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Posted: 8/31/2020 1:39:38 AM EDT
I just got to Montana from a not so free state and want to get a can ASAP.
I got told at Scheels today that I need to be here for 6 months before I can get started on the process. I've been stuck behind enemy lines for the majority of my life and don't like the thought of waiting another 6 months to wait for another 9-12 months after that.
Besides filing a Form 1 and rolling my own, is there another way to go about this?
Would going the trust versus individual route get me there quicker?
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 1:47:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Looking at the most recent numbers on silencer shop, it would be faster for you to go individual.

https://www.silencershop.com/atf-wait-times
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 1:54:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Now with that being said, I ordered two suppressors after my brother, and both of mine came back before his. He placed his order in August 2019, I placed my orders in November and December of 2019. He is still waiting for his.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 2:11:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Form 1 solvent trap or buy an in-stock unit at your local dealer.

I've used silencer shop for about 3-4 cans and each time it was slow. The worst was it took them like a two months to get a can to my local SOT... They're a good shop with good prices and straightforward ordering and I recommend them. I've just found them to be SLOW getting the cans to my dealer on the form 3.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 2:30:27 AM EDT
[#4]
I plan on buying something off-the-shelf for my first. I was under the assumption that once I've got a DL and an address here that purchasing wouldn't really be an issue.

Is there truth to the 6-month residency requirement I was told about?

I've drooled over the stuff for years but I haven't yet had occasion to really research the intricacies
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 7:14:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Sheels...haha.  if the gtf area go-to highwood Creek there got a ss kiosk.  You got a Mt dl yet?  

There even got some rental cans and indoor range.

Other option in the gtf is Mitchell supply.  But no kiosk...Bing Bob's up in havare is also a ss kiosk.

Other areas of state I don't know....



Link Posted: 8/31/2020 7:20:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Now with that being said, I ordered two suppressors after my brother, and both of mine came back before his. He placed his order in August 2019, I placed my orders in November and December of 2019. He is still waiting for his.
View Quote

Fuuuuuck, I’d be heated.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 7:26:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I just got to Montana from a not so free state and want to get a can ASAP.
I got told at Scheels today that I need to be here for 6 months before I can get started on the process. I've been stuck behind enemy lines for the majority of my life and don't like the thought of waiting another 6 months to wait for another 9-12 months after that.
Besides filing a Form 1 and rolling my own, is there another way to go about this.
Would going the trust versus individual route get me there quicker?
View Quote

Appears 6 months residency is the case for CCW permit. Couldn’t see any specifics about silencer purchase for that. I’d check in the hometown forum maybe. Good luck OP.  I did the same after living behind enemy lines for a decade. I’d just buy a few of the if I were you.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 9:09:07 AM EDT
[#8]
Go to every LGS listed in your area and ask. Both of mine will bend over backwards to get your business.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 9:15:34 AM EDT
[#9]
the 6 month thing is not a federal rule for cans or NFA. I filed my first GA NFA after being here for 2 months. So that's imaginary.

fastest is a kit and you build it before the stamp. Which is illegal so obviously don't do that, but it is the fastest.

2nd fastest is a kit you build after the digital form 1. I'm hearing about 3 weeks on approval, and I'm 2 weeks into an SBS so I'm getting antsy.

3rd fastest is buy a can that's in stock at a dealer with a kiosk. If they have a range you can fondle it while it's in prison which helps

4th fastest is buy a can that's not in stock since it adds a layer of shipping and shit.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 9:26:39 AM EDT
[#10]
I heard e-filed filed form 1 cans were taking 1 to 2 weeks, but I have no personal experience with those and could be wrong.  

That being said, if I were in a hurry, I'd take a chance and look into getting one of the JK Armament solvent traps.  I say take a chance because they seem like they are built well, but are made out of aluminum.  While I think AL is fine for a pistol can, I'm not sold on using it for a rifle can.

