Anyone have pics of the modernized FALs used by the game wardens in Africa? It seems like they got lost in the site shuffle I can't seem to find them anymore.

In on this.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/SANParks-Rangers-Anti-Poaching-Units-and-FALs-Pic-Thread-/7-501848/

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SAME!
Bigstick61 (?) had a yuge thread in GD with loads of FAL pics...I can't find it now.

@boersun The thread was on this forum.  The link is three posts above yours.

I was able to find multiple pictures of that particular FAL.

Some info for prospective clone-builders:

Lower assembly is from a SADF-contract FN 50.61, which is unique and identifiable via the relieved stock hinge with the swivel located at the bottom instead of at the top, and the use of the tangent sight for fixed-butt rifles (also has the UM property markings).  His has had the original vertical frame lock lever replaced with a horizontal one (probably made by LIW in Pretoria) and the serial number hand-stamped below the rear sight, as the new lever blocks the original one.  This one has a Type 1 trigger housing, possibly with internal lightening cuts.  One picture makes it look like it might have the R-marked selector with the beak preventing rotation to the auto position.  His trigger housing was made originally as a para; you can tell due to the lack of a taper at the front top of the part below the rear sight; some factory paras were made with trigger housings using parts originally made for fixed-stock rifles, which have that taper.

The BCG would also be, almost certainly, FN-made from that 50.61 contract and would have UM property markings.

The upper receiver is a Type 2 receiver.  These rifles appear to have had the original Type 1 receivers replaced with Type 2 receivers from FN, and I'm not sure why.  Maybe the SADF firearm destruction campaign was satisfied by destroying the receiver and not the rest of the parts, which then were used to build new rifles for civilian LE agencies?  The rifles have earlier Type 2 receivers made before FN changed to a shorter marking in a simpler font.  Receiver is carry handle cut, and the carry handle was cut off, with the ring left in place (like the Rhodesians used to do).

Barrel is either an SADF-contract FN barrel, or a LIW-made replacement barrel, non-bipod cut, cut down to something like 16.5 or 16.75".  Handguards are either FN fiberglass or LIW plastic non-bipod types.  Has the mid-sized grenade sight gas plug as standard on SADF rifles.  Other upper parts are all likely either FN or LIW.  Narrow-foot BHO.  Has a DSA para scope mount.  Not sure if the optic is an Aimpoint Comp M2 or Comp M3.

The left handguard has an aluminum Weaver rail bolted in through holes drilled into the handguard for attaching a light.  He has a Surefire 600 series Scout, not sure which variant, attached using the thumbscrew mount.

Factory finish is black paint over Parkerizing.  These were painted in the 1990s using the same green as the Rhodesian camo paint.  His was then spray-painted in the colors you see over the remnants of that paint, and burlap wrap was added as well.  I can't identify the sling for sure, but I think it's a Blackhawk 1-point bungee sling, with the fastex buckled portion tied instead of buckled.

Buttstock assembly and trigger housing that look correct would be the hardest parts to source (an OEM stock would need to be modified, or a DSA one which would also need the OEM release lever parts, which are hard to find; trigger housing would need to be a factory Type 1 FN para without markings so that correct-looking ones could be applied).  Ideally, you'd want a 1960s unmarked FN para BCG, or a SA-contract bolt and unmarked FN bolt carrier, marked to resemble the real thing.  SA-contract barrel after that (matching barrel and bolt, with unmarked BCG engraved to match would be most ideal), which would need a cut-down job.  Factory FN or SA NBC handguards aren't the easiest to get these days by themselves, either.  The rest isn't too difficult to find, although stuff like the grenade sight gas plugs have gotten pricey these days.  Obviously you'd need to use a DSA or Coonan Type 2 receiver (a Coonan with the FN style Coonan markings on the right side that say "Fabrique Coonan", made before they started having QC issues would likely look the most correct).

I had consolidated a number of photos of this particular rifle and wish I had saved them, as at least one no longer exists on the Internet.

Rifle in foreground is his:



Rifle on the left is his:









This one is a zoomed-in version of the one above, if you open the image in a new tab:





This one is a zoomed-in version of the one above, if you open the image in a new tab:

Lyttleton Engineering Works made their own Type 2 receivers, which are marked as "R1" on the left side aft of the charging handle track. Source: Firearms Developed and Manufactured in Southern Africa 1949-2000 by Chas Lotter pp 147-148, 157

As an aside, in that book, the only rifles pictured with Type 2's are Paras, but in reviewing my books and photos on my computer, I'm thinking most, if not all FN's in Rhodesian service sporting Type 2 uppers came from RSA.

