I recently bought a Marlin 1895 SBL in 45/70.  I intend to use it for whitetail deer this season, however a friend has told me it has no business being a deer gun.  Says the caliber was never a successful deer gun.  Claims that anyone who'd use a 45/70 for deer is an idiot.  Am I missing something?  Hasn't the 45/70 lever action rifle been successfully used for whitetail longer than most of the deer calibers used today?  I understand that other calibers may do the same job better but he's completely dismissing the caliber altogether for whitetail.  Thoughts?

I still plan on using it this season, I'm not deterred lol.

I'm not exactly sure what a "successful" deer gun is other than me eating some f'ing deer at the endnof the season....  the 45-70 kills stuff... maybe big bullet  ewuals big damage tonmeat if you don't shoot right?  Your friend is a dumbass, shoot the deer so you dont ruon meat and you are fine.

Worked good for killing Bison see no reason it wouldn't work good on deer.

Thanks.  I'm not really sure why he was hating on the caliber so much.

Yoiur friend owns a judge doesn't he?

I have used my 45-70 as a deer gun, not very practical here in the Northeast. Bullet drop is massive.
Rounds are expensive, bullet is massive, it is more of a bear stopper.
Great caliper but not the most practical for deer with so many better options out there.

Go ahead and use it, have fun with it.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt I THINK he may be concerned about the soft lead leaking into the deer's bloodstream?

Not really a problem with the right round.

Other then that it's a great deer round, sufficient penetration and cavity

I Just helped my neighbor hang a 5 point elk that she took with her Marlin 45/70 405gr. at 125 yds.  She uses the same rifle, the same cartridge for white tails also.

Is it overkill for a deer, some would say it is, but with a non expanding bullet the wound isn't huge and when hit with it, you don't have to be too concerned about tracking.

I'm thinking of using a new-to-me .375 H&H, so I hardly see a problem.

That's what I used for the little Sitka black tails in south east Alaska. 

People would think I was crazy, but when you consider the big round brown furry things that inhabit the islands it makes sense.

I would choose something else, but it will kill deer just fine.



I'd prefer something smaller, higher velocity, and flatter shooting.


.

I've used a couple of my 45-70's as well as a .444 Marlin for both Whitetail deer, Mule Deer and Elk in Idaho, and I see no issue with the caliber.
And as the guy from Alaska said, it is a large black and brown furry thing deterrent.

It is a powerful, but Close Range Round.

You are not going to snipe a deer at 500 yards like a 300 WM or 7 Mag

Think of it as 30-30 range with .458 killing power...

Keep it around 150 yards and you are good.  Once you start trying to stretch it, the bullet drop is like a brick...

300gr JHP at 2350fps? Inagree with your friend, I think a deers hide would stop that for sure.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=155

Your friend is unschooled on the days before we had all the choices we do now, but the 45/70 has been used on everything available in N. America since it was introduced with great success.  There is no reason to not use it if that is what you want to do, keep your range in mind and have fun.

You really need to pick smarter friends.

Soft lead leaking into the bloodstream? huh?

Agreed. OP your friend is wrong and should feel bad.

OP tell your friend to feel bad.

He might have a seizure when he finds out people kill deer with a 50 cal black powder/lead ball.

OP, I hope you derive sufficient moral happiness from the knowledge that you're doing good deeds by befriending the mentally deficient.

Old article you might run by him, or maybe you could read it to him out loud, if you have the time to explain everything.

Linky

Thanks for the replies.  Im still going to use it this season regardless of what my friend said.  I do realize its a close range caliber but thats fine with me.

go for it

I've killed a lot of deer with a 44 magnum handgun.

I like the up close challenge

240gr Speer JHP with a max load of H110 does very well.

I'm taking mine out this year for deer or bear.


Op don't listen to your friend.

Have a look at this report on what the 45/70 guide gun can do...

Marlin Guide Gun goes on Safari

As others have posted - long range is not its strong suit - but if you use it inside 150 or so yards, it's a sledge hammer!

Enjoy,
Bob S.

Thanks, that was a great read!  I definitely plan on keeping my distances at 150 yards and inward.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

When I lived out west on the plains, I had no use for a lever gun - .30-30, .45-70, whatever.  That as because the shooting tended to be 300 yards plus on average and lever gun cartridges just don't cut it.  Now...I could make an exception for firearms like the Winchester Model 1895 or the Savage 99 as they can use more modern cartridges with efficient spire pointed bullets, but accuracy in both of those rifles was nothing to write home about.

In short, I spent about 30 years looking down on both lever guns and lever gun cartridges, but it was mostly because they didn't meet my particular need.  

However....when I moved to the Black Hills and started doing more hunting in the hills, where ranges were 150 yards or less, and a light, easy to carry rifle was an asset, I suddenly found myself wanting a Model 94 in 30-30 and in short order I owned one made in 1956.  With a Lyman number 2 tang sight, it was a superb deer rifle, well suited to the terrain.  

