First Kit build - Kibler Colonial - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First Kit build - Kibler Colonial (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/11/2022 7:59:56 PM EDT

I ordered a Kibler Colonial Rifle kit today. Went with a fancy maple stock in 50 cal. This will be my first muzzleloader kit build and my first flintlock. I shot a fair bit of percussion cap guns growing up so I'm not totally new to the game.

I haven't completely decided how I want to finish this kit but my initial idea is to use finishes that are as original as possible. I want it to look like an as-new rifle that would have been bought in the 1760s-1780s. With that in mind, what finishes were traditionally used on American firearms in that period? Initial research seems to indicate barrels were left in the white or sometimes browned, locks seemed to often be left in the white, brass was polished. Am I off on this assessment or is that accurate? Additionally, what wood stains and finishes were typical in the time period?

This thread will also serve as my build thread unless I take too long and it goes to the archives.

Posted: 4/11/2022 9:47:19 PM EDT

[#1]

Looking forward to your build.

Also, check this out:

Testing Various Stains on Maple - Iron Nitrate and Dye Stains

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQjASsPC6wo

Posted: 4/12/2022 12:08:13 AM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
Looking forward to your build.

Also, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQjASsPC6wo

View Quote

I've been working my way through his channel but hadn't made it to that video yet.

That pretty much settles it though, iron nitrate looks great on maple. I'll probably cover it with Chambers traditional oil finish.

Posted: 4/12/2022 1:00:14 AM EDT

[#3]

Good choice on the Kibler kit, that might be my next rifle choice.
I’m planning on using the ferric nitrate as well on my full stock Hawken flintlock. It really brings out the curl in the maple.
As far as the final finish the tried and true oil finish seems to be a good choice.

Posted: 4/12/2022 7:44:11 AM EDT

[#4]

With fancy maple I'd go with aquafortis, nothing makes curley maple pop like that stuff does.

Posted: 4/12/2022 9:21:04 AM EDT

[#5]

OST.

I was going to use a Kibler colonial kit to produce a contemporary version of this gun, which just this morning I'm discussing potentially loaning to a museum exhibit for a couple of years. A rare rifle surviving from that period. .62 cal. Salty piece.

I do have a kibler kit squirrel gun and really like it. I did not assemble it, however.

Posted: 4/12/2022 9:31:32 AM EDT

[#6]

I have a Kibler Colonial kit in .54 with extra fancy maple that was supposed to be my winter project this past year but I haven't had time to work on it. I'm definitely going to use iron nitrate when I finish it, but I'm also debating using Jim's tannic acid treatment in addition to the iron nitrate.

Posted: 4/13/2022 8:17:31 PM EDT

[#7]

Kibler kits are excellent. Be prepared to do some metal polishing and some filing.

Posted: 4/13/2022 10:34:49 PM EDT

[#8]

I haven't started it yet but got my fancy wood .54 Colonial last July. Absolutely fantastic quality. Doing business with Kibler was a pleasure.

Only glitch was with the dickheads in the local post office: refused to deliver it and didn't want to allow me to pick it up! Reason: "that homemade box thing is dangerous... someone could get a splinter". Went to pick it up. Told them "okay, I'll take it now". Postmaster said "you're not getting it"!! I have no idea what they intended to do with it. I was so pissed I couldn't see straight. Literally grabbed it and ran. Got home and started filing complaints (regional Supervising Postmaster, Postal Inspectors, elected officials etc). End result: nobody did shit.

Kibler stated that they had never had a problem with delivery of their signature boxes.

I'm considering another Colonial someday but gonna ask Kibler to cover it in tape to appease these postal assholes.

Posted: 4/14/2022 1:04:30 AM EDT

[#9]

I can believe that about the post office. My Dad was a woodworker and he would often build elaborate wood boxes to ship things in.(I still have some of them) with tight fitting sliding lids and such. The post office gave him a hard time once, so he started wrapping each one with brown paper.

Posted: 4/19/2022 10:05:03 PM EDT

[#10]

You can get Aqua-Fortis from Track of the Wolf for the stock. This is curly maple on a knife I re-handled.

