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Posted: 2/17/2018 2:37:21 PM EDT
[#1]
NV has the most versatility if you only have one. But recently I realized how much I don’t see with NV that I do with Thermal. I am thermal spoiled, however.
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Posted: 2/17/2018 2:46:48 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm glad I went NV first also it just fits my criteria better. For thermal be been looking at the Seek Reveal Pro 320x240 resolution that is good to 125 yards+. It's a handheld remote style imager which is perfect for my application for searching and seeing into areas where NV fails. It also has a 300 lumen onboard white illuminator which is great but I wish they had a IR illuminator option instead. For the list price of 699 it's not a bad deal but I think street price should be @ 400-499
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Posted: 2/17/2018 3:09:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Higher resolution thermal looks much better, but NV first...
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Posted: 2/17/2018 3:23:07 PM EDT
[#4]
My eyes were blinded when I opened this thread and saw a big red 50%(2)!
You mad bro? Id get a new account.. its not too late to start over. Anyway, no experience with thermal.. ymmv |
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Posted: 2/17/2018 4:37:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My eyes were blinded when I opened this thread and saw a big red 50%(2)!
You mad bro? Id get a new account.. its not too late to start over. Anyway, no experience with thermal.. ymmv 
Anyway, I find that it helps keep the idiots away from me. You know, the people who make snap judgments with one piece of information the back story of which they know nothing about.... |
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Posted: 2/17/2018 4:38:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad I went NV first also it just fits my criteria better. For thermal be been looking at the Seek Reveal Pro 320x240 resolution that is good to 125 yards+. It's a handheld remote style imager which is perfect for my application for searching and seeing into areas where NV fails. It also has a 300 lumen onboard white illuminator which is great but I wish they had a IR illuminator option instead. For the list price of 699 it's not a bad deal but I think street price should be @ 400-499 |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 4:26:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was looking st the flir scout tk. This looks interesting also. Thanks! |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 1:01:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Thermal trumps thermal when hunting almost 100% of the time. I feel like people who prefer NV haven't actually spent enough time behind thermal to know the difference.
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Posted: 2/18/2018 4:38:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thermal trumps thermal when hunting almost 100% of the time. I feel like people who prefer NV haven't actually spent enough time behind thermal to know the difference. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 5:27:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh .... what trumps what? |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 5:33:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thermal trumps thermal when hunting almost 100% of the time. I feel like people who prefer NV haven't actually spent enough time behind thermal to know the difference. I was that same guy until I got into thermal. The only real use I have for any of my night vision is for if we go out shooting at night, or if I need it to navigate to our hunting spots at night. I rarely even keep it on my head after that. Thermal takes the cake. I have a gun specifically setup with a REAP-IR to keep it lightweight when going to and from hunting spot. I would choose thermal if ops sole purpose is to hunt with. Also, op you need to look through a better thermal. Mtm is far from good. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#12]
I first looked through a thermal 12 years ago and was impressed, now I have three dozen FLIRs in addition to my NV kits.
  
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Posted: 2/18/2018 6:24:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Dang. What kind of black coyote is that?
Trophy |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 7:09:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dang. What kind of black coyote is that? Trophy
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Posted: 2/18/2018 9:23:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Have used NV during my army career. After I go out, a relative on the fire department showed me a hand held thermal site they used for finding folks. Blew my mind. So friggin cool. 10 years later, finally able to afford some kind of night vision. Been researching thermals. Wanted a scope. Just got a Flir PTS233. Wow, beats the hell out of NV’s. There is a comparison on you tube between gen 3 NV and a thermal, side by side. That pretty much sealed the deal for going thermal. Can’t wait to hunt with it.
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Posted: 2/18/2018 9:31:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh .... what trumps what? |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 1:08:09 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have used NV during my army career. After I go out, a relative on the fire department showed me a hand held thermal site they used for finding folks. Blew my mind. So friggin cool. 10 years later, finally able to afford some kind of night vision. Been researching thermals. Wanted a scope. Just got a Flir PTS233. Wow, beats the hell out of NV’s. There is a comparison on you tube between gen 3 NV and a thermal, side by side. That pretty much sealed the deal for going thermal. Can’t wait to hunt with it. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 2:09:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it the one where the thermal is also magnified? |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 8:10:10 AM EDT
[#19]
This one....
Comparison-NV vs Thermal |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:30:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Thermal is so much better than I2. I have gen 3 binoculars but hardly ever use them. Thermal gets used every time.
Night vision is good for walking around unfamiliar terrain. One of these days I might actually try to use my night vision and Laser to kill something but I always wonder why should I when I have thermal. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:28:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thermal is so much better than I2. I have gen 3 binoculars but hardly ever use them. Thermal gets used every time. Night vision is good for walking around unfamiliar terrain. One of these days I might actually try to use my night vision and Laser to kill something but I always wonder why should I when I have thermal. 
