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Posted: 3/25/2021 9:55:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Who's Ron?
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Posted: 3/26/2021 6:22:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who's Ron? Ron Allen of Allen Enginering. He makes the AEM-5 which is what the MK-12 series uses. He announced he was planning on retiring this year. He was hoping to have someone come take over but I’m haven’t heard anything. |
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Posted: 3/26/2021 7:50:02 AM EDT
[#3]
How are any of JK's products anywhere similar to an OPS/Allen suppressor?
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Posted: 3/26/2021 8:14:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How are any of JK's products anywhere similar to an OPS/Allen suppressor?  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/26/2021 10:32:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryThe OPS/Allen design isn't JUST a reflex. Simply buying a reflex type tube/mount doesn't make it said silencer. @NWRed If OP just wants a reflex, there are plenty of mounts and builds available for the Form1'r. However, he specifically mentioned Ron Allen so, I'm assuming, there's a reason. |
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Posted: 3/26/2021 9:26:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The OPS/Allen design isn't JUST a reflex. Simply buying a reflex type tube/mount doesn't make it said silencer. @NWRed If OP just wants a reflex, there are plenty of mounts and builds available for the Form1'r. However, he specifically mentioned Ron Allen so, I'm assuming, there's a reason. Correct, buying an empty tube and mount doesn't make it a suppressor. It makes it a muzzle attachment thingy, maybe a solvent trap, maybe a barrel extension, maybe a really shitty QD flash hider, but certainly not a suppressor. Your original question "How are any of JK's products anywhere similar to an OPS/Allen suppressor?" was answered. The link the OP posted was for the "OPS, INC COMPATIBLE BUILDERS KIT". Its compatible, meaning it would work with an OPs Inc mount and vice versa presumably. I would assume he's interested in building a similarly designed suppressor via form1 to mimic the OPs Inc offerings since OPs Inc is going out of business. I have no idea if he'll be successful, but that's irrelevant to your questions. If you want to split hairs thats it's "not really a OPs Inc can because its ONLY a reflex and not made by OPs Inc", thats great but I'll just ignore you. As for your other point, could you please post a list of all the reflex form1 options available with any links? Or maybe start a new post if you wanted to continue that discussion, I was unaware anyone offered a reflex style form1 kit until this thread. |
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Posted: 3/26/2021 9:42:52 PM EDT
[#7]
I recently discovered this form 1 mounting system. I’d prefer to buy a completed AEM-5 instead of going this route. The price is comparable once you get the baffles. I already own an AEM-5 but would like another in the future. I was looking for info at this time.
Dan |
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Posted: 3/26/2021 10:03:34 PM EDT
[#8]
DM used to make Griffin compatible reflex mounts.
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Posted: 3/27/2021 3:17:25 PM EDT
[#9]
@NWRed
You're not listening, just arguing. To simply define the OPS/Allen design as a reflex is an insult. Go study Oswald's patent and tell me where I'm going to find solvent trap parts to mimic it, beyond just the fact that it happens to have a reflex nature. If the OP wants an AE silencer, I'd suggest he either buy one, before they close (assuming they do) or get the proper machine tools to make the necessary parts. If he just wants a reflex he should say so and we can work from there. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:19:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I would assume he's interested in building a similarly designed suppressor via form1 to mimic the OPs Inc offerings since OPs Inc is going out of business. I have no idea if he'll be successful, but that's irrelevant to your questions. If you want to split hairs thats it's "not really a OPs Inc can because its ONLY a reflex and not made by OPs Inc", thats great but I'll just ignore you. Quoted: @NWRed You're not listening, just arguing. To simply define the OPS/Allen design as a reflex is an insult. Go study Oswald's patent and tell me where I'm going to find solvent trap parts to mimic it, beyond just the fact that it happens to have a reflex nature. If the OP wants an AE silencer, I'd suggest he either buy one, before they close (assuming they do) or get the proper machine tools to make the necessary parts. If he just wants a reflex he should say so and we can work from there. 
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:42:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Wow I never expected to create a pissing contest. I came here to ask a question and gain knowledge. I was never expecting a Form 1 can to have the same qualities as the AEM-5 I currently own.