If you aren't in that big of a hurry, I'd definitely start looking at what's available from the silencer shop.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 10:00:15 AM EDT
[#11]
If you have the tools and abilities, form 1 is by far the fastest. Even if you don’t really have tools, many of the kits can be done with a jig and a hand drill.
Paperwork is taking 2-8 weeks depending on if you get stuck in FBI background check hell and a couple other factors (picking your own model and getting stuck in pending research status for 2-4 weeks). My last form 1 which I did last month was approved in 14 days. My previous form 4 was 10 months (2019).
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 1:33:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:

I got told at Scheels today that I need to be here for 6 months before I can get started on the process.
View Quote






Would going the trust versus individual route get me there quicker?
View Quote

Over the last year, 200 odd stamps I;ve seen no difference unless there are multiple RP's on a trust.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 1:35:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looking at the most recent numbers on silencer shop, it would be faster for you to go individual.

https://www.silencershop.com/atf-wait-times
View Quote

FYI, those are buyer submitted times, not times from ATF.
In my experience NFATracker is horseshit.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 1:39:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Form 1 solvent trap or buy an in-stock unit at your local dealer.

I've used silencer shop for about 3-4 cans and each time it was slow. The worst was it took them like a two months to get a can to my local SOT... They're a good shop with good prices and straightforward ordering and I recommend them. I've just found them to be SLOW getting the cans to my dealer on the form 3.
View Quote

<----SS Powered By Dealer.
How long it takes Silencer Shop to ship to your dealer has no bearing on the Form 4. SS starts the F4 as soon as the F3 is approved. Sometimes SS will wait until they have me a box of a dozen+ before they ship. That doesn't mean the F4's are on hold.

Now, if your dealer was slow or forgot to do the Docusign, that could bog the process down quite a bit.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 4:17:49 PM EDT
[#15]
.....
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 4:28:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

<----SS Powered By Dealer.
How long it takes Silencer Shop to ship to your dealer has no bearing on the Form 4. SS starts the F4 as soon as the F3 is approved. Sometimes SS will wait until they have me a box of a dozen+ before they ship. That doesn't mean the F4's are on hold.

Now, if your dealer was slow or forgot to do the Docusign, that could bog the process down quite a bit.
View Quote


Some dealers are now not signing the F4 until they have the can in their hands so they can verify the S/N, so that’s later than the F3 just being approved.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 5:55:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Some dealers are now not signing the F4 until they have the can in their hands so they can verify the S/N, so that’s later than the F3 just being approved.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

<----SS Powered By Dealer.
How long it takes Silencer Shop to ship to your dealer has no bearing on the Form 4. SS starts the F4 as soon as the F3 is approved. Sometimes SS will wait until they have me a box of a dozen+ before they ship. That doesn't mean the F4's are on hold.

Now, if your dealer was slow or forgot to do the Docusign, that could bog the process down quite a bit.


Some dealers are now not signing the F4 until they have the can in their hands so they can verify the S/N, so that’s later than the F3 just being approved.

Even if that, I've not waited longer than a week for SS to ship an instock can. The only waits are the backordered cans.
But dealers who wait for the  can to arrive before Docusigning are to blame, not SS.
Link Posted: 8/31/2020 11:47:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Ok, kind of distilling my question here:

What documentation do I need when making a purchase?
Do I need to wait for my Montana DL to get in?
Link Posted: 9/1/2020 2:04:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

FYI, those are buyer submitted times, not times from ATF.
In my experience NFATracker is horseshit.
View Quote


NFA Tracker isn’t horseshit, it’s just a poor data representation. The entire leading edge of the curve from 2 months to 14 months is the current moving spread of approval returns.  You have no idea which cluster your return will fall within. It isn’t predictive but documents past performance.  The bureaucrats don’t run a very tight FIFO or Priority Queue on the Form 4s.  It’s more like raking leaves, there’s always some left behind to rot.
Link Posted: 9/1/2020 5:14:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 9/1/2020 12:13:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


NFA Tracker isn’t horseshit, it’s just a poor data representation. The entire leading edge of the curve from 2 months to 14 months is the current moving spread of approval returns.  You have no idea which cluster your return will fall within. It isn’t predictive but documents past performance.  The bureaucrats don’t run a very tight FIFO or Priority Queue on the Form 4s.  It’s more like raking leaves, there’s always some left behind to rot.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

FYI, those are buyer submitted times, not times from ATF.
In my experience NFATracker is horseshit.