I also ended up with a Big Bore 94 in .375 Winchester, which is another excellent deer cartridge, one that adds about 50 yards to the effective range, compared to a .30-30, and here in NC, it's a better choice for black bear than a .30-30.      

And of course I discovered the Model 92 and it's excellent performance in a 20" or 24" barrel - with performance that approaches the .30-30, in a lighter, handier package.

I don't have a repeating lever gun in .45-70, but I have Sharps in that caliber and I also would not hesitate to use it on deer.   It's just a matter of selecting the right bullet, or if you go with cast bullets, the right bullet and the right alloy.

It's overkill.

And, overkill works.  Always has.

I like 45 70 so much for hogs and deer I have bought two in the last 5 months.

Your friend is clueless.

Sounds like your friend is an idiot. 45/70 is a fantastic  deer cartridge. Does less meat damage than a .270 does. Drops deer fast albeit with a limited range.

45-70 kills deer just as dead as any other caliber. I used mine with my 400 grain hardcast loads. They work like a champ. Guys used to shoot these at long ranges. It requires knowing bullet drop and holdover. This is a skill that is lost today. In the old days Bison were shot at far away with much slower bullets than we have today.

I'm a .45-70 fan myself, and I when I lived out west I used to play with my .45-70 at long ranges in the 400 to 800 yard ball park.

In regard to buffalo hunting, historically hunters normally worked in pairs (with a cook and a skinner also in the party). When they located a herd, they would get as close as possible downwind and then "stand" the buffalo, by shooting the buffalo on the outside of the herd as well as any animals that started to walk away.  This required one shot kills as a wounded buffalo would spook the whole herd.  Once the herd did spook, the hunters would follow the herd and pick off any stragglers.  

The other method used when a stand was not possible, was to trail the herd from downwind and take shots when the opportunity presented itself.  This worked because buffalo are not that bright and spook almost solely on smell.  And since they usually walked into the wind, trailing the herd worked well.

Now...remember the part about needing one shot kills? And the part about Buffalo being basically stupid critters that only spooked when they smelled a predator, or when wounded buffalo started running?  Well this meant that the average range when shooting a stand or shooting stragglers was around 200 yards.  Yeah, I know...big disappointment right?  Sometimes the range was longer, but again we're talking maybe 300 yards, not the 400-800 yards common in the longer ranged modern BPCR shoots.   But don't forget that buffalo hunting was business, not a sport, so they got as close as possible.

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Now taking this historical perspective and applying it to deer brings to light another issue with using a low velocity cartridge at longer ranges. With a modern rifle cartridge some shooters refer to the Rule of 400, which among other things refers to the reality that deer are neither slow nor stupid, and if you are shooting past 400 yards and the animal sees the flash and begins to move, it takes so long for the bullet to arrive, it will screw up the shot.  Best case, you'll miss, worst case you'll gut shoot the animal and not make a quick and clean kill.   Even with a 7mm Magnum, the time of flight to 400 yards (154 gr bullet at 3000 fps) is .46 seconds.  With a 150 gr .308 at 2800 fps, the time of flight to 400 yards is exactly a half second.  

In that same period of time a 405 gr bullet out of a .45-70 will only travel 175 yards.  With a faster 300 grain bullet (around 1850 fps) that half second flight time will get the bullet out to around 250 yards. So in effect, you're dealing with a rule of 200 or 250 when you're launching pumpkins with a .45-70.   Yes, longer shots are possible, but you're going to have to take them when the target is looking away so they won't pick up any muzzle flash to reduce the potential for the animal to start stepping when the shot is fired.  

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In today's long range BPCR shoots, the .45-90 seems to be king, as fouling is a major issue with the .45-100 and .45-120.  Duplex loads (often using RL7) help reduce fouling and also boost velocity, but they are probably on their way out, and that's a good thing as it should be black powder shooting, not duplex load shooting.   In a way it's a bit unfair as black powder manufacturing is literally a lost art. Little details such as specific woods used to make the charcoal, moisture content etc that had been learned through hundreds of years of black powder manufacture, were literally lost almost overnight when smokeless powder arrived, and as a result today's black powder produces more fouling than the black powder made in the 1800s.    

Personally, I found that the .45-70 shot well at longer range with both FFg with some powder compression, and with FFFg and no compression (in both cases using a 24" drop tube to fill the case more efficiently).  However my .45-70 Sharps is also long throated so I can seat the bullet quite a bit farther out of the case and thus get more powder in the case.  I toyed with the idea of reaming it to .45-90, but I figured it wasn't worth messing with it because .45-70 was working fine for me and the rifle shot great. And, with the long throat in my .45-70 and shallow set bullets, I would not have gained much powder capacity any way.  