Dan |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:46:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @NWRed You're not listening, just arguing. To simply define the OPS/Allen design as a reflex is an insult. Go study Oswald's patent and tell me where I'm going to find solvent trap parts to mimic it, beyond just the fact that it happens to have a reflex nature. If the OP wants an AE silencer, I'd suggest he either buy one, before they close (assuming they do) or get the proper machine tools to make the necessary parts. If he just wants a reflex he should say so and we can work from there. It’s a tube and a mount. Making the right baffles to mimic Sebergers work is on the builder. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:46:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow I never expected to create a pissing contest. I came here to ask a question and gain knowledge. I was never expecting a Form 1 can to have the same qualities as the AEM-5 I currently own. Dan Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow I never expected to create a pissing contest. I came here to ask a question and gain knowledge. I was never expecting a Form 1 can to have the same qualities as the AEM-5 I currently own. Dan You can absolutely make a form 1 silencer, that's identical to an OPS/Allen design. You're just not doing it with solvent trap parts. @NWRed I'm glad you can laugh at your own ignorance. Quoted: It’s a tube and a mount. Making the right baffles to mimic Sebergers work is on the builder. Yes. That's what I've been conveying. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 5:52:30 PM EDT
[#14]
That’s not inconsistent with what NWRed is saying either.
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Posted: 3/27/2021 8:10:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can absolutely make a form 1 silencer, that's identical to an OPS/Allen design. You're just not doing it with solvent trap parts. @NWRed I'm glad you can laugh at your own ignorance. Yes. That's what I've been conveying. For a guy who did exactly what I said you'd do 2 posts ago, I wouldn't go around throwing out insults on a technical forum, you're pretty predictable. Still waiting for your post with the numerous reflex form1 kits you said you knew of. The OPs basic question seems to have gone over your head and yet you wanted to dig deep into the technical aspects of the OPs Inc designs versus what the OP might be able to build that is SIMILAR to his other OPs Inc can. You wanted talk about the minutiae , with questions such as "how a OPs Inc compatible Form 1 kit has anything to do with OPs Inc ?" for example..... which on its face is pretty obvious. You seem to be a knowledgeable guy based on some of your other posts, but you may have missed the point with your replies attempting to school us all, when no one asked for an education on the subject. With that being said, I'm done with this discussion, I only posted the original screenshots because when the page loaded for me it took me halfway down and I missed the the fact the kit was marketed as a "OPS Inc compatible kit" the first time and thought maybe the same thing had happened to you and that you missed it also when you replied. Good luck in your future endeavors, dont bother tagging me in any future replies I wont get them. |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 8:38:32 AM EDT
[#16]
OP, there have been similar threads as to yours. You can go through and get more info there. They may have saved product links. You can also head over to the form1 boards. Plenty of info there and even those custom reflex mounts.
@NWRed And yet, contrary to your words, you did reply, twice. Me pointing out your ignorance isn't an insult. Just because JK says OPS compatible, doesn't mean it'll make what the OP may want. Same as putting a Plan B compatible mount on the silencer doesn't mean results will be identical to Q. It just means parts will fit. |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 8:45:26 AM EDT
[#17]
I doubt the OP even knows what Phil Seberger patented. He just wants a nice reflex can.
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Posted: 3/28/2021 9:48:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt the OP even knows what Phil Seberger patented. He just wants a nice reflex can. I have been following this thread for reasons. I think OP is in the boat I am. I want to build a Mod H, and want to have a can from JR (its not JK btw) but they have been sold out for some time. Most likely I will use Nick, or someone from the form 1 forums to recore it. I really don't care about cloning the internals if there is a more efficient stack that could be put in there. Does it work with the ops inc collar and brake? Yes. Can you put a more modern baffle stack in it? Yes, or try to mimic what Allen Eng put in it. Doesn't matter. You just need the 'reflex adapter' that works with the collar and brake. The rest is up to the imagination. https://jrmachinepro.com/ops-inc-compatible-builders-kit/ |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 10:56:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been following this thread for reasons. I think OP is in the boat I am. I want to build a Mod H, and want to have a can from JR (its not JK btw) but they have been sold out for some time. Most likely I will use Nick, or someone from the form 1 forums to recore it. I really don't care about cloning the internals if their is a more efficient stack that could be put in there. Does it work with the ops inc collar and brake? Yes. Can you put a more modern baffle stack in it? Yes, or try to mimic what Allen Eng put in it. Doesn't matter. You just need the 'reflex adapter' that works with the collar and brake. The rest is up to the imagination. https://jrmachinepro.com/ops-inc-compatible-builders-kit/ This |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 4:23:35 PM EDT
[#20]
The Seberger baffle stack soldiers in in Surefire cans.