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Posted: 2/20/2018 1:40:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Yeah, but what about all the talk about not being able to PID with thermal? Don't get me wrong, I'm thermal thru-and-thru (it's in my job description) but it's all I've ever used. Only NV experience I have is using an old Sony camcorder in NightShot mode.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 3:18:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but what about all the talk about not being able to PID with thermal? Don't get me wrong, I'm thermal thru-and-thru (it's in my job description) but it's all I've ever used. Only NV experience I have is using an old Sony camcorder in NightShot mode. So if something nearly invisible to I2 but not to thermal my guess is that it would be easier to identify with thermal. Just my $.02 |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 3:23:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but what about all the talk about not being able to PID with thermal? Don't get me wrong, I'm thermal thru-and-thru (it's in my job description) but it's all I've ever used. Only NV experience I have is using an old Sony camcorder in NightShot mode. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 10:25:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That comes into play with a magnified I2 scope with large good glass.....not a pvs14. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 10:29:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, I'd love to be able to add a 4x I2 scope to the stable. I'm not gonna spend that sort of $ though. I have a night optics D750 that I haven't turned on in about two years now. And that is a great 4x night vision scope. Thermal suits me much better. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:44:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Question being would it better help you positively ID a coyote from the neighbors husky at 60-70 yards? Myself, I don’t really care and I only hunt thermal. But for some guys this could be an issue.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:17:23 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but what about all the talk about not being able to PID with thermal? Don't get me wrong, I'm thermal thru-and-thru (it's in my job description) but it's all I've ever used. Only NV experience I have is using an old Sony camcorder in NightShot mode. The entire argument is pretty much moot when you realize that what you are trying to identify with thermal can't even be seen with NV. This weekend, I walked into a field and could not see any signs of life with my Gen 3, un-filmed white phosphorus pvs14. I pulled up my rifle and counted SEVEN deer. Further, I could clearly tell that they were not bucks, but doe. The only thing I could not positively ID was a small animal about 300 yards away. I started to walk up to it and again, could not see anything with my NV and IR illuminator. At about 20 yards, I still could not see anything except the faint reflection of it's eyes with my NV/illuminator combo. However, I pulled up my thermal and could quickly tell it was a rabbit. If I could do it all over again with current technology that is available, I would have never bought NV for hunting or walking around. I would get a head mounted thermal and a rifle mounted thermal scope. With the new FLIR breach being cheaper than some pvs14's, it's a no-brainer. Que people coming in to tell me why I'm wrong and why they need NV so they can look through windows. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:19:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question being would it better help you positively ID a coyote from the neighbors husky at 60-70 yards? Myself, I don’t really care and I only hunt thermal. But for some guys this could be an issue. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:18:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Funny, if your compairing dual tube to thermal, I see the hesitation. If you had to choose one thermal would be hard to pass up...
Once your have both you can be a snob. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 6:26:09 AM EDT
[#31]
No the snobs are the guys always fiddle f’ing with their ir laser, helmet, and patch set ups in order to get just the right picture.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 8:18:26 AM EDT
[#32]
If I am using I2 to ID an animal it is usually with a PVS30 on a spotter or high end scope.
Thermal is amazing for picking up animals in the field. 2 pieces of gear, 2 uses with some overlap. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:14:28 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't recommend it. I have a night optics D750 that I haven't turned on in about two years now. And that is a great 4x night vision scope. Thermal suits me much better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yup, I'd love to be able to add a 4x I2 scope to the stable. I'm not gonna spend that sort of $ though. I have a night optics D750 that I haven't turned on in about two years now. And that is a great 4x night vision scope. Thermal suits me much better. I’d still like a dedicated I2 scope or nice clip-on, but I’m not spending the $. Having one as a second option would be awesome. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:16:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the money and performance the Reveal Pro blows away the TK Scout and LTO Tracker out of the water almost the same way a high spec Gen 3 vs a Gen 2 tube. I also noticed that Leupold has rebranded the Seek Rival and Rival Pro to the LTO Quest and Quest HD. There are a couple of good vids on youtube showing the capabilities of the Reveal Pro. The detection distance is supposedly at 750 yards |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:21:20 PM EDT
[#35]
I like them both.
I've used $25k thermals at work, but for ease of use and whatnot I like my WP NVG unit. They are left and right hands honestly. Meant to work together. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:23:20 PM EDT
[#36]
I’m not trying to start a shit show but to all of the guys saying thermal is way better why do all of the top tier op guys still use WP Binos for the most part (I know they can and do use thermal but mostly it’s NV)
I ask, again, not to be a smart ass but because I don’t hunt animals. If I ever “Hunt” which I realize is the wrong word, but it’ll be humans during shtf who are trying to bring harm to me. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:24:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like them both. I've used $25k thermals at work, but for ease of use and whatnot I like my WP NVG unit. They are left and right hands honestly. Meant to work together. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:28:38 PM EDT
[#38]
The seek pro is terrible, I had it and returned it. I have a pulsar LD19S now. It’s probably the minimum I’d recommend.