LIW's receivers for the R1 and R3 are not Type 2s.  They are similar to the second transitional receiver type made by FN between the Type 1 and Type 2.  This transitional receiver has the receiver ring cut like a Type 2, and the rail lightening cuts cut in the shape of the Type 1, but with the radius of the Type 2.  

The LIW receivers differed from the FN version by having a different lightening cut on the right side of the magazine well.  Instead of a quadrangular impression, they used a triangular one cut with a bit that had a larger radius.  Some were also sand-cut (but not most).  These are colloquially referred to by FAL enthusiasts here as the "Type 1.5" due to being a hybrid between the Type 1 and Type 2.

LIW receivers do not have markings on the right side, while his rifle, and others made in the same vein seen in other photographs, do.  The right side markings are FN in the longer, italicized fashion.  No evidence of the South African arms in the magazine well in photos I've seen so far, which was present on all SADF FN-contract rifles.  The receivers are also Type 2, and not LIWs variant of the Type 1.5.

One photo of a SADF 50.61 that I've seen looked like it might have a Type 2 receiver, but the photo's resolution is poor.  The rest that I've seen were either Type 1 or the first transitional receiver, which is basically a Type 1 with the receiver ring cut like a Type 2, with a Type 1 trigger housing in either case.  Photographs of these are difficult to find, period, though.

These older paras being used by the park rangers were acquired no later than the 1990s.  Most had their barrels cut down to various lengths (some do retain the original 21" length, though).  Most were also fitted in the 2000s with the DSA scope mount, and most of those got either an Aimpoint or some sort of holosight (a few remained irons-only).  All were apparently painted in the Rhodie green color some time before the scope mounts were purchased (1990s, I think).  Sometimes you can see traces of it in pictures.  They all have the unique SADF-contract para configuration.  They also all have Type 2 receivers, even though most have Type 1 trigger housings.  On unpainted examples, the finish on the receivers is less worn than on the rest of the parts.  They seem to be replacements.

The rangers also got SAPS paras that were from small FN purchases as well as R1s and other fixed-stock FALs that were converted to paras using FAMP para conversion kits that South Africa bought either in the 1980s or 1990s.  Their newest paras are from the purchase from DSA specifically for the game rangers, but these are seldom seen in photographs.  They did have issues with their DSA-made hammers breaking.

I also found out that the rangers use a special load for defense against dangerous game.  180-grain monolithic RN solid made by Dzombo.  Has the traditional RN form used in dangerous game bullets.  Not sure about velocity and I've seen no other specs on it.  The bullets don't seem to be imported to the U.S. at present, which is too bad.

"R1" encompasses a range of South African FALs. Their Para version was officially designated "R1 Paratroop" and were fitted, at least officially, with Type 2 upper receivers. The R3 has a Type 3 receiver. "R1" could refer to the initial M2-style rifles received from FN Herstal, or to domestically-produced rifles using Type 1, "1.5", or 2 receivers. I'm well-aware of the receiver differences, and LIW made all the major types- 1, "1.5", 2, and 3- at different times and for different purposes.

Not all of the SANP rifles have text on the right side of the receiver. Therefore, it stands to reason that some may be R1 Paratroopers with a Type 2 receiver.

No such thing as an R1 paratrooper rifle.  LIW did not make any paras.  The SADF-contract FN 50.61s were designated Rifle, 7.62mm (Paratroop).  They mostly or entirely used Type 1 receivers.

South Africa bought smaller batches of paras in different configurations with different receiver types (depending on year of production) for SAPS, prisons, park rangers, and other civilian armed organizations.  They also bought some, IIRC, from FMAP in Argentina as well as para conversion kits from them.  Similar purchases were made of fixed-butt rifles.

R1 is exclusively the designation for the 50.00 type model produced by LIW.  It only used the type of receiver described above, with some early ones having sand cut bolt carriers and receivers.  They were designated Rifle, 7.62mm (R-1).  The R3 is an R1 made to be semi-auto only for issue to the Kommandos, with a blue painted selector to help identify it, but is otherwise identical to the R1.  The three generations of sniper rifle were all designated Rifle, 7.62mm (R-1; Sniper).

