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Posted: 10/15/2020 6:26:01 PM EDT
Which one would you guys choose?  I have narrowed it down to those 3.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 6:33:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 6:44:04 PM EDT
A3 sucks without a secondary illumination source in most situations.

So you have to decide if you’re ok spending $1.8k-$2.5k on an older item that will have zero warranty support along with the possibility it’s stolen/could get confiscated or if you’d rather spend $2.8k-$3k on a new item with a 1 year warranty.

FWIW, I prefer the form factor/method of operation of the MAWL.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:02:35 PM EDT
The DBAL A3 and ATPIAL C aren't bad as long as you don't expect to use it past 100 yards, if you want something with more reach id say go with the MAWL only because it would be the safer purchase and by safer I mean its going to be warranted and you know it wont be stolen
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:14:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 52HRA:
The DBAL A3 and ATPIAL C aren't bad as long as you don't expect to use it past 100 yards, if you want something with more reach id say go with the MAWL only because it would be the safer purchase and by safer I mean its going to be warranted and you know it wont be stolen
View Quote


Depending on lighting conditions, that 100y could be somewhat optimistic.  Mixed lighting conditions/photonic barriers can cut that down substantially.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:16:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:28:20 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RJeff21:


Depending on lighting conditions, that 100y could be somewhat optimistic.  Mixed lighting conditions/photonic barriers can cut that down substantially.
View Quote



yeah you are probably right, I have  only used my ATPIAL C around my house witch is half mile off the main road so the only light is from the moon and stars and I find it usable out to about 150 on a dark night but I'm sure if I was in a neighborhood with street lights and house lights it would probably be more like 50 or less
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:44:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2020 7:49:28 PM EDT by madbarbarian87]
the civ dbal is really made to be an interior illuminator and maybe effective to 50-75 yard outside in urban environment. Rural you can stretch that to maybe 100-125 meters.

edit- there are plenty of illuminator options out there that you can add to your rifle to get out 300 meters+. Some much further. This is at the cost of weight, clutter, and requirement to practice with it. There are now switch options so it makes these options very easy to "mate" together. I will say a civ laser and a supplemental illuminator will still be much cheaper than an A4 or a mawl. Think a civ dbal with a torch or a luna for long range ir illum.

I use an A3 and mate it with torch (going to try out a luna as well), and then use a TAPS sync and have been more than happy hunting with it.
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:47:41 PM EDT
If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:51:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By night9:
If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL
View Quote

Wow!!  That’s double the price of any PEQ I am seeing!
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 7:54:34 PM EDT
mawl c1+ gets my vote
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 8:03:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By night9:
If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL
View Quote


Cheapest NGAL I’ve seen was in the $6k range.  
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 10:19:42 PM EDT
The ability to go from a near, mid, to a far focus on the fly and having a powerful illuminator the MAWL C1+  is the way to go. If you're looking for a LAM with a powerful illuminator that is @ the same and also matches the A3 price look at the D2
Link Posted: 10/15/2020 11:21:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2020 11:21:58 PM EDT by TNVC]
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 12:02:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By night9:
If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL
View Quote

Make sure you get the new new when you go NGAL.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 12:02:52 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC:


With no warranty or support and 99% chance it fell off a truck somewhere...
View Quote

Not all fell off a truck. Many of the early ones were dumped because of reasons.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 4:04:24 AM EDT
MAWL or FP A2
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 7:22:04 AM EDT
I was unhappy with illuminator performance of my A3 for hunting, so I swapped with my bro-in-law for his D2.  I’m much happier now, just wish I had a bit more battery capacity.  I still run secondary IR illuminator with 18650.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 7:46:41 AM EDT
I like the DBAL A3 for the vis override and the green laser.  The illuminator does kinda suck, but it's better than the PEQ civ illuminator and the surefire 300v washes out both.  

PEQs and DBALs are more 'sturdy', but it's not like I'm going to jump this equipment.  

The button layout on a MAWL almost demands a 'c clamp' grip, which works for the standing position.  For most other rifle shooting positions, the C Clamp isn't useable so you'd need the button pad.