Now that live back east, I don't mess with black powder as much, and instead use smokeless loads with 405 gr commercial cast bullets.  Accuracy is still excellent and performance is more than adequate at the 200-250 yard ranges I shoot at now. And I'm glad I didn't go to .45-90 as I have more smokeless options with .45-70.

I've used it to 200 yards with Hornady FTX loads in my Guide Gun  (on whitetail)  ---- have nailed silhouettes at 400 yards with it at the Whittington Center as well

Bullet placement is still a must , and as others have said, non expanding bullets work just fine , but I have used the 325 gr FTX bullet for years and don't find it to be overly destructive on meat at all

I wouldn't use it "way out west" - where 3- 400 yard shots are a distinct possibility, but where I hunt , 200 yards is a long poke and the guide gun with that bullet combo is awesome ---  never need follow up shots, and having to track is rare as well

Great deer cartridge

Just use some cowboy loads to keep from spoiling any meat. I used to kill deer all the time with a 1894 winchester in 45lc . Now my browning 1886 is my go to gun, nothing on this continent that 45-70 won't kill.

45-70 Is a fantastic woods round, where shots aren't long, tracking is a pain, and terrain is often difficult.  My guide gun is the perfect companion because of that, no tracking, light weight, and scaled for close quarters.  Combine that with the tremendous variability of possible loadins and you really can't go wrong.

I have taken a number of deer with .46LC RNHP using a Rossi 1892 w/20" barrel.  I think a 45-70 would do fine.  But, I like to get up close and personal with deer, not shoot them 2 counties away.

and a lot respondents herein...

Its not really overkill.  You can go from mild to wild depending on what you're trying to do.  350 grain hardcast at 1500 fps are very pleasant to shoot and plenty for deer.

 equals more meat damage!  With the right lead bullet, you can harvest the meat right up to the bullet hole.  Big chucks of lead don't need to be traveling twice the speed of sound to kill deer fast.  My 60cal flintlock with a patched roundball puts deer down right where it hits them.  The 45-70 is a Grand Old caliber!  My Guide Gun and Sharps have harvested plenty of deer.  This year my new Henry Color Case hardened lever, in 45-70 will bring the meat home.

x 2

OP, are you in a state that limits you to a straight wall cartridge? If not, there's lots of "better" options. Regardless, 45/70 will kill deer plenty dead.

It's an excellent deer round for areas where shooting ranges are relatively close.  

In my experience a bigger, slower projectile (like a muzzleloader bullet) has the opportunity to damage less meat than a much lighter but much, much faster projectile.  Regardless, as long as you're hunting in "big timber" ranges, a .45-70 will put a big piece of lead through a deer.  

What more can you want in a deer round?

Your friend is an idiot and I would take anything else he says about hunting/shooting with a giant grain of salt.

The 45/70 has been killing deer since about 1873.  Now I realize that today's deer, armored like a panzer as they are, can't be killed reliably with anything less than a 105 howitzer, but I'd still give it a try, you might just get lucky.

Seriously, the 45-70 will kill anything that walks on this earth.  So a whitetail is well within its capability.

It is a great hunting cartridge at short to moderate distances.

About the only possible negative is if a person were to be hunting whitetails in open areas and trying to make hits at long distance (most whitetail hunting is reasonably short) would take a skilled shot to work with the steep trajectory. The caliber would still kill fine , it becomes a problem of hitting the kill zone.

Perhaps the guy who thought the 45/70 was no good assumed one would ruin lots of meat . Shot damaged meat usually goes with high energy and high velocity and of course the average 45/70 loads have neither. Yes there are some pretty crazy 45/70 loads out there suitable for Ruger #1s and some other Marlin loads that are pretty stiff but one usually wouldn't use them for whitetail.

Archery is close range hunting too but thousands of people,do it each year.

This

But it will do the job. 

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Nope. Kills them just fine.

Wasn't it a 45-70 slug that some buffalo hunter fired from a mile away that killed the Chief of a bunch of Injuns attacking an isolated fort, like in the 1880s?    ... Some place called Adobe Walls, IIRC?

It was a .50 caliber, .50-90 most likely but possibly a .50-70.  IIRC it is only referred to as a "Big .50" so there is discussion in some circles what exactly a big .50 was.  The .50-90 only gives about 100 to 150 fps more than the .50-70 and the .50-70 is very similar in bullet weight and velocity to the .45-70 with the exception of the .45 caliber bullet having a better BC.

think flat trajectory

preaching to the choir....I've killed a lot of deer with 44mag revolver



checking back into this thread to see OP's pics of a freshly harvested deer ?????

I think 45/70 works just fine for deer.

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Was my brothers rifle. He sold it though, and I cussed him for it. That thing would put 5 shots into one big hole at 100 yards with those Hornady rounds.

I shot this one dead on in the middle of the chest and the bullet went in and exited between the spine and her left shoulder. Heart was mush along with a lung. She made it about 15 yards tried to jump a downed tree and faceplanted into the dirt snapping her neck

You need better, more intelligent friends.