Attached File

Posted: 4/21/2022 4:35:29 PM EDT

[#11]

I've ordered Iron nitrate stain from Kibler's website and Chamber's traditional oil stock finish to seal the stock. I also ordered some Laurel Mountain Forge barrel brown but I'm not 100% committed to going this route for the barrel.

I want a barrel finish that would be generally period-correct. The goal is to make the rifle look 10-15 years old and moderately used. I think I can achieve this effect with the LMF barrel brown if I scrub with scotch-brite between coats and don't put too many layers on. I may just leave the barrel in the white and let it patina naturally.

Posted: 4/21/2022 10:09:40 PM EDT

[#12]

I've seen a nice patina from applying cold blue and then rubbing it back to a nice light gray color. I've been thinking of trying that on mine.

Posted: 4/30/2022 10:28:40 AM EDT

[#13]

Finished my .54 Colonial Extra Fancy Maple up ~6 months ago. Was supposed to be a winter long project but I got it done in 2 weeks. Kept if pretty simple with no carving and a little rough here and there (not sanding to a polished surface...).

Posted: 4/30/2022 1:05:13 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

View Quote

Thats a beautiful rifle. What finishing processes did you use on the stock and barrel?

Posted: 4/30/2022 4:37:29 PM EDT

[#15]

Iron nitrate or aqua Fortis on the wood, with a hand rubbed varnish. Sand paper in that time period did exist but was hard to get, cabinet scrapers were the norm--and a well sharpened cabinet scraper will rival anything you can do with sandpaper. Barrels and locks in that period were most often left in the white and cleaned every now and then with brick dust and emery powder. Barrels were sometimes fire blued by burying in charcoal and heated to around 700-800 degrees. Until they got the process perfected,the Williamsburg gun shop rust-blued barrels saying that rust bluing came closest to the look of fire bluing. Browning didn't get popular until the late 1790's or so. The brown barrels you see on the the 1750 to 1780 rifles is natural oxidation of the white or blued finish. I prefer rust bluing rifles I make from that time period. Brass was filed with progressively finer cut files with the teeth filled with chalk, the polished with Emory powder

Posted: 4/30/2022 5:21:57 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thats a beautiful rifle. What finishing processes did you use on the stock and barrel?

View Quote

Everything I used came from Kiblers website. Iron nitrate for the "stain". Laurel mountain forge permalyn sealer for the oil finish. I did sparingly use a bit of bone black here and there, you don't really notice it though. You can use his tannic acid if you want the stock a darker black on the burl. I rubbed a dowel on the stock (after a bit of sanding and water) to burnish the stock and close the grain. You can also make a scraper pretty easily. Watch all of Kiblers Youtube videos as he shows you how to do all of this. Let the stock sit for a couple of weeks before you start work to let it accumulate unless you are Jims neighbor. The barrel was Larrels brown and degreaser after draw filing (purchase a quality draw file). Jax brown darkener for the brass. I may put some carving in the wood down the road and also sand/file down the lock a bit more, especially the lock plate. I also coned the barrel since I plan to hunt with it. The most difficult part for me was the barrel tabs and the ramrod. I still have some sanding/filing to do on the ramrod to get it to seat all the way...

Posted: 4/30/2022 11:19:04 PM EDT

[#17]

Thanks for the tips.

I've been working my way through all his videos and taking notes. There is hours of info on his YouTube page alone.

I ordered iron nitrate and LMF barrel brown from Kibler's site, but decided to go with Chamber's oil finish for the stock.

I'm at about 2.5 weeks into a 6-10 week wait so I've got some more time to watch videos and read up on the build process.

Posted: 5/9/2022 11:39:23 AM EDT

[#18]

Today is the 4 week mark since ordering. Kibler says 6-10 weeks lead time so I've got some more time to practice patience.

All my tools are in. I bought 1/8" and 1/4" chisels, a flat mill file, a half round mill file, and then I borrowed some wood clamps from my dad.

I settled how I'm going to finish the lock and stock but am still undecided on the barrel. I'm going to use iron nitrate and oil finish on the stock and keep the lock in the white. I might do some sanding and polishing on the lock depending on how rough it looks. For the barrel I can't decide between white, brown, or blued. I really like the look of a file finished in the white barrel. I'm concerned about how shiny it will be when shooting in the sunlight. Blued looks good too but a rust blue at home sounds intimidating, and it's less historically accurate. A browned finish sounds easy and durable but in a lot of pictures I think it looks too brown and dull.