Go prone, take your sight picture and reach the end of your handguard like you're operating a MAWL.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 8:17:50 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By battlemidget:
I like the DBAL A3 for the vis override and the green laser.  The illuminator does kinda suck, but it's better than the PEQ civ illuminator and the surefire 300v washes out both.  

PEQs and DBALs are more 'sturdy', but it's not like I'm going to jump this equipment.  

The button layout on a MAWL almost demands a 'c clamp' grip, which works for the standing position.  For most other rifle shooting positions, the C Clamp isn't useable so you'd need the button pad.

Go prone, take your sight picture and reach the end of your handguard like you're operating a MAWL.
View Quote


I will typically use digits over bore/rail to control the muzzle even prone or seated often times.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 9:19:12 AM EDT
Of the three it's the MAWL for me, hands down

Add in a ModButton for WL and you have a winning combo


Link Posted: 10/16/2020 9:49:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2020 9:54:22 AM EDT by MunnyShot]
A MAWL on a M4 at 1200 is easily operated in prone. On a longer rail 13"+ I use an insight dual switch for both A/B ports. Also the MAWL can be mounted at 9, 12, or 300 but it limits you on support side activation without an additional pressure pad.

@Tex-Zen nice rigs as usual. How does using a LAM compare to a thermal for whacking piggies and what distance have you used them out to?
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 9:56:18 AM EDT
Mawl.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 12:42:39 PM EDT
None of the above
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 1:03:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
None of the above
View Quote

What then?
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 1:41:05 PM EDT
Call me weird, but I like the regular PEQ full power more than the MAWL. I own both, the MAWL is cool but I’m not a fan of the illuminator options. Just wasn’t my cup of tea. YMMV
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 1:49:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tlandoe07:
Call me weird, but I like the regular PEQ full power more than the MAWL. I own both, the MAWL is cool but I’m not a fan of the illuminator options. Just wasn’t my cup of tea. YMMV
View Quote


Blasphemer!!

Ever messed with a Perst?
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 2:46:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OilfieldTrash78:

What then?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By OilfieldTrash78:
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
None of the above

What then?
I'd go with a Perst if it were me. I love my Perst-3. If I wanted just an illuminator I'd give the Klesh a try.

Klesh - $400
MAWL - $2500

You could literally buy 6 Kleshs for the price of 1 MAWL. Hell for that matter you could go with a less tactical Sniper Hawg light and come in well under even the Klesh, the 38LRX is just a hair over a hundred bucks. I have the 38LRX and am happy with it (Mostly).

I see no reason to spend two thousand 5 hundred dollars on a flashlight unless you just want to show off a bit. Nothing wrong with that! But if your money has a bit of salt around the edge from the sweat it took to earn it, I feel theres better options available.

Have a read through this thread

@OilfieldTrash78
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 3:33:21 PM EDT
Well, I recently got a DBAL A3.

I could have purchased a MAWL, but that would have meant that other things that I wanted to purchase in the interim would have been delayed. The thing I liked about the A3 is that its visible laser co-aligns with its IR laser making daylight zeroing and zero confirmation a relatively simple affair.  I also really like the visible override option that can be used with the UNITY TAPS switch for a nice set-up.  The other thing that was a selling point for me was the ability for the rail scales LEAF front sight to be placed on it. I did not even consider the ANTPIAL-C due to the complaints I had read about the civilian version's IR illuminator.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 5:00:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2020 5:01:21 PM EDT by TX-Zen]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MunnyShot:
A MAWL on a M4 at 1200 is easily operated in prone. On a longer rail 13"+ I use an insight dual switch for both A/B ports. Also the MAWL can be mounted at 9, 12, or 300 but it limits you on support side activation without an additional pressure pad.