The 1st SADF contract with FN had rifles designated by SA as Rifle, 7.62mm (M1; FN).  These had barrels with plain muzzles and a bayonet lug.  I found out from Peter Wells not too long ago that some of these were lightweight models, with hiduminium trigger housings, return spring tubes, and other parts.  I've seen a Rhodie parts kit from one of these lightweight rifles from this contract.  IIRC from Peter Wells, these mostly went to the South African Navy, with the Army getting the standard versions; the Navy apparently only retired theirs around a decade ago.  These had Type 1 receivers.  I think these also had the rear sights marked in yards.

The 2nd SADF contract with FN had the rifles designated as Rifle, 7.62mm (FN).  These had the combo device and grenade sights, and IIRC, the earliest ones had the sights graduated in yards.  These had Type 1 receivers.

The SADF also bought FALOs from FN.  These were designated as Rifle, 7.62mm (Heavy Barrel; FN).  These also had Type 1 receivers.

Since many folks claim that paras were R2s, it should be noted that R-2 was the designation for the Portuguese G-3s used by the SADF.  Of course, R-4 and up were their Galil variants.

All four major SADF FN purchase predated LIW production.  These FNs were predominantly Type 1 and the first type of transitional receiver between Type 1 and Type 2.  A small number of the paras might have been Type 2 or second transitional type.  LIW receivers were all their unique version of the second transitional style called as the Type 1.5.  They did not make any other receiver type.  The smaller FN purchases had basically every receiver type made by FN (1, first and second transitional, 2, 3, and 4).  They don't have any SADF designation since they were only bought for civilian use.

I'm missing a couple of images from the SADF catalogue, but for evidence here are some of the pages I still have (the hard copy is in the possession of Peter Wells):







And the cover of a document for the R-2/G-3:

Great write up and pics...the R2 is an odd one. Never seen one in person, but I know they were out there.
In regards to the R3/ R1 deal. If you knew someone or got lucky, you got the R1
We had an R1 and a Sanna on the farm. The Sanna was....errrrm....interesting to hang on to when you pulled the trigger.

Some of your information is correct, some is partially correct or needs further explanation, and some is outright incorrect. You really need to pick up a copy of the book I mentioned a few posts up. It'll set you straight, as the folks who wrote it had direct access to SADF, LIW, and SA government archives.

LIW made Paras on Type 2 receivers, R3's had a Type 3 receiver instead of the R1's Type "1.5" (some had the blue selector, many did not), and, in addition to the initial batch purchased from FN, they made their own FALO's on R1 Type "1.5" receivers.

@boereseun

Do you you mind sharing with the class where your farm was located?

Cheers!

I've been trying to get a copy of that book for over two years.  Never have been able to find one.  A lot of my information, and the document images, come from one of the South African small arms cognoscenti (who does own a copy of the book in question, although I don't think he was involved with it).

A lot of what you're posting is information for which I have never seen any evidence in print, online, or in images, or conflicts with what I have been able to find over the years.  I'd appreciate it if you could maybe scan some key pages or images to post since it's not something I'll be able to look at on my own for the time being.

Yeah, after I posted, I did a search for any places that had the book for sale so I could provide a link and found nada. I might be able to scan some pages if my POS scanner will cooperate. I'll subscribe to this thread o I don't forget. Hopefully, they'll do a reprint soon.

I'll start with the topics I listed in my last post. Let me know if there are any others you want me to look for.

The way I understand it, this book was like hacking away at the Gordian's Knot of misinformation that has compiled over the years about Southern African weapons. And pardon me if any of my typing comes off as abrupt; I type the prior posts while dealing with customer on the phone.

Cheers!

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Love my para. It’s probably the most favorite of my FALs

@lew
Our farm was about 30km South of a town called Vivo - in the old North Transvaal area. Now known as Limpopo. We had some "issues" with folks from the former Rhodesia in the 80's and early 90's.

This is my inspiration for my FAL build...while it won't be 100%...it will be darn close...

Anyone know what color this is and what kind of cerakote would match it?

Also what they do to the handguard to get that texture.

It's KG Gunkote.  That's what they've been using to refinish their rifles, and apply to new rifles, like the ones they bought from DSA.  The rifle pictured is basically the same as the one in the well-known picture posted above other than finish and barrel length.  It's one of the older paras based on the SADF-contract 50.61 rifles from FN.

Any idea how they get that pebbly texture on the handguard?

I am torn between this look and a Rhodie paint job for an Imbel kit and R1 receiver I have. Very tempted to go with an 17 or 18in barrel as well. The kit is really worn so the cerakote would probably be easier than the Rhodie paint job as it would need a new Parkerizing base.