NFA Tracker isn’t horseshit, it’s just a poor data representation. The entire leading edge of the curve from 2 months to 14 months is the current moving spread of approval returns.  You have no idea which cluster your return will fall within. It isn’t predictive but documents past performance.  The bureaucrats don’t run a very tight FIFO or Priority Queue on the Form 4s.  It’s more like raking leaves, there’s always some left behind to rot.

It's horseshit because that "data representation" is only data submitted by SOME Form 4 applicants. And the dates they submit may not be anywhere close to accurate. I've had customers fully believe that the day they scanned fingerprints on the SS Kiosk meant their F4 was "submitted"....they had not even bought the tax stamp.

Bad info submitted to NFA Tracker, means poor data, ie horseshit. I give more credence to ATF's 90 day averages than NFA Tracker.
Link Posted: 9/4/2020 11:25:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Talked to some dudes in stores earlier and it looks like I'll need a Montana license.
What's another couple of weeks in the grand scheme of NFA?
Link Posted: 9/5/2020 12:07:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Talked to some dudes in stores earlier and it looks like I'll need a Montana license.
What's another couple of weeks in the grand scheme of NFA?
View Quote
After you get your license, I don't believe there is a 6 month wait. That's for CCW and hunting licenses.

Check out Beartooth Guns.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 2:30:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Fuuuuuck, I’d be heated.
View Quote


Yeah no doubt, it definitely shows there are flaws in the system.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 9:29:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It's horseshit because that "data representation" is only data submitted by SOME Form 4 applicants. And the dates they submit may not be anywhere close to accurate. I've had customers fully believe that the day they scanned fingerprints on the SS Kiosk meant their F4 was "submitted"....they had not even bought the tax stamp.

Bad info submitted to NFA Tracker, means poor data, ie horseshit. I give more credence to ATF's 90 day averages than NFA Tracker.
View Quote


Yeah, I agree with that.  It’s not a random sample and the fidelity of self reported data is poor.  However even fixing those two input qualities the presentation would look similar and people would misread the meaning of the better data as a time series trend rather than a moving bulge or surface of scattered times. Either way it isn’t predictive.  Neither are ATF averages.  A single point average may be more accurate technically, but tells you nothing about spread or skewness.  

Best advice for OP is find something acceptable in stock and get the process started with a reputable local dealer.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 10:04:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
.... people would misread the meaning of the better data as a time series trend rather than a moving bulge or surface of scattered times. Either way it isn’t predictive.  Neither are ATF averages.  A single point average may be more accurate technically, but tells you nothing about spread or skewness.  

Best advice for OP is find something acceptable in stock and get the process started with a reputable local dealer.
View Quote

True.
Every day I'm asked "Hey, what are wait times these days?"
Me: "well, I just received a stamp for an F4 submitted in early March, but that doesn't mean yours will be that quick".
"Oh, I'll hold off until wait times drop".
Me:

Link Posted: 9/14/2020 8:53:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah, I agree with that.  It's not a random sample and the fidelity of self reported data is poor.  However even fixing those two input qualities the presentation would look similar and people would misread the meaning of the better data as a time series trend rather than a moving bulge or surface of scattered times. Either way it isn't predictive.  Neither are ATF averages.  A single point average may be more accurate technically, but tells you nothing about spread or skewness.  