@Tex-Zen nice rigs as usual. How does using a LAM compare to a thermal for whacking piggies and what distance have you used them out to?
View Quote
Thanks

They each have their uses but at less than 50 yards the LAM lets me get twice as many rounds off safely vs the REAP. I generally knock down twice as many hogs as my main shooting buddy who only uses his Hunter Mk2 but we tend to stalk really close just for the challenge. As the distance gets shorter and/or the hog hysteria makes them bolt all over the place the laser has a better and better advantage in speed over the thermals, but as the distance gets longer the thermal comes out on top

By comparison I've been out with @Tmm1270 who only uses a thermal but shoots from a tripod, and that guy is a killing machine. I'd say he easily hit twice as many as hogs or more than I did offhand with the LAM, but we were also generally 50 yards and greater which is where the thermal begins to have the advantage over the laser. To his credit he is easily the most experienced hog hunter I've ever shot with and there is no doubt he has his thermal technique dialed in. Dude is a cold stone pig killer, the rest of us just shoot a few here and there

I started off hunting thermal only but later moved to lasers for the experience and I'm glad I did, however, if I could only choose one it would be thermal every time. These days I intentionally have both thermal and laser on my main shtf/hunting guns and tend to use the laser most of the time but like I said where I hunt we tend to be able to get in pretty close. The last one I shot on my buddies ranch I hit at 0430 from a distance of about 12 feet. Perfect wind and no moon let me stalk over a hundred yards right up to him. That was definitely a sweet laser kill but I could have setup and bagged him from much further out with the thermal if I had wanted



Link Posted: 10/16/2020 6:27:25 PM EDT
Ok, now I am between the DBAL-D2 or the MAWL that is more than twice as much...
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 6:33:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tlandoe07:
Call me weird, but I like the regular PEQ full power more than the MAWL. I own both, the MAWL is cool but I’m not a fan of the illuminator options. Just wasn’t my cup of tea. YMMV
View Quote

I dislike floody illuminators.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 6:33:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OilfieldTrash78:
Ok, now I am between the DBAL-D2 or the MAWL that is more than twice as much...
View Quote

D2 is great. Just chunky.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 6:36:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shelbysguns:

D2 is great. Just chunky.
View Quote

But also have the price of the MAWL.  I am brand new to the lasers and NV, so this would be my first.
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 6:49:53 PM EDT
The D2 uses a IR LED illuminator and the MAWL uses a IR laser illuminator, I'm not sure if it matters to you or not but but because its a LED illuminator the D2 is going to have a more visible red glow when directly in front of it (all IR gives off a red glow that is only visible if you are in front of it )
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 6:56:43 PM EDT
This comes up often - latest go around that will answer all of your questions hopefully LAMs

Link Posted: 10/16/2020 7:24:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 7:24:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2020 7:27:29 PM EDT by bradpierson26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
Of the three it's the MAWL for me, hands down

Add in a ModButton for WL and you have a winning combo


https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/73202/20201005_134535-1621327.jpg
View Quote

@tx-zen
I have a D2 coming and a 1913 hot button in hand. How is that setup treating you?
Specifically does it dictate a C clamp? Would it be difficult/impossible say if I had a m203 underneath?
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 7:51:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:

@tx-zen
I have a D2 coming and a 1913 hot button in hand. How is that setup treating you?
Specifically does it dictate a C clamp? Would it be difficult/impossible say if I had a m203 underneath?
View Quote
I like it a lot, but not as much as the ModButton just due to personal preference. I like the downward pressure of the modbutton vs the forward pressure of the hotbutton, but no disrespect to the hotbutton at all. It's a good design by itself

As far as the M203 goes...hell I have no idea but I'm sure you'll figure it out
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 8:31:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
I like it a lot, but not as much as the ModButton just due to personal preference. I like the downward pressure of the modbutton vs the forward pressure of the hotbutton, but no disrespect to the hotbutton at all. It's a good design by itself

As far as the M203 goes...hell I have no idea but I'm sure you'll figure it out
View Quote

But in your configuration it’s easy enough to use the button on the D2 and the hot button?
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 8:40:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:

But in your configuration it's easy enough to use the button on the D2 and the hot button?
View Quote
Super easy on the A4 yes, I don't see why the D2 would be different excepting the M203
Link Posted: 10/16/2020 10:13:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
Thanks