Rhodie paint job would require a black oven-cured enamel paint over the Parkerizing as a base, with the Rhodie paint on top.  You also have to get the gloss down, as the only paint kits on the market currently (AFAIK, anyways) are a glossy paint, while the Rhodie paint was flat and got smoother from handling (but not to the degree of the paint in the kits; more of an eggshell or satin at most).

I think what you're seeing on the handguards is the effect of a thin coat over fiberglass-impregnated plastic handguards (like what IMBEL uses; take a look and notice some similarities in the pattern), which would also mean that those are FN handguards (which makes sense, given the provenance of the rest of the rifle), as the R1 handguards are straight plastic (and a bit different from the straight plastic used by FN for later production).

That's some sort of crinkle paint on the handguard for sure.

Dunn Edwards has the best match to Rhodesian paint. Like the original Dupont Centauri, it's a semigloss bordering on flat, but the current DE offering is a hybrid oil/acrylic, and is far more durable.

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Finally got my Aimpoint.

I thought that the FN and SA guns were parked and it was only the Imbels that had the oven cured paint?

FN used a few different finishes, but the most common was black paint over Parkerizing. I think they also used blueing sometimes as the base finish. Parlerizing and blueing by themselves were both used, I believe, as well as other colors of paint over the base finish. Most in Rhodesia would have been black paint over Parkerizing.

South Africans did black paint over Parkerizing exclusively.

Argies did black paint over Parkerizing. Steyr did Parkerizing only.

A number of parts and sections of parts would not get painted on guns with that finish.

@bigstick61

I re-read the SA arms book and I rescind part of my earlier comment: LIW/LEW did not manufacture Type 2 receivers for their Paras; all the Type 2's came directly from FN, and that would explain where the Game Warden rifles came from- old stock R1 Paras.

Unfortunately, I am unable to scan the book without ruining the spine. My scanner is not up to the task of providing a clear image of the pages.

For more pictures and details, see my earlier post:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Game-Warden-FAL-Pics/7-521807/#i5474449

To get a reasonably accurate clone, I'd go with:

-a Rhodie surplus FN SA contract barrel cut down to the appropriate length; an IMBEL NBC barrel would look close enough, too

-Type 2 receiver

-Type 1 steel para lower made from the start as a para (straight instead of tapered in the rear sight area), ideally one that was never marked so you could put correct markings; alternatively, a Type 1 FN SA-contract lower from the Rhodie surplus converted into a para

-OEM folding buttstock assembly, or DSA with the OEM release button instead of what they use, with the top relieved for the fixed-stock tangent rear sight, and the sling swivel relocated and the original swivel area filled and welded to make it look like there was never provision for a swivel there

-R-marked selector with beak

-SA or FN black plastic NBC handguards

-combo device with the flats towards the rear

-ring cut off from a carry handle and installed

-DSA para scope mount

-FN para bolt and carrier set, especially unmarked so you could put SA markings on it (o unmarked carrier and Rhodie SA-contract FN bolt, and match up the former markings-wise); there are other options, though, such as the Argie para bolt carriers; you want the bolt carrier to have no sand cuts, unlike what DSA sells

-horizontal frame lock lever

-narrow foot BHO, most likely

-FN or SA made small parts for everything else

-Weaver accessory rail (not sure exactly which one is being used) attached to handguard

-Aimpoint, 1-point sling, and Surefire 600 light from pics

-burlap wrap

-spray paint in matching colors

-components should have the paint over parkerizing finish

don’t forget about the rear sight. It’s different as well

It's a standard 2-600m tangent sight used on fixed-butt rifles.  An FN would be the most correct.  

Oh, and I forgot to mentioned a fixed charging handle with plastic knob and lightening cut.

Why the plastic knob? I thought metal would be correct for SA?

FN contract 50.61s shipped with plastic knobs.  Same with the 50.00s.  R1s also had plastic knobs.  I'm pretty sure the first contract 50.00s also had plastic knobs, but perhaps they were hiduminium.  The FAL folks are seeking to clone is basically a SA-contract FN 50.61, possibly with a replacement receiver, and with a DSA scope mount, a cut-down barrel, a Weaver rail attached to the handguards, the carry handle cut off, and burlap wrap and spray paint for camo.

ETA: Also, if you look at the photos of the rifle in question, you can see the black plastic where the spray paint has worn off on the knob.

@RogerRoger

Plastic knobs were standard on R1s and R3s.

While not immediately related to this topic, aluminum knobs on FNs in Rhodesian service came from either G1s or were produced locally.