Best advice for OP is find something acceptable in stock and get the process started with a reputable local dealer.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

It's horseshit because that "data representation" is only data submitted by SOME Form 4 applicants. And the dates they submit may not be anywhere close to accurate. I've had customers fully believe that the day they scanned fingerprints on the SS Kiosk meant their F4 was "submitted"....they had not even bought the tax stamp.

Bad info submitted to NFA Tracker, means poor data, ie horseshit. I give more credence to ATF's 90 day averages than NFA Tracker.


Yeah, I agree with that.  It's not a random sample and the fidelity of self reported data is poor.  However even fixing those two input qualities the presentation would look similar and people would misread the meaning of the better data as a time series trend rather than a moving bulge or surface of scattered times. Either way it isn't predictive.  Neither are ATF averages.  A single point average may be more accurate technically, but tells you nothing about spread or skewness.  

Best advice for OP is find something acceptable in stock and get the process started with a reputable local dealer.


I just got my DL and live around the corner from a dealer that I can visit my can and shoot with it while I wait.
I'll be purchasing here in the next little bit
Link Posted: 9/15/2020 12:41:08 AM EDT
[#28]
Welcome to the free states of America and the NFA club.  Your doing it right.  Found a dealer that allows visits.  Good for you.  So what are you purchasing?  
Link Posted: 9/15/2020 9:05:51 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
Welcome to the free states of America and the NFA club.  Your doing it right.  Found a dealer that allows visits.  Good for you.  So what are you purchasing?  
View Quote


I've still got plenty of research to do but I'm leaning towards one of the Dead Air cans. About half of my rifles have Surefire brakes on them, but from the reading I've done, the suppressors don't seem to be all that.
Link Posted: 9/15/2020 6:11:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Dead makes good stuff.  They had a rough patch there with their previous manufacturing partner but that has been sorted out now.  

I have a Sandman K. I like it alot.  The Sandman cans are built like brick shit houses.  If you don't need something bomb proof for all out full auto abuse the Nomad is still plenty strong and an excellent performer.

YHM is killing it these days in the value segment.  I'd take a serious look at their stuff.  I just got my stamp back on my R2.  I'm really liking it.  

Rugged, Thunder Beast, Silencer Co.... the market is full of win at the moment.  Ultimately decide if you want one can that does almost everything you intend to bounce around all of your hosts or do you want eventually to dedicate some cans to specific hosts.  Is hard usage a real consideration or will this be a light  firing schedule?  A dedicated can that works really well with that particular host and its chambering will perform the best but you have little versatility.  Cans that can be used on a wide variety of hosts and chamberings will suppress well in some setups but most will be meh at best.

Depending on the host(s) and what you want to do with this purchase will help everyone kinda dial it in for you what would be best to consider and what to avoid.  

Usually it comes down to 3 catergories, weight, length and strength.  It's tough to get all 3.  If your really just looking for a bolt gun can that will only see a minimal amount of usage the heavy full auto rated cans are kinda pointless.  If your throwing this on a semi auto with the intention of doing back to back mag dumps then obviously the heavier full auto rated cans are just the ticket.  

Best of luck sorting it out and pinning down what that first purchase will be.



Link Posted: 9/22/2020 10:18:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Thank you all for the help.

My first can is on the way
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 1:55:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Not even gonna tell us what you're getting?
Link Posted: 9/27/2020 12:47:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not even gonna tell us what you're getting?
View Quote


The first was a Sandman S, the second...is being researched

The dealer I'm going through has an indoor range attached so I'll get to visit while I'm waiting
Link Posted: 10/14/2020 9:38:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Today was the day


Link Posted: 10/19/2020 4:22:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

@dtux

Very slick build, and congrats on the new can. Question: what upper is that?
Link Posted: 10/19/2020 7:52:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

@dtux

Very slick build, and congrats on the new can. Question: what upper is that?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

@dtux

Very slick build, and congrats on the new can. Question: what upper is that?


@Sprocket99

Thanks, man, it's definitely one of my favorites. It's a BRN180 upper.
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