure drill is the simple answer. Once the body fails to stop them seek the head or worker case break the pelvis up to limit mobility and then head shoot them
Link Posted: 5/28/2023 3:53:58 PM EDT
[#5]
The old 21 foot rule… you must evade while drawing. Get off the x.
Link Posted: 5/30/2023 7:39:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Brian01] [#6]
This is why basic firearm training emphasizes shot placement, followup shots, and failure to stop drills.

That scenario is nothing new and the solution is to generally aim at whatever is exposed from cover, but try to aim for the upper chest where the heart and lungs are if possible (also because the heart as your primary aiming point gives you the best chance of still hitting something even if your aim was slightly off), if they are still moving then shoot more holes in other parts of them too, like their groin area because that will cripple their legs, or their head because obviously that is where their brain is. The stomach isn't necessarily not worth shooting at all, but less important of a target than the head/chest/groin and lots of marksmanship qualification courses will score stomach hits as worth fewer points or as a miss.
Link Posted: 7/18/2023 9:17:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Some good info has been shared.  Failure drills, moving and cover etc.  Taser and spray are good largely because of pain compliance.  If they don't feel it things get more interesting.  Ultimately, no matter what someone is on or how big they are, any bullet in an eye socket or ear hole is pretty effective at turning off the lights.  In the meantime move and use cover and be glad you have high cap mags, not a revolver or 1911.
Link Posted: 7/18/2023 1:48:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By snevid:
Some good info has been shared.  Failure drills, moving and cover etc.  Taser and spray are good largely because of pain compliance.  If they don't feel it things get more interesting.  Ultimately, no matter what someone is on or how big they are, any bullet in an eye socket or ear hole is pretty effective at turning off the lights.  In the meantime move and use cover and be glad you have high cap mags, not a revolver or 1911.
View Quote

Not that you want them to get inside of that effective contact distance, CNS or mobility shots are about the only effective way.

Ironically, my son (24 year old LEO/SWAT) had a guy high on cocain take a swing at him on a callout, he took him down with a modified army bar hold putting pressure on it to get the guy compliant. He said dude didn't feel a thing and kept struggling and just help arrived, the dudes arm went "pop"; the high dude just laughed and kept struggling.

Practice your failure drills...

ROCK6
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