Posted: 5/9/2022 6:33:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Today is the 4 week mark since ordering. Kibler says 6-10 weeks lead time so I've got some more time to practice patience.

All my tools are in. I bought 1/8" and 1/4" chisels, a flat mill file, a half round mill file, and then I borrowed some wood clamps from my dad.

I settled how I'm going to finish the lock and stock but am still undecided on the barrel. I'm going to use iron nitrate and oil finish on the stock and keep the lock in the white. I might do some sanding and polishing on the lock depending on how rough it looks. For the barrel I can't decide between white, brown, or blued. I really like the look of a file finished in the white barrel. I'm concerned about how shiny it will be when shooting in the sunlight. Blued looks good too but a rust blue at home sounds intimidating, and it's less historically accurate. A browned finish sounds easy and durable but in a lot of pictures I think it looks too brown and dull.

View Quote

Polish the lock to at least 300-400 grit, or with brick dust or emory if you want to be more historical in you finishing process. The lock is a finer blasted finish as it comes. The barrel will probably need some light polishing as well. Leave all steel in the white and brass polished bright. Let everything mellow together through age and usage.

Posted: 5/12/2022 1:48:11 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
You can get Aqua-Fortis from Track of the Wolf for the stock. This is curly maple on a knife I re-handled. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/8109/IMG_2279_jpg-2355158.JPG

View Quote

Nice looking knife

I used the same stuff on the knives I "made" (finished from tempered blanks) for my groomsmen
Worked great!

Posted: 5/12/2022 2:25:39 PM EDT

[#21]

Here's my kibler mountain rifle, .32 cal. Fun and accurate little rifle.

Posted: 5/12/2022 2:27:20 PM EDT

[#22]

Posted: 5/13/2022 10:39:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Sweet rifle. Just posted my SMR. Kibler makes a fine kit.

Posted: 5/16/2022 1:17:58 PM EDT

[#24]

Week 5 update: my kit is ready and should ship out today. Hopefully it gets here by this weekend so I can get to work on it.

Posted: 5/18/2022 10:15:51 PM EDT

[#25]

Posted: 5/19/2022 10:22:30 AM EDT

[#26]

The kit got delivered yesterday and I got to work on it.

I mostly fitted the barrel, the trigger plate, the butt plate, and I started on the trigger guard.

I'm not sure the barrel is inletted fully. The tang fits perfectly and the bottom of the barrel has good contact but the breech face has a tiny gap from the wood.

Attached File

Posted: 5/19/2022 11:21:46 PM EDT

[#27]

Day two. I did a little more work on the barrel fit, I'm still not completely convinced I'm happy with how the breech face interfaces with the stock. I pinned the trigger guard into the stock, and then spent a couple hours filing on the butt plate.

Attached File

Posted: 5/21/2022 12:38:36 PM EDT

[#28]

Some quick parts fitting this morning. Fit the front sight, the rear sight, the ramrod thimbles, and the front cap.

Attached File

Posted: 5/22/2022 1:30:38 AM EDT

[#29]

I made some good progress this afternoon. I got everything fitted, pinned the end cap, and sanded the ramrod.

Attached File

Posted: 5/22/2022 1:36:39 AM EDT

[#30]

Next up I stained the stock. The iron nitrate was unnerving, it dried very green-blue and I wasn't sure it was going to change color properly. I was pleasantly surprised by the color after hitting it with the heat gun.

The stock with fresh iron nitrate:

Attached File

Attached File

After the heat gun:

Attached File

Posted: 5/22/2022 1:39:20 AM EDT

[#31]

And finally I put on the first coat of oil. I was completely blown away by the curl that came out when the oil was applied.

