User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/18/2021 2:13:37 PM EDT
Hello,
The form 1 fliegerfaust is coming together for my next book. Due to us law, I’m limited on rocket style ammunition, I’m still working out a Gyojet style round that I could use I’m still using electrical ignition however I’m going to use a battery to provide the voltage to a ematch igniter. It’s going to be considered a volley fire gun so all the barrels should go off around the same time. I’d like to find someone who can do slomo video too Here’s the style of paint I’m going to try and replicate  Attached File Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/18/2021 2:20:07 PM EDT
[#1]
You do some interesting form 1s haha. What ammo restrictions are you referring to?
I know a lot of people said rpg-7 ammo wasn't possible without each round being a DD, but I don't think they read the DD definition clearly |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/18/2021 2:27:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Are you going to recreate the speedloader as well?
 Attached FileWhile I don't have as much dedication to an obscure failed weapon reproduction as you do, I like your dedication and determination |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/18/2021 3:08:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do some interesting form 1s haha. What ammo restrictions are you referring to? I know a lot of people said rpg-7 ammo wasn't possible without each round being a DD, but I don't think they read the DD definition clearly I’m unsure if a destructive device oversides rocketry laws, whether they get classed as a high power rocket since they are mainly made of metal. I asked a couple people who sell/make destructive devices and they were unsure. I’m guessing if I copy the Gyrojet but in 20mm then I should be fine. Making accurate/ reliable propellant for them another challenge. If I make rocket ammunition then I will replicate the speed loader of the originals |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 3:38:58 AM EDT
[#4]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 11:24:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryNeat. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 12:11:39 PM EDT
[#6]
If you ever need some lathe work or CNC runs there are plenty of people here who would jump at the chance to help.
I'm still waiting eagerly to buy your book - I just won't shop with Amazon. Keep up the great work! ETA: And if I can be so bold - here's a reminder should you care to make more than the 20mm B version. A six barrel 30 mm prototype was also constructed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 5:47:14 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm pretty sure it's the 'rocket motor having a charge of more than four ounces' clause in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(f) that makes the PG-7 projectile a DD.
Having said that, not all rounds for the RPG-7 have a rocket motor, and you could also make a non-authentic projectile that meet the propellant weight requirement for the motor. The PG7 has a pretty complex motor, though, and I would be surprised if you could do it for less than $100 per round. It would be a sweet flex, though. I think what keeps people from making live fire PG7s is that nobody want's to build a rocket in their garage and put it next to their head and shoot it. What's the issue with rocket ammo for the Fliegerfaust? If you are under 4 ounces of rocket propellant, and under 1/4 ounce for the spotting charge, it's not a DD. I'm not a Fliegerfaust expert or anything, but my understanding is that the 'speed loader' is a magazine...it locks into the back and reloads/holds all of the rounds at once (is fired with the 'speed loader' locked to the back of the launcher). Having been around a few similar launchers, I would hazard a guess that the firing mechanism is piezo-electric, like the US bazooka and a number of other launchers from that era. The electrical contact would be made when the cartridge (speed loader) is locked into the back of the launcher. A mechanical spring and striker strikes the PZ element to make electricity to fire the gun. Since proper piezo-electric would probably present some manufacturing challenges, a battery could be hidden inside the small compartment forward of the spring/striker to function in its place. It should be a cool project. Keep us updated on your progress. Also, don't use model rocket ignitors if you want it to work (at least not Estes ignitors). |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 6:11:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty sure it's the 'rocket motor having a charge of more than four ounces' clause in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(f) that makes the PG-7 projectile a DD. Having said that, not all rounds for the RPG-7 have a rocket motor, and you could also make a non-authentic projectile that meet the weight requirement for the motor. The PG7 has a pretty complex motor, though, and I would be surprised if you could do it for less than $100 per round. It would be a sweet flex, though. I think what keeps people from making live fire PG7s is that nobody want's to build a rocket in their garage and put it next to their head and shoot it. What's the issue with rocket ammo for the fliegerfaust? If you are under 4 ounces of rocket propellant, and under 1/4 ounce for the spotting charge, it's not a DD. That only applies to explosive, incendiary, or poison gas projectiles. You have to read the whole definition, not just half the sentence  Jonathan's rocketry law comments have me researching that topic now. And they definitely say that a rocket comprised of mostly metal is considers a non-ametuer rocket and requires a certification from a nationally recognized rocketry association. Anyone want to start the DD rocket association with me? Lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 6:22:25 PM EDT
[#9]
...but a 1/4 oz spotting charge would be an explosive round.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 8:56:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...but a 1/4 oz spotting charge would be an explosive round. Yep. I was more referring to a previous thread where many people said pg-7s were DDs because of the rocket propellant and pg-2s are not. But as long as its just a chalk or inert warhead, it doesn't matter. Sean at TXMGO/Ordnance Lab even stated that any rocket with more than 4oz of propellant is a DD in one of their recent videos. So I wanted to get the clarification out there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 10:23:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Edit:changed the design
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 10:41:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: . Also, don't use model rocket ignitors if you want it to work (at least not Estes ignitors). You ain't kidding. I volunteered for a rocket launch event with a big group of kids and we had a lot of bad igniters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 11:01:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Nice! You going to do any preliminary test fires to see if a BP recoilless cannon will cause enough G's to arm those 14.5mm projos?