They each have their uses but at less than 50 yards the LAM lets me get twice as many rounds off safely vs the REAP. I generally knock down twice as many hogs as my main shooting buddy who only uses his Hunter Mk2 but we tend to stalk really close just for the challenge. As the distance gets shorter and/or the hog hysteria makes them bolt all over the place the laser has a better and better advantage in speed over the thermals, but as the distance gets longer the thermal comes out on top

By comparison I've been out with @Tmm1270 who only uses a thermal but shoots from a tripod, and that guy is a killing machine. I'd say he easily hit twice as many as hogs or more than I did offhand with the LAM, but we were also generally 50 yards and greater which is where the thermal begins to have the advantage over the laser. To his credit he is easily the most experienced hog hunter I've ever shot with and there is no doubt he has his thermal technique dialed in. Dude is a cold stone pig killer, the rest of us just shoot a few here and there

I started off hunting thermal only but later moved to lasers for the experience and I'm glad I did, however, if I could only choose one it would be thermal every time. These days I intentionally have both thermal and laser on my main shtf/hunting guns and tend to use the laser most of the time but like I said where I hunt we tend to be able to get in pretty close. The last one I shot on my buddies ranch I hit at 0430 from a distance of about 12 feet. Perfect wind and no moon let me stalk over a hundred yards right up to him. That was definitely a sweet laser kill but I could have setup and bagged him from much further out with the thermal if I had wanted


https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/73202/20200919_191633-1599118.jpg
View Quote

@Tex-Zen, Thanks for the info. How do you zero your IR laser parallel or intersecting at a certain distance? I'm trying to see if I really need to buy a thermal right now vs just trying what I have now.
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 10:58:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 10:58:56 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MunnyShot:

@Tex-Zen, Thanks for the info. How do you zero your IR laser parallel or intersecting at a certain distance? I'm trying to see if I really need to buy a thermal right now vs just trying what I have now.
View Quote
I do the poor mans method of zeroing to the optic at the longest distance I can see the laser, which should be an intersecting zero, but then I move it 1 or 2 clicks to the side of the rifle the laser emitter is on. That gives me about a 1 inch offset at 100 yards which is fine for me
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 11:41:59 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
I do the poor mans method of zeroing to the optic at the longest distance I can see the laser, which should be an intersecting zero, but then I move it 1 or 2 clicks to the side of the rifle the laser emitter is on. That gives me about a 1 inch offset at 100 yards which is fine for me
View Quote

I dont add the clicks.

I figure if I got it EXACTLY right at 300ish then between there and point blank the futhest i can be off is the distance between the laser emitter and the muzzle. And elevation is the same as the day optic zero.
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 11:53:24 AM EDT
Telluric Group has targets for zeroing LAMs with mechanical offset.

Link Posted: 10/17/2020 4:47:56 PM EDT
Mawl is superior to dbal-a3 by far
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 6:12:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2020 6:16:26 PM EDT by bkr]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 52HRA:
The D2 uses a IR LED illuminator and the MAWL uses a IR laser illuminator, I'm not sure if it matters to you or not but but because its a LED illuminator the D2 is going to have a more visible red glow when directly in front of it (all IR gives off a red glow that is only visible if you are in front of it )
View Quote


This helps

Green.L 37mm IR 950 Glass Infrared X-Ray Filter 950nm IR Filter for Camera Lens Digital DSLR SLR

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTS7SKM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_i_nT2IFbYDBGFK5
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 7:25:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bkr:


This helps

Green.L 37mm IR 950 Glass Infrared X-Ray Filter 950nm IR Filter for Camera Lens Digital DSLR SLR

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTS7SKM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_i_nT2IFbYDBGFK5
View Quote


If you installed it, how did it affect it’s performance?
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 9:48:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2020 10:11:46 AM EDT by TNVC_Sam]
Link Posted: 10/17/2020 9:59:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2020 10:30:38 PM EDT by OilfieldTrash78]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Are they on the way?
@TNVC_Sam
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