Attached File

Posted: 5/22/2022 8:06:35 PM EDT

[#32]

I spent the day finishing up with a few more coats of oil finish and a bunch of metal finishing. I ended up draw filing then sanding the barrel to 320 grit. The brass was wet sanded to 2000 grit and then polished with brasso. I used a dremel with scotchbrite-style pads to sand the small parts, this was way easier than doing it manually. It went together pretty well, except one of the ramrod thimbles didn't seat exactly the same due to wood swelling and its pin missed the exit hole. It's not catastrophic but I'll probably need to re-finish that spot somehow. The ramrod doesn't fit anymore either, I'll need to sand that down some more and re-finish it as well.

Attached File

Posted: 5/25/2022 3:32:23 PM EDT

[#33]

Posted: 5/26/2022 7:53:14 PM EDT

[#34]

Very nice I can't wait to get my kit next year

Posted: 5/31/2022 11:41:02 PM EDT

[#35]

It appears to shoot pretty well. This is a .490" ball with a .015" patch over 70 grains of FFFg at 25 yards.

Attached File

I'm not a very steady shot with it. I think its a combination of the hang fire effect that flintlocks have combined with a small reaction to the flash of the pan. Even off a rest I seem to have a tendency to pull shots low right. Because of this I'm not sure which load actually works the best and which I have flyers on.

I'm hesitant to make adjustments to the sights until I'm confident in my shooting. They're set about an inch right of center and about 4 inches low at 25 yards right now.

Posted: 6/1/2022 1:49:50 PM EDT

[#36]

Awesome build! I'm hopeful he produces a fowling piece at some point. I have a Pedersoli Brown Bess. I'd love to have a 20 gauge with a quicker lock.

Posted: 6/1/2022 10:13:16 PM EDT

[#37]

Looking great!

Posted: 6/14/2022 10:25:22 AM EDT

[#38]

I just received my Colonial with extra fancy maple. Everything about it is really nice-even the box it came in which I'm trying to figure out how to repurpose.

Here's my dilemma: I am anal about rust prevention on every single piece of metal I own. How do I get comfortable with leaving the barrel and lock in the white? Or do I just have to accept that it will bother me and just keep an eye on them? How do you maintain that steel, long term?

Posted: 6/14/2022 10:33:58 AM EDT

[#39]

I went with the in-the-white look for mine. In the relative short term it's easy to wipe it down after shooting and get it looking new again. I've shot it about 50 times over three range trips and only the lock parts seem to have any visible patina developing. Granted I'm in a very low humidity environment so it's easy to avoid rust.

Long term steel in the white is going to rust and patina. That is inevitable. If you want a smooth consistent look long term you're going to need to finish it some way.

Another thing to factor in is the brass. I went with a high polish on my brass and it tarnishes very easily. The sweat from my hands darkened the grip and the end cap. The end cap especially gets stained by patch lube and cleaning solution during and after shooting. The good news is it cleans up quickly with some brasso. But do understand that it takes some upkeep to look as nice as it does when you first finish it.

Posted: 7/2/2022 2:33:59 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
I just received my Colonial with extra fancy maple. Everything about it is really nice-even the box it came in which I'm trying to figure out how to repurpose.

Here's my dilemma: I am anal about rust prevention on every single piece of metal I own. How do I get comfortable with leaving the barrel and lock in the white? Or do I just have to accept that it will bother me and just keep an eye on them? How do you maintain that steel, long term?

View Quote

Get over the OCD about rust prevention. Over time with use the bright metal will go from bright, to dull, then to gray and eventually an odd brown color. In a hundred or so years the barrel and exposed steel will be a darker brown. Likewise, with the brass it will continue to darken until it looks a golden-brown color. It's just part of the charm of these types of firearms.

Another thing to consider is that colonial era and early Federal era firearms often did have at least some carving on the wood, even if just a little. Even some military muskets had some minimal carving around the tangs.

Posted: 7/4/2022 3:40:16 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
I just received my Colonial with extra fancy maple. Everything about it is really nice-even the box it came in which I'm trying to figure out how to repurpose.

Here's my dilemma: I am anal about rust prevention on every single piece of metal I own. How do I get comfortable with leaving the barrel and lock in the white? Or do I just have to accept that it will bother me and just keep an eye on them? How do you maintain that steel, long term?

View Quote

On a Chambers rifle, I left the lock in the white. I polished it heavily, and simply keeping a light coat of oil keeps the rust away. I used coldblue on the barrel, and as expected, the finish has worn a bit - leaving a nice warm gray finish.