If I were to do a faithful clone build, I'd be doing it from individual parts and not kits.  A kit with all of the correct parts would have been a rare bird even during the heyday of FAL parts kits.

I guess it depends on how close you want to get.  You can get something with a passing similarity from DSA.  Their "range ready" 16.25" para is probably the closest you can get.

If you wanted to use a rifle as a base, with the plan to modify it to get it closer, I might go with the 18" just to get the non-standard barrel length of the rifle being cloned.  The range-ready rifle to get closer would require changing out the charging handle knob, magazine catch, frame lock lever, trigger guard, pistol grip, and selector; cutting the receiver for a carry handle and installing the ring from one, cut off from the rest; replacing the combo device with the earlier style; getting a bolt carrier without sand cuts; getting NBC handguards; replacing the gas plug with the grenade sight type; replacing the stock hinge piece with the one with a lever; and installing the FN tangent sight for folding-butt rifles or having the folding stock modified to look like the unique SA-contract ones and using the standard tangent rear sight.  I suppose you could also reprofile the barrel as much as possible to look like a NBC barrel, although it'll never be an exact match.  Considering what a DSA rifle costs today, especially their range-ready series, at best you won't save any money compared to a build, and in all likelihood, it'll cost more.  

Heck, just buying the rifle without any mods might not save a whole lot over a build in which you spent the money for a genuine OEM folding stock assembly, FN para lower (or FN SA converted to para in-country; a few of the "humper specials" Sarco sold a long time ago were these instead of the usual converted R1 lower), and Rhodie surplus SA contract parts and other FN parts, especially if you have the tools or access to them to do the building part yourself.

There doesn’t seem to be any hard and fast rule for how these rifles are set up. For example, this one has a railed foregrip, folding charging handle and standard para rear sight.

@lew

Keen to get more information too - and ideally a copy of the book in question - but NOT at the expense of destroying a good copy of said book by snapping the spine!!
Out of interest, where did you find your copy?

I've messaged a few book dealers in SA without success (all replied promptly) so I will cast the net wider to hunt a copy down; doubt it will be a quick result...
I did manage to find a copy of the same authors book on the Rhodesian conflict, so I should have that in a couple of days or so.

Still have a few odds and sods around the place for my old SLR - though I dunno if UK mags fit all models of FAL - seem to recall that they were not all interchangeable
Even got a couple of 20-rd mags last week in a UK 7.62 ammo tin, and the seller threw in a couple of more mags that he found (SA80 H&K types!) while I was on the way to collect the mags/tin. £15 the lot.
My L4 mag. (30-rd) will also fit a SLR but I need to get it refinished as it sat unloved for too long before I became the new owner...may get some of the UK issue Suncorite paint for it, if it's still on Ebay

@Saddler

I got mine from warbooks.co.za, but they're sold out.

Inch/Commonwealth magazines will not fit in Metric/Belgian-pattern FALs without reprofiling the front lug of the magazine. With 20 round Inch mags going for 3x the price of a Metric mag, anybody would be nuts to convert them. I don't know if you have it over there, but I use Rustoleum 7777 and heat curing to replicate FAL paint. It's durable looks like the original stuff. I don't know how it would match Suncorite, though.

@lew

THANKS!

Will see if there is a local source for the Rustoleum. (ETA: found one called 7778 - a high temp paint used on stoves & ovens)
The seller with the Suncorite is out of stock, but likely not for long, he seems to always have a supply to hand...plus I can check in with a few gunsmith mates to scrounge enough to do one gat

No decent SLR options here apart from straight pull, so I will modify one of my A5 shotguns instead - not a full Rhodesian replica as not all the parts are easy to find, but not far off what some of them looked like in the field.
Just a pity my hindsight was not in gear back when I worked for the UK branch of FN as I could have sourced a lot more info on the A5 Police models from the actual designers, etc.

I am not cloning but using this pic as inspiration. Does anyone know which Aimpoint Pro mount he is using here?

I think that is an older aimpoint comp m. I think that is the OEM low mount for it. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Slightly clearer picture of Bruce Leslie and his rifle. I think it’s just an OEM Aimpoint low mount but can’t be sure.

Mark from ARS ending up having an old school Aimpoint mount like this https://www.aimpoint.com/products/discontinued/30-mm-ring-low-and-wide-fits-weaver-picatinny-rail which I think looks pretty awesome so I went with that.

I also found this one https://aimpoint.us/aimpoint-ring-30-mm-low/ that looks pretty close to the picture if anyone is looking for one.