A single barrel in a vice may suffice as a test fixture |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2021 11:51:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice! You going to do any preliminary test fires to see if a BP recoilless cannon will cause enough G's to arm those 14.5mm projos? A single barrel in a vice may suffice as a test fixture This raises a question: is there a sketch or print or - dare I hope - a cutaway of those projectiles? Without such a thing when they're gone they're gone. If I have that I can start recreating them. Obviously any number of designs would work but ideally copying directly would allow for the various uses to continue without modification. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 1:03:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You ain't kidding. I volunteered for a rocket launch event with a big group of kids and we had a lot of bad igniters. What would you guys recommend for igniters? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 1:05:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice! You going to do any preliminary test fires to see if a BP recoilless cannon will cause enough G's to arm those 14.5mm projos? A single barrel in a vice may suffice as a test fixture There’s a thread here from years ago that discussed how fast they need to go to be armed, I’ll have to go find it That would be a good idea to figure out regardless |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 2:32:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would you guys recommend for igniters? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You ain't kidding. I volunteered for a rocket launch event with a big group of kids and we had a lot of bad igniters. What would you guys recommend for igniters? Regular orange ignitors from ebay?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 6:38:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would you guys recommend for igniters? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You ain't kidding. I volunteered for a rocket launch event with a big group of kids and we had a lot of bad igniters. What would you guys recommend for igniters? I can't, my only experience has ever been with Estes. I'm sure there are alternatives, I just don't know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 9:44:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would you guys recommend for igniters? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You ain't kidding. I volunteered for a rocket launch event with a big group of kids and we had a lot of bad igniters. What would you guys recommend for igniters? Make e-matches. Failing that? Old school tiny Christmas lights. Take the bulb out and file a small line around the top as though you're opening an ampuole. Fill with FFFFg and top with a square of aluminum foil. Finish with a square of clear packing tape to finish. Apply voltage - even a common 9v battery works - and pop. A good gout of flame for a relatively extended time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 10:17:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would you guys recommend for igniters? I was going to say electric matches, but this video dropped in my Youtube feed yesterday:  Rocket Ignition System On Steroids! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 10:54:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This raises a question: is there a sketch or print or - dare I hope - a cutaway of those projectiles? Without such a thing when they're gone they're gone. If I have that I can start recreating them. Obviously any number of designs would work but ideally copying directly would allow for the various uses to continue without modification. We have quite a few diagrams and cutaway pictures in the "project boom" thread |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 12:00:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have quite a few diagrams and cutaway pictures in the "project boom" thread Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This raises a question: is there a sketch or print or - dare I hope - a cutaway of those projectiles? Without such a thing when they're gone they're gone. If I have that I can start recreating them. Obviously any number of designs would work but ideally copying directly would allow for the various uses to continue without modification. We have quite a few diagrams and cutaway pictures in the "project boom" thread I blame my at-times oblivious nature for missing that. Thank you! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 12:02:18 PM EDT
[#23]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2021 12:12:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Oh. Oh my.
Talk about rudimentary! I bet those are super fun to ship. The setback safety is just a friction fit tube. One minor creep spring and otherwise a dead simple PD fuze. Any word on the filler? I suppose with a given primer in place I could use nearly anything that won't easily detonate under acceleration - and with a 1/4oz limit the hotter the better. ETA: That's what it reminds me of. An inverted and finless wurfgranate P326 for the leuchtpistole. Without the safety rod/ball and with a simple sleeve type safety. There's room for improvement there. I'd feel a lot better about these with a proper safety! I wonder what W231 or similar would do in place of primary HE as a filler - assuming enough confinement. Perhaps a turned aluminum housing for that. Since the projectile body itself is lead then if I recreate these but with a different body material then there's some weight to play with and changes can be made. So much to consider! In any case I do apologize for the tangent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2021 1:07:10 AM EDT
[#25]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/29/2021 9:34:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Wunderbare!!!
