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Posted: 9/10/2020 9:03:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Shooter world precision has been great for me. For 5.56 I normally load 24.0gr with a 77gr SMK with Varget. With SW Precision I need about 24.2gr to duplicated it.
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Posted: 9/10/2020 9:15:24 PM EDT
[#2]
I have got VERY good results from sw precision, tighter than varget has produced for me.
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Posted: 9/10/2020 9:20:58 PM EDT
[#3]
The precision rifle and varget produce very similar results in .308 with a 175SMK.
From a 20" barrel, FGMM case, BR2 primer... at around 85* 43gr SWPR gave me 2587 while 43gr VARGET gave 2572. Both could be loaded hotter. |
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Posted: 9/10/2020 10:28:10 PM EDT
[#4]
I was going to say my buddy had good results trying sw precision but my buddy is beast556 haha. Here in colorado ive been able to find 8208xbr something somewhat similar might be shooters world match rifle though its a ball powder (supposedly near identical to aa2520) also h4895 (not imr4895) and 8208xbr are supposed to be similar (not the same but similar) another "alternative" to varget might be imr4064 if loading 308 ive been bugging beast556 to try 4064 for months now I love it with about 42.4 grains under some old pulled 118nm bullets
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Posted: 9/11/2020 12:12:51 AM EDT
[#5]
H4895 is incredibly close to IMR-8208-XBR in burn rate.
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Posted: 9/11/2020 12:17:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: H4895 is incredibly close to IMR-8208-XBR in burn rate. Does it meter as well? |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 1:50:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it meter as well? |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 7:06:58 AM EDT
[#8]
I changed up some of my powders a couple of shortages ago. I use win 231 and Imr 4227 and can load all my pistol calibers. For 223 I went with ramshots xterminator, during this shortage I can still find these powders in stock. I will not buy unique anymore to hard to find. I suggest looking at what is available now and start looking into switching to those powders. If its available now chances are they have a greater production capacity or not a lot of people use that powder. Ramshot powders that I have used work great I think most people have no data in their older manuals so they skip over it, anyway I maintain large enough inventory to last 2-3 years now.
Snowman357 |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 8:51:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I changed up some of my powders a couple of shortages ago. I use win 231 and Imr 4227 and can load all my pistol calibers. For 223 I went with ramshots xterminator, during this shortage I can still find these powders in stock. I will not buy unique anymore to hard to find. I suggest looking at what is available now and start looking into switching to those powders. If its available now chances are they have a greater production capacity or not a lot of people use that powder. Ramshot powders that I have used work great I think most people have no data in their older manuals so they skip over it, anyway I maintain large enough inventory to last 2-3 years now. Snowman357 Good call. Unless you are a master match level shooter all most of us just need a powder in the correct burn rate to function with reasonable speed, safety and accuracy. if you drive on without waiting for THE powder you can do a lot of good shooting and have a broader expetience.. You also get a list of tested backups. The ones I might try to stick with THE powders are for my hunting loads that I try to stick with a temp stable type like Hodgdon’s Extreme line up. Just takes one factor out come late hunting season, then again most powders are good enough anyhow, Its not like a deer at 200 yards needs half moa accuracy or will escape unscathed if the bullet strike is 1 7/8th inches lower. I bring bipods or cross sticks and can take rather long poke but I can often also stalk closer to make it a 200 and under shot. Usually have the cover. I am slowly working through my older loads for deer guns and weening them off less temp stable ball powders wher I can. Not always though, the 6.8 and 2200 go together like peas and carrots and that set up isn’t a long range bean field rifle anyhow, Load to the need and rifle capability not discounting the highly intelligent handsome talented shooter toting it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 8:55:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Does anyone actually use power pro varmint or 2000-mr?
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Posted: 9/11/2020 10:35:35 AM EDT
[#11]
I use Varmint and have had really good luck with it pushing 52gr SMK through my 1:8.
Its a ball powder so it meters great. It seems to be a very underappreciated powder. I got onto during the 2013 shortage and have stuck with it. I used to use 8208 XBR behind my heavier bullets, but am currently trying H335. This load is still a work in progress, but many have recommended it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 11:27:16 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone actually use power pro varmint or 2000-mr? I've used 2000MR in my 223AI. I hear that it is temp sensitive but it shoots pretty well in my rifle with the 75 Amax. Left group is 5 shots, right group is 3 shots  Attached FileI'm kinda pissed that 8208 has gone the way of Varget and H4350 but I guess that's what I get for singing its merits  I've read some good things about Shooter World Precision but I haven't tried it. Maybe I should... |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 8:45:25 PM EDT
[#13]
I thought I found my go to powders years ago. I always keep 2+ years of supplies around so Im usually never short. At the beginning of the last shortage I was buying 1 pounders of alternate powders and doing workups. I found a few new go to powders and have a lot of good data.
I remember getting SW pistol powder for $16 at the gun show no less and thinking must be crap. I was quite surprised how good it was and I liked the price point. Its not my go to powder but I would not pass it up if I was short. |
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Posted: 9/11/2020 9:46:10 PM EDT
[#14]
I was looking at the reloading data today for SW AR Plus, Tactical Rifle, and Precision for 223 55 gr loads.
So I sized 50 223 cases and got them dry tumbling to remove the lube. I will load one of those powders tomorrow. So far I have only fired Clean Shot in 9mm, worked fine. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 1:13:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it meter as well? No. IMR-8208-XBR has a smaller grain structure than H4895. |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 8:36:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does anyone actually use power pro varmint or 2000-mr? 2000MR Yes. You can push 77gr .223 in it pretty hard and a 45gr load under a 168gr SMK with make just about any .308 a shooter |
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Posted: 9/13/2020 1:49:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it meter as well? So my *tuned Redding PM does + or - .1 grs. *Tuned Dillon PM the same. So this powder can be loaded progressively with good results. With any extruded powder in a 22 caliber neck, pause at the down stroke and give the powder time to flow through that small neck. * Old PM tuning thread. photobucket ate some of the pic, but enough remains to get the idea. Works for any brand PM. https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Tuning-a-Uniflow-powder-measure/42-380281/ |
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Posted: 9/15/2020 8:35:37 AM EDT
[#18]
The question was about H4895.
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Posted: 9/15/2020 10:32:44 AM EDT
[#19]
IMR3031 is actually a fantastic and underappreciated .223 powder. Only problem is the grains are very long, so it doesn't meter so good in a progressive. It works, just a bit of a crunch&munch experience.
As stated, 4895 is great, but similar problem of large grain size. 4064 is actually not bad either, but it's one of the worst progressive feeding powders you can run in .223. IMR4166 is a pretty decent .223 powder, though again the grains are about the size of 4895. For good progressive .223 powder, you're looking at either ball powders, or finer extruded powders the likes of 8208 and LT32. LT32 is the finest extruded powder I've ever seen, about the size of some ball powders even. It also has both the Copper control and T-insensativy properties, and is a match powder - I love it. It also happens to be on the fast end, and really shines with 55 gr and lighter, and also is about one of the most expensive powders out there as well. So it's never really taken off. But in todays world where everything is overpriced and unobtainable, the price differential isn't that notable anymore; and you can run great 55 gr ammo with it, and should be able to run solid 62 gr ammo with it. |
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Posted: 9/15/2020 11:09:08 PM EDT
[#20]
General question...
For what reason (there must be a good one) are many extruded powders so damn big? It seems like they could just turn up the cutter speed and make them so much shorter. Tune the recipe a bit to to compensate for the more dense load. I suppose the greater surface area would result in a faster burn. ETA: anyone want to send me a beater rifle they don't mind seen blown up? I'll rig it up in sandbags with a string from behind a tree  and grind some extruded powder until it flows great. Try to work up a load. I'll pay shipping. I just wonder how much difference there would be in, say, H4895 knocked down to half size. I know they make a short cut version, but IIRC it uses the same charge. So using the above logic of more surface = faster burn, they'd have tuned the recipe some.
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Posted: 9/15/2020 11:59:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: General question... For what reason (there must be a good one) are many extruded powders so damn big? It seems like they could just turn up the cutter speed and make them so much shorter. Tune the recipe a bit to to compensate for the more dense load. I suppose the greater surface area would result in a faster burn. ETA: anyone want to send me a beater rifle they don't mind seen blown up? I'll rig it up in sandbags with a string from behind a tree and grind some extruded powder until it flows great. Try to work up a load. I'll pay shipping. I just wonder how much difference there would be in, say, H4895 knocked down to half size. I know they make a short cut version, but IIRC it uses the same charge. So using the above logic of more surface = faster burn, they'd have tuned the recipe some....or just try a Lee Perfect PM. Does very good with extruded powders and you won't need to get behind a tree with a string to pull the trigger.  I did a some tuning to the Lee to get a very repeatable +/- 0.1gr with IMR4895. My tuned Redding PM wasn't even close to this having this level of repeatability. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:21:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: General question... For what reason (there must be a good one) are many extruded powders so damn big? It seems like they could just turn up the cutter speed and make them so much shorter. Tune the recipe a bit to to compensate for the more dense load. I suppose the greater surface area would result in a faster burn. ETA: anyone want to send me a beater rifle they don't mind seen blown up? I'll rig it up in sandbags with a string from behind a tree and grind some extruded powder until it flows great. Try to work up a load. I'll pay shipping. I just wonder how much difference there would be in, say, H4895 knocked down to half size. I know they make a short cut version, but IIRC it uses the same charge. So using the above logic of more surface = faster burn, they'd have tuned the recipe some.That's one of the funniest things I've ever read here. Be careful with that one. You'll put your eye out. The granules are coated in 'deterrent', a graphite-based coating that slows the burn rate. Break enough granules and expose all that nitroglycerine without adding deterrent and,... well,... it won't be a propellant anymore. It'll be a bomb. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 9:54:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was looking at the reloading data today for SW AR Plus, Tactical Rifle, and Precision for 223 55 gr loads. So I sized 50 223 cases and got them dry tumbling to remove the lube. I will load one of those powders tomorrow. So far I have only fired Clean Shot in 9mm, worked fine. Looking forward to your results. I'm eyeing a 5lb jug of Clean Shot and a 8 lb jug of Tactical Rifle for my SBR to replace 8208 |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:29:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's one of the funniest things I've ever read here. Be careful with that one. You'll put your eye out. The granules are coated in 'deterrent', a graphite-based coating that slows the burn rate. Break enough granules and expose all that nitroglycerine without adding deterrent and,... well,... it won't be a propellant anymore. It'll be a bomb. Is that not the whole point of single base powders, being entirely nitrocellulose, and not containing nitroglycerin which results in the temperature sensitivity of double base powder? Yeah, that's why I wouldn't do it with a gun I wasn't ok with blowing up, and from behind a tree. I like a little danger, and who doesn't like to blow stuff up? Would I load a ground up powder and put my face behind it? Fuck no. Would it be a cool experiment, hell yeah! |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:37:57 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...or just try a Lee Perfect PM. Does very good with extruded powders and you won't need to get behind a tree with a string to pull the trigger. I did a some tuning to the Lee to get a very repeatable +/- 0.1gr with IMR4895. My tuned Redding PM wasn't even close to this having this level of repeatability. That doesn't sound like any fun at all  I should upgrade and ditch my RCBS measure. I'm not sure +/- .1gr really works that well for accuracy loads. Maybe in -06 or bigger cases. What SD/ES are you getting with .1gr in .223? The rcbs seems to get me a little more than .1, probably .15 when using H4895. It can throw .15 over ten charges (263gr) or 6 charges (42/252gr) of TAC. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 11:47:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that not the whole point of single base powders, being entirely nitrocellulose, and not containing nitroglycerin which results in the temperature sensitivity of double base powder? Yeah, that's why I wouldn't do it with a gun I wasn't ok with blowing up, and from behind a tree. I like a little danger, and who doesn't like to blow stuff up? Would I load a ground up powder and put my face behind it? Fuck no. Would it be a cool experiment, hell yeah! That's good, you had me worried there for a while.  I was laughing so hard I couldn't think of 'nitrocellulose', not that the chemistry would matter in this scenario. Perhaps the moderator needs to add a serious message on reloading safety to this thread. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 1:39:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's good, you had me worried there for a while. I was laughing so hard I couldn't think of 'nitrocellulose', not that the chemistry would matter in this scenario. Perhaps the moderator needs to add a serious message on reloading safety to this thread. Seemed to me to be "thinking out loud". Safety note; don't modify powder size, use as is. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 7:18:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's good, you had me worried there for a while. I was laughing so hard I couldn't think of 'nitrocellulose', not that the chemistry would matter in this scenario. Perhaps the moderator needs to add a serious message on reloading safety to this thread. I mean he did mention using a string and firing the rifle from a distance. I mean, if you want to do destructive testing, that's the safe way (assuming hiding behind cover as well) to do it right? |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 11:42:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Everything in this forum is "follow all reloading safety rules", "...at your own risk", "do not use another's load data, work up your own", "don't be a dumbass".
It's a given. Maybe tomorrow if I get bored I'll see what happens if I crush up some H4895. I'd love to see a huge spike in burn rate when flashed in a pan. Without some real equipment and knowledge you'd never be able to consistently alter the powder to begin with, so it wouldn't work in the long run. You have to have an absolutely homogeneous kernel size to maintain load density, or you'll go from nice safe loads at the top to kaboom at the bottom of the can. I suspect someone setup to make blackpowder at home could pull it off, but I do believe smokeless is "wetted" with some chemical that itself is hazardous, and not water. ETA: this reminds me I need to make some more hillbilly hollowpoints and test them against the unmolested bullets. I'm still shocked they hit the target, let alone made a respectable group and expanded. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 10:59:35 AM EDT
[#30]
The shooters world powders have a nice seal under the cap.
Not a single pound of Hodgdon I have purchased has had a seal. |
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