The pulsar has much more resolution than the seek even though both are 320. I’d have issues seeing my kids past 100yd with the seek. I can easily see squirrels at 100yd with the pulsar. The lens is as critical than the sensor size. Thermal is nice,I used it a lot for hunting and seeing if there’s anything around before I start shooting in the desert. I like my PVS14 more though, I saving for duals and will get those before I get a weapon mounted thermal. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:35:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not trying to start a shit show but to all of the guys saying thermal is way better why do all of the top tier op guys still use WP Binos for the most part (I know they can and do use thermal but mostly it’s NV) I ask, again, not to be a smart ass but because I don’t hunt animals. If I ever “Hunt” which I realize is the wrong word, but it’ll be humans during shtf who are trying to bring harm to me. I am sure others will chime in but those have been my experiences. I have used both to drive, shoot and move and it really is left and right hand as mentioned above. I2 is ideal for movement and tasks in a light sensitive situation. Thermal is ideal for locating a target. Obviously there is overlap but that is the simplest way to state the differences. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:46:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not trying to start a shit show but to all of the guys saying thermal is way better why do all of the top tier op guys still use WP Binos for the most part (I know they can and do use thermal but mostly it’s NV) I ask, again, not to be a smart ass but because I don’t hunt animals. If I ever “Hunt” which I realize is the wrong word, but it’ll be humans during shtf who are trying to bring harm to me. If we were in a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI situation and I could only pick one device, I would definitely pick night vision. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 4:19:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this a rhetorical question? Because the answer is obvious. All the "thermal is better" guys in here are talking about hunting pigs and coyotes. You don't have to be a hunter in order to comprehend their responses. The "top tier op guys" you reference are talking about shooting at two-legged creatures that shoot back. Two completely different use-cases. If we were in a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI situation and I could only pick one device, I would definitely pick night vision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’m not trying to start a shit show but to all of the guys saying thermal is way better why do all of the top tier op guys still use WP Binos for the most part (I know they can and do use thermal but mostly it’s NV) I ask, again, not to be a smart ass but because I don’t hunt animals. If I ever “Hunt” which I realize is the wrong word, but it’ll be humans during shtf who are trying to bring harm to me. If we were in a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI situation and I could only pick one device, I would definitely pick night vision. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 5:59:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this a rhetorical question? Because the answer is obvious. All the "thermal is better" guys in here are talking about hunting pigs and coyotes. You don't have to be a hunter in order to comprehend their responses. The "top tier op guys" you reference are talking about shooting at two-legged creatures that shoot back. Two completely different use-cases. If we were in a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI situation and I could only pick one device, I would definitely pick night vision. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 6:35:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Israeli IDF uses FLIR T-70s for clearing Hezbollah tunnels as do the US Marshals service for urban sniper apps.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 6:55:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The seek pro is terrible, I had it and returned it. I have a pulsar LD19S now. It’s probably the minimum I’d recommend. The pulsar has much more resolution than the seek even though both are 320. I’d have issues seeing my kids past 100yd with the seek. I can easily see squirrels at 100yd with the pulsar. The lens is as critical than the sensor size. Thermal is nice,I used it a lot for hunting and seeing if there’s anything around before I start shooting in the desert. I like my PVS14 more though, I saving for duals and will get those before I get a weapon mounted thermal. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 7:05:59 PM EDT
[#45]
If we're talking SHTF scenario IMHO a set of NODs would be a better selection due to the superior battery life and the ability to mount it to your dome. Having a weapons mounted thermal will blow for doing recce/general movement just as much a weapons mounted PVS14. Unless your doing over watch for a very short period of time and you have an unlimited stash of batteries a I2 may be a better choice.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 8:23:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thermal trumps thermal when hunting almost 100% of the time. I feel like people who prefer NV haven't actually spent enough time behind thermal to know the difference. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 11:10:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this a rhetorical question? Because the answer is obvious. All the "thermal is better" guys in here are talking about hunting pigs and coyotes. You don't have to be a hunter in order to comprehend their responses. The "top tier op guys" you reference are talking about shooting at two-legged creatures that shoot back. Two completely different use-cases. If we were in a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI situation and I could only pick one device, I would definitely pick night vision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’m not trying to start a shit show but to all of the guys saying thermal is way better why do all of the top tier op guys still use WP Binos for the most part (I know they can and do use thermal but mostly it’s NV) I ask, again, not to be a smart ass but because I don’t hunt animals. If I ever “Hunt” which I realize is the wrong word, but it’ll be humans during shtf who are trying to bring harm to me. If we were in a SHTF / TEOTWAWKI situation and I could only pick one device, I would definitely pick night vision. Remington is right...there are things you can miss with the highest end NV. Thermal is amazing tech. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 10:28:50 AM EDT
[#48]
If you look at the video I linked, thermal has one draw back, can’t see through glass.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 11:11:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No the snobs are the guys always fiddle f’ing with their ir laser, helmet, and patch set ups in order to get just the right picture. And those same types post pics of pristine rifles that look like they have never been used. What's the point of having a weapon if your not going to develop skill at arms with it? |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 11:22:26 AM EDT
[#50]
The go hand in hand in my opinion and I own both. I think thermal is better for detection and I2 for identification and there are some other things thermal can not see that I2 can.
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