Kudos on the super cool project! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2021 6:08:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Hello, The form 1 fliegerfaust is coming together for my next book. Due to us law, I’m limited on rocket style ammunition, I’m still working out a Gyojet style round that I could use in this design, however I used a much thicker barrel to be able to use black powder to launch projectiles in case rockets are not a option. It’s going to be considerably heavier, like 40lbs unless I can find someone locally will to reduce the OD of my barrels. I’m still using electrical ignition however I’m going to use a battery to provide the voltage to a model rocket igniter. For a black powder round, I was going to 3d print fin stabilizated sleeves for the 14.5mm exploding round so there’s at least some effect down range for marking hits. It’s going to be considered a volley fire gun so all the barrels should go off around the same time. I’d like to find someone who can do slomo video as well Here’s my drawings and barrels, just waiting on ammunition and other parts to arrive https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/473021/FF1E9E2F-85AC-4975-9DF0-31DC906A397F_jpe-1830745.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/473021/7F409DFE-7065-4DBC-83F4-AAE312956E18_jpe-1830750.JPG I’m going to print something like this for the sleeve ammunition https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/473021/8CF35F10-B941-4079-8376-A3B5B90D6F01_jpe-1830752.JPG Here’s the style of paint I’m going to try and replicate https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/473021/35493BD4-E785-4C30-90E8-62946979B18E_jpe-1830756.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/473021/81722EAE-59D8-4395-80A1-79D3CBA761B8_jpe-1830757.JPG If you're using black powder, you could easily do this without needing a form 1 at all. ETA well...ok..not exact reproduction though. But a non-NFA separate loading design would be awesome. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2021 8:56:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're using black powder, you could easily do this without needing a form 1 at all. ETA well...ok..not exact reproduction though. But a non-NFA separate loading design would be awesome. I decided to just do gyrojet inspired rockets and no longer doing black powder |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2021 9:39:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Tag, this should be interesting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2021 5:09:50 PM EDT
[#30]
 Attached File Attached FileSwapped out my barrels for much thinner ones since I am using rocket motors only, the remaining two barrels should have arrived while I was on vacation, all of the barrel belts have arrrived, going to be ordering the remaining metal parts next week. The first barrels I bought I am going to turn down and use as reusable rocket bodies. I have most of the materials for propellant and atf approved ematchs |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/10/2021 9:46:27 PM EDT
[#31]
 Another batch of parts arrived, more coming in the next week |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/12/2021 1:03:47 AM EDT
[#32]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2021 1:44:48 AM EDT
[#33]
 Fliegerfaust Project Progress 2  Ignition Test Quick update |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2021 9:22:48 AM EDT
[#34]
You're a nut and I love you for it!
And please - please - offer books not through Amazon. Hell I'll pay more just to avoid them even if you're buying the books from them and selling them for profit through a third party. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/17/2021 11:27:04 PM EDT
[#35]
 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2021 7:52:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Really nice job
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/16/2021 3:11:05 AM EDT
[#37]
    Really happy with my propellant grains and they are now ready for assembling the rockets and testing firing when the weather gets better |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 7:53:51 PM EDT
[#38]
 Fliegerfaust 20mm Rocket Test Fire (Gyrojet Style Rocket) |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/23/2022 11:19:39 PM EDT
[#39]
That was badass! Looks like the projos stabilized, congrats.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/26/2022 2:49:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was badass! Looks like the projos stabilized, congrats. Thank you! Although had some failures, my main concerns that the nozzle was not going to work however the design has been proven so time to address the ignition issue |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2022 3:18:05 AM EDT
[#41]
 Firing a Fliegerfaust ( Rocket Launcher ) |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2022 9:41:37 PM EDT
[#42]
I really enjoyed seeing that testing progression. Is there a book coming out in this (bought the Panzerfaust book off Amazon, mostly as a collectible in its own right).?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/22/2022 11:50:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really enjoyed seeing that testing progression. Is there a book coming out in this (bought the Panzerfaust book off Amazon, mostly as a collectible in its own right).? Yes just have to finish the testing section and it’s off to formatting |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2022 4:07:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Never stops being awesome. BTW what did you use for rocket fuel?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/25/2022 12:42:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never stops being awesome. BTW what did you use for rocket fuel? I made APCP fuel common in advanced high power rocketry |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File