Out of curiosity, when did you order your rifle? (I ordered a Kibler Colonial in .58, with Extra Fancy Maple in mid March and still haven't received it.)

Posted: 7/4/2022 3:44:28 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

On a Chambers rifle, I left the lock in the white. I polished it heavily, and simply keeping a light coat of oil keeps the rust away. I used coldblue on the barrel, and as expected, the finish has worn a bit - leaving a nice warm gray finish.

Out of curiosity, when did you order your rifle? (I ordered a Kibler Colonial in .58, with Extra Fancy Maple in mid March and still haven't received it.)

View Quote

Feb 20, shipped June 9.

Posted: 7/4/2022 3:49:30 PM EDT

[#43]

Because this thread is still getting bumped I'll add this. Took the Colonial out on Saturday for some Independence Day shooting.

Attached File

Blackpowder is cool

Posted: 7/5/2022 2:20:41 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

View Quote

By damn! That is a fine piece of wood. Very nice.

Posted: 7/5/2022 9:20:59 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
Because this thread is still getting bumped I'll add this. Took the Colonial out on Saturday for some Independence Day shooting.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/276110/20220702_093930_exported_5498__2__jpg-2441632.JPG

Blackpowder is cool

View Quote

Great photo! I’d love to put together one of Kibbler’s southern mountain .32 caliber kits!

Posted: 7/22/2022 10:43:30 AM EDT

[#46]

I'm going to order a kit in January but I can't decide between the new Woodsrunner in .50 or the Colonial in .54, with extra fancy maple.

Posted: 7/29/2022 8:51:55 PM EDT

[#47]

You fellows are putting together some fine looking rifle guns! I suspect Mr. Kibler has hands full now, but I second the motion on a smoothbore offering. I've got the bug for a Fusil De Chasse, but there are many fine options out there.

On rust prevention, it's a little unsettling to do it, but I like the Hershel House treatment of boiling your steel parts in dilute bleach. I had a little trouble neutralizing it, rust wanted to grow in the nooks and crannies. But I hit on the idea of heating the parts gently over the forge, then rubbing in beeswax. Personally, I like the looks of it, and it has been quite rust resistant.

IMG_3380 copy by Jim QRB, on Flickr

IMG_3531 by Jim QRB, on Flickr

Not the greatest picture, but I like my little scratch built .36 flinter!

Posted: 3/5/2023 8:18:38 AM EDT

[#48]

Resurrecting the thread...
Just finished up my Kibler Colonial .58.
Stock finish is Kibler's Iron Nitrate, followed by multiple coats of Chambers Oil. Barrel is cold-blued that, with use, will change to a warm "French Gray." The lock was left a polished in-the-white, as was common during the time period that this rifle represents.

Posted: 3/5/2023 12:59:21 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Resurrecting the thread...
Just finished up my Kibler Colonial .58.
Stock finish is Kibler's Iron Nitrate, followed by multiple coats of Chambers Oil. Barrel is cold-blued that, with use, will change to a warm "French Gray." The lock was left a polished in-the-white, as was common during the time period that this rifle represents.

https://i.ibb.co/HB6ZPwm/20230225-135635.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0ZBvw36/20230225-135800.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/jMSCff0/20230225-140457.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6HTqKzt/20230225-135711.jpg

View Quote

That's a beautiful rifle.

I ordered a blemished Colonial in extra fancy maple with a .54 rifled barrel last week. The blemish was some staining on the stock that should disappear when I stain with iron nitrate.

Posted: 3/8/2023 10:44:01 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
Resurrecting the thread...
Just finished up my Kibler Colonial .58.
Stock finish is Kibler's Iron Nitrate, followed by multiple coats of Chambers Oil. Barrel is cold-blued that, with use, will change to a warm "French Gray." The lock was left a polished in-the-white, as was common during the time period that this rifle represents.

https://i.ibb.co/HB6ZPwm/20230225-135635.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0ZBvw36/20230225-135800.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/jMSCff0/20230225-140457.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6HTqKzt/20230225-135711.jpg

View Quote

Nice carving! That's a good looking rifle.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - First Kit build - Kibler Colonial (Page 1 of 2)

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