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Posted: 4/1/2021 9:55:18 AM EDT
[#21]
i was going to explore this route. it seems expensive at first, but the mount adapter is the expensive part. I've gotten quotes on just the adapter and i bring my own tube and it was a lot, a couple hundred just for the mount, so getting a tube and end cap is a deal.
but if you can find an AEM5, even at full retail, it will be more cost effective than building up this kit. there are rumors, i don't know if it's been confirmed or not, that another company may pick up building the cans under another brand. Really all Ron Allen needs to do is license the design and sit back and collect. |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 5:37:20 PM EDT
[#22]
If OP, or anyone else, is interested in Allen Engineering / OPS inc. suppressors, that’s cool; you are not alone. Here is one of the longest threads in the Form 4 suppressor sub forum to read up on their history:
 https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Ops-Inc-Allen-Engineering-Picture-and-Discussion-Thread/20-445848/ This company(s) produced both reflex-type and traditional cans. Again - that’s cool if you want to copy their design, maybe you were issued one, etc. no need to justify wanting what you want. I will add: reflex designs have rarely, if ever, shown better suppression over non-reflex designs. The extra volume behind the muzzle just cannot be exploited the way you could with non-reflex designs. About the only benefit you are likely to see is reduced back pressure. But again- don’t let that deter you if you are an Allen / Ops enthusiast. |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 6:12:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will add: reflex designs have rarely, if ever, shown better suppression over non-reflex designs. The extra volume behind the muzzle just cannot be exploited the way you could with non-reflex designs. About the only benefit you are likely to see is reduced back pressure. But again- don't let that deter you if you are an Allen / Ops enthusiast. |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 6:54:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If OP, or anyone else, is interested in Allen Engineering / OPS inc. suppressors, that's cool; you are not alone. Here is one of the longest threads in the Form 4 suppressor sub forum to read up on their history: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Ops-Inc-Allen-Engineering-Picture-and-Discussion-Thread/20-445848/ This company(s) produced both reflex-type and traditional cans. Again - that's cool if you want to copy their design, maybe you were issued one, etc. no need to justify wanting what you want. I will add: reflex designs have rarely, if ever, shown better suppression over non-reflex designs. The extra volume behind the muzzle just cannot be exploited the way you could with non-reflex designs. About the only benefit you are likely to see is reduced back pressure. But again- don't let that deter you if you are an Allen / Ops enthusiast. OP: I hope you make a build thread if you end up following through! |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 11:58:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI will add: reflex designs have rarely, if ever, shown better suppression over non-reflex designs. The extra volume behind the muzzle just cannot be exploited the way you could with non-reflex designs. About the only benefit you are likely to see is reduced back pressure. But again- don’t let that deter you if you are an Allen / Ops enthusiast. I don’t know man, a buddy of mine had an AAC SPR-M4 and I have an AAC M4-2k and his SPR M4 sounded damn good compared to my M4-2k. If I could find an spr-m4 today, I would snatch it up. I have a miter mount just in case I ever do find the can available. I was going to get the 762 miter mount when it was in stock at Midway in case the 762 version popped up somewhere like GB. The SCAR20 uses a reflex style can too. The Surefire FA762SV. I think reflex cans are awesome. I believe CZ designed one for the Scorpion. |
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Posted: 4/6/2021 10:15:27 PM EDT
[#26]
this guy did. look at his other vids for more of the build and testing
 Homemade Reflex Design and Build |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 8:45:42 AM EDT
[#27]
I ended up with 4 reflex cans based on the DM use of Griffin adapters and they all functioned well. There are a couple videos on my youtube channel, the never really caught on much but were a great option. My last one was 9.4oz only added a few inches overall, and was quite enough shot timers couldn't reliably pick it when I used in 3gun. DM is to producing parts, although the tube adapters are made by multiple companies, and the reflex mounts are being group produced on another board.
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 12:00:13 PM EDT
[#28]
I have no reason to believe that reflex cans, and I own four, are quieter. But I think they have less backpressure.
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Posted: 4/9/2021 2:53:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I ended up with 4 reflex cans based on the DM use of Griffin adapters and they all functioned well. There are a couple videos on my youtube channel, the never really caught on much but were a great option. My last one was 9.4oz only added a few inches overall, and was quite enough shot timers couldn't reliably pick it when I used in 3gun.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9AILLCVjMo |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 5:39:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been out of touch for a bit, why is Diversified's website and ATF website? https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Diversified-Machine-raided/55-519447/ |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 11:56:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote History That sucks. I love my DM kit. |
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Posted: 4/10/2021 12:07:41 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow I never expected to create a pissing contest. I came here to ask a question and gain knowledge. I was never expecting a Form 1 can to have the same qualities as the AEM-5 I currently own. Dan Welcome to the suppressor forum. I honestly don’t know why people are such assholes in here, but it’s been that way for a long time. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 11:47:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to the suppressor forum. I honestly don’t know why people are such assholes in here, but it’s been that way for a long time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wow I never expected to create a pissing contest. I came here to ask a question and gain knowledge. I was never expecting a Form 1 can to have the same qualities as the AEM-5 I currently own. Dan Welcome to the suppressor forum. I honestly don’t know why people are such assholes in here, but it’s been that way for a long time. Form 1 can stuff and NV.... yup. |
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