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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 2/4/2022 11:00:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken]
Have everything but the lower, just waiting on the ATF.

Wanted one for a long time ...found one from a local only 10 miles away!!!  Nice to be able to shoot it & really do a detailed inspection before purchase.   Form 4 individual to individual so eform not an option....I figure ill be lucky to have her before Christmas but luckily the seller loves to shoot and meet at the range now and then.

Pics taken in differnt lighting, the upper and lower finish matches well.  Took lower apart for a detailed inspection, check holes, etc.








April update: got a visit today, why not set her up like the Commando from Heat
All Colt with correct buffer tube locking ring, bungee sling and even A1 flash hider cause thats what they used in the movie!

Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:13:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Very nice.

I must admit, there have been a few times I've thought about selling much of my gun collection to get one of those particular lowers.
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:14:33 PM EDT
[#2]
nice - but at what price?
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:15:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Beautiful! Mind sharing the price?
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:31:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken] [#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Beautiful! Mind sharing the price?
View Quote


A little more then I should have over 35 but under 40.  I had been looking for months....the seller purchased a gun from me, had zero idea I was in the market, just brought it to show it off..I mentioned I wanted one and he mentioned he might sell for the right price so I spit out my best price.

Wish I got one a few years ago...but I just was not in the position to buy one then.  Lately they seem a lot harder to find...I'm not getting any younger so I jumped.  I did find another one cheaper, but it was across the country and had a few details I didn't like as much...I was willing to pay a little more for peace of mind I guess, not having to ship or pay before I saw it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:38:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Congrats.

I love my M-16A2 Auto-marked. Pride of my collection.

Bought it (mint condition) in 2004 for $18k. Should have bought three.
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:39:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Sounds like a good price in todays market. I was expecting around $40k.

Rubens been asking $29k for off brand A1 lowers.
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 11:47:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Sounds like a good price in todays market. I was expecting around $40k.

Rubens been asking $29k for off brand A1 lowers.
View Quote


Thanks.  Yeah, I know Ruben is high, but on Stum I have been watching A1s sell for 32-35...I was about to buy an A1 but at that point what's a few more grand to get exactly what you want.

I also set up a trust with my kids as beneficiaries, so I can justify it as putting something back in for them
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 10:54:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Outstanding, congratulations Heineken. That lower has really uniform rollmarks too.
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 11:51:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Bought my Colt M-16A1 in 2006ish for $14,500.00. Same guy had an A2-auto for $2,000.00 more and I said no way. Dah. I'm always amazed how with Colt M-16's and AR's seem to all have uneven roll marking. Piss pour workmanship. Can't you set up the roller one time and press in evenly?

OP great find!
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 12:13:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 1:31:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks all, I also found the roll marks better then average for a Colt that is.

If anyone knows where I can get an original manual, hook me up, it's all she is missing.
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 4:51:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Incredible! Congratulations indeed, looks fantastic.
Link Posted: 2/5/2022 5:53:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 2/6/2022 1:15:23 AM EDT
[#14]
That’s in beautiful shape — congrats on it!
Link Posted: 2/6/2022 2:27:51 AM EDT
[#15]
congrats! The roll marks look nice and uniform. It looks really nice,  I think in time you'll see you actually paid a good price for it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 3:46:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Wish I would have gotten an A2 RR lower like yours but I got my M16A1 lower right before prices took off so I'm happy just to have any colt RR lower. My roll marks are not as nice as yours. However I also got an HK sear so I got my 2 grail guns.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 10:09:29 PM EDT
[#17]
You have chosen wisely.  You will never have to wonder if maybe you should have held out for something closer to what you really wanted.
Mine:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/8/2022 11:41:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Muzap:
You have chosen wisely.  You will never have to wonder if maybe you should have held out for something closer to what you really wanted.
Mine:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/400160/My_A2_2_zpsxjqjgqig_JPG-2271020.JPG
View Quote


That too has beautiful, uniform roll marks.
Link Posted: 2/8/2022 10:00:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshNC:


That too has beautiful, uniform roll marks.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
Originally Posted By Muzap:
You have chosen wisely.  You will never have to wonder if maybe you should have held out for something closer to what you really wanted.
Mine:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/400160/My_A2_2_zpsxjqjgqig_JPG-2271020.JPG


That too has beautiful, uniform roll marks.


Yