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Posted: 5/17/2018 5:44:59 PM EDT
I've been fiddling with my new Garand lately, and part of that is practicing loading a full 8 round clip. I'm able to get it down in there and lined up to where the bolt begins to strip one off, but it seizes tight after a 1/4 inch or so, like rock solid. Bumping the oprod with your hand does effectively nothing, feeling completely solid, as if it were welded in that spot. Pulling the bolt back and letting it run forward into the rear of the cartridge once or twice gets the round out and into the chamber with little issue. I find this issue does not occur if I only have seven rounds or fewer in the clip.

I bought mine new from sarco inc. Are they out of spec or is it just because they're so new? Is there anything I can do to help aliviate this issue?
Link Posted: 5/17/2018 6:23:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Are you sure you are seating it deeply enough?

I never heard of or saw this problem, but ours were not what you could call new in the late 50s.
Link Posted: 5/17/2018 6:43:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Out of spec op rod maybe?    Is this all USGI parts?
Link Posted: 5/17/2018 6:56:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Bent op rod or op rod spring is garbage.

You running m2 ball?
Link Posted: 5/17/2018 7:04:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Bent op rod, or incorrect re-assembly of the rifle's inner workings would be my guess.
Link Posted: 5/17/2018 7:37:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Is the bullet nose diving into the chamber face? Can you take a picture of where the rd is setting when this happens?
Link Posted: 5/17/2018 8:14:42 PM EDT
[#6]
All the parts, a far as I can tell, are USGI. I even collected the numbers that I could find off of as many parts as I could. The ammunition is M1 garand loads from Privi Partizan. I haven't fired it yet, so I don't know if this happens during firing. This is happening when I load it manually. I'll add that this doesn't happen every time, nor consistently with the same clip. Sometimes it does, others it doesn't.

It never seizes when cycling manually with seven rounds or less. It always frees up when the bolt is retracted and allowed to spring forward into the top round. Also, I make it a habit to have the top round on the right. I hear that's the right way to load them.

It doesn't appear that the round is binding anywhere on the rifle. I can't see any brass or copper witness marks anywhere on the gun, save for the bolt face.




I hope the photos aren't too crappy. Single handed with a flashlight in a dark room.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 5:35:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Just about every garand will need the bolt assisted shut on the first round but it should go without a lot of force. What is stamped on bottom of the enblocs? Its hard to tell from the pics if the enbloc is being lifted to correct height. Take out the op rod spring and measure its length, it should be straight with no bends or kinks
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 6:32:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Load the en bloc with the top round on the other side, and try that.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 8:11:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 8:35:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Odd problem.

My very first garand, a cmp rifle in about 1996 was doing that.  I never figured it out but I was new.   Mine would take all I could do to get the loaded clip to latch in and loading the top round was a hellacious bind.  That was with the supplied usgi new surplus clip.  CMP had me ship it back unfortunately this was after I redid the beautiful fire lightning birch stock.   I did not get the same gun back and did not find out what the issue was.  All I could think of was a thick accelerator or off spec engagement surface.  It functioned fine without the ammo or clip so I wasn’t thinking op rod was twisted.

I still miss that stock.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 8:45:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 8:51:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 3:19:21 PM EDT
[#13]
The ones I bought are stamped with AEC 3 on the bottom. When I got them, the parkarizing felt very rough so I smoothed them off with some 0000 steel wool. I shot them with WD40 afterwards but I think that evaporated a long time ago.

Tried the clip I got with the Garand 3 times and it didn't bind. It barely even needed my help getting the round chambered. It also doesn't appear to have any manufacturer stampings.

It also binds when the top round is on the left.

The oprod and spring look OK to me, but I'll let you all be the judge.

I will note that where the spring meets the.... follower arm? It naturally wants to stay at the angle seen in the last photo. It doesn't bind or anything upon installation or removal though.




Link Posted: 5/18/2018 4:09:36 PM EDT
[#14]
The only place I'm seeing grease is the under side of the barrel.  Add a dab to all the other all the other places moving parts interact.  M1's love grease.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 4:11:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Unless its just the angle the picture is taken from the op rod catch does not look to be installed properly. I am guess the leg is on top of the clip latch not under it as it should be. Remove it and reinstall properly

As I said in my above post "Take out the op rod spring and measure its length, it should be straight with no bends or kinks "

Just from looking you can see spring is not straight, it should measure between 19 - 20 1/4 inches
Replace it with a spring from Orion 7 or Garand Gear, other brands can cause function problems
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 4:13:21 PM EDT
[#16]
The camera doesn't do my relubrication any justice. Cellphone camera in crappy indoor lighting. The grease I've been using is high temperature wheel bearing grease, what my father would call a 'short fiber' grease. This stuff spreads out real good and blends in with the surface. All moving parts have been lubricated, rest assured.

I'll see about getting a new spring.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 4:26:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The camera doesn't do my relubrication any justice. Cellphone camera in crappy indoor lighting. The grease I've been using is high temperature wheel bearing grease, what my father would call a 'short fiber' grease. This stuff spreads out real good and blends in with the surface. All moving parts have been lubricated, rest assured.
View Quote
Okay dokey.  

My daddy taught me to look at the simplest things first.  

And nothing is simpler, or cheaper,  than adding some grease.
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 4:28:08 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a few clips that require a snack to feed the first round on every M1. I have 1 clip that fails to feed the second round everytime on every M1. The first is normal the second is garbage. Try some known clips

I am betting you have tight new clips and maybe a weak spring as well. If it is just jamming up on the first round,  feeds and ejects all the rounds fine and ejects the clip fine it will loosen up with use
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 4:48:49 PM EDT
[#19]
When I bought them I was under the impression they were brand new. I bought them from sarco inc. I might unload my clips and use that steel wool on the inside as well. If they're rough on the outside new I would suspect they're rough on the inside.

In the photos it appears that the follower rod and arm aren't connected, they are. The open slots in the rod are interfacing with the lugs/protrusions on the arm.

EDIT: Are fulton armory parts any good?
Link Posted: 5/18/2018 5:59:51 PM EDT
[#20]
look at the op rod catch in your picture with the follower rod installed, it appears to be pointing down. It should be level with the barrel, I suspect the leg on the op rod catch is on top  not under the leg of the clip . It is easy to install it incorrectly if not paying attention
Link Posted: 5/24/2018 11:27:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
When I bought them I was under the impression they were brand new. I bought them from sarco inc. I might unload my clips and use that steel wool on the inside as well. If they're rough on the outside new I would suspect they're rough on the inside.

In the photos it appears that the follower rod and arm aren't connected, they are. The open slots in the rod are interfacing with the lugs/protrusions on the arm.

EDIT: Are fulton armory parts any good?
View Quote
How are you doing your slap assist on the bolt? Palm up or down, swinging or pushing, what part of the op rod handle is being hit etc.
Link Posted: 5/28/2018 3:52:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Just a suggestion but make sure your Garand stock is not for a 308.  This will cause binding of the oprod in the stock
Link Posted: 5/28/2018 4:40:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just a suggestion but make sure your Garand stock is not for a 308.  This will cause binding of the oprod in the stock
View Quote
How so? A original Navy Garand stock is exactly the same except it has notches cut out for the block. The stocks interchange perfectly
Link Posted: 5/28/2018 7:08:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Some HISTORY for some that don't know.



From “The M1 Rifle” page 14 published by the NRA

M1 7th Round Jam
While loading some 8-round M1 clips for a club match, I was warned to load them with the top cartridge on the right, or risk failures of the rifles to function. Is there any substance to this?

Answer: The warning you received was exactly backwards. The problem described did exist, briefly, but was solved sometime in late 1940 or early 1941. Further, before the fix was introduced, loading an M1 clip with the top round on the right did not prevent the rifle from jamming, it caused a jam to occur. The problem was that when a rifle was loaded with a clip that had the top round on the right, the seventh round (also on the right) would jump the clip and stub against the rear of the barrel above the chamber. The condition was considered so serious (and potentially damaging to the already questioned reputation of the Army's new rifle) that the M1 Rifles sent to Camp Perry in 1940 were specially modified to prevent them from being loaded with a clip having the top round on the right. In addition, ammunition sent with the rifles was checked and any clip found to have the top round on the right was reloaded to put it on the left. The problem was solved shortly after the 1940 National Matches when engineers at the Springfield Armory found that a drilling operation removed metal from two vertical ribs that supported the left front edge of the clip. Restoring the two ribs to their original configuration stopped the 7th round jam from occurring and allowed ammunition manufacturers to load clips without regard the location of the top cartridge. As a matter of convenience, it is easier for a right-handed shooter to load a clip that has the top round on the right.
View Quote
Then since you may want to know more.......



From the M1 Rifle field manual FM 23-5 http://www.fulton-armory.com/tea/op.htm

quote:

14. Loading Rounds into a Clip

(a.) Insert eight rounds into the clip, holding the clip, open end upward, and the rounds in palm of your left hand. Start placing the rounds in from the lower left of the clip and make sure that each round is against the rear wall so that the inner rib of the clip engages the extracting groove of each round. The top round will then be on the right, making the clip easier for a right handed firer to load in the rifle. For the same reason, clips are loaded this way at arsenals.

(b.) Each time rounds are loaded into a clip, the clip should be checked for long rounds. If one rounds extends beyond the others, it will be hard to load the clip into the rifle. The long round should be seated by removing the top round, pushing the long round into place and then replacing the top round. Tapping the bullet against a solid surface to seat the long round may result in the bullet being pushed back into its cartridge case. This may damage the bullet or break the bullet seal which could result in changes in the ballistic performance of the round.
View Quote
I actually came to post on this thread on the right or left side first round loading issue.  But well, since you haven't even fired it yet.  May I say..... check it out, lube it up properly and.....

"Get out there and try it."

IMHO, new* rifles and clips should be tried.  That is, unless you found something during the initial inspection.**  I like to use full power Military Spec ammo for a break in.  In this case it would be M2.  OK, Ok, ok.....PPU I have no problem with (even though I've never bought some).  But, I do use LC, HXP, and my own reloads (well, no reloads for a break in).

*New to me, even though USED (technically).  Yes, some problems have been reported with clips that are from certain makers (example: JMO, and certain other foreign made clips) and problems with heavy parkerizing.  So, bring a variety with you to the range.  Remember......the clips were meant to be "expendable."

**I can't believe the amount of folks saying that their NEW rifles have QC issues when stuff is "normal."  i.e. not passing the "tilt test" with a brand spanking new M1a/M14.  Sometimes, it takes cycling (shooting) for parts to wear in properly.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....LOL, I can remember seeing a thread where the original poster was claiming that his M1's OP rod was "bent".

Rrrright.....
Link Posted: 5/28/2018 7:15:41 PM EDT
[#25]
any updates on the OP's rifle?
Link Posted: 5/28/2018 7:37:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Lubing your M1 is like lubing the M1a.  So well........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSX2koEAYvQ  

Yes, there are other specific videos on YouTube for the lubrication of an M1.  But, this one just recently caught my eye.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 5/28/2018 11:06:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

How so? A original Navy Garand stock is exactly the same except it has notches cut out for the block. The stocks interchange perfectly
View Quote
I had read the Italian stocks do not.
Link Posted: 5/29/2018 5:22:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I had read the Italian stocks do not.
View Quote
Big difference between 308 garand stock and Italian 308 stocks. A USGI garand will not even fit in a Italian garand stock as its 1/2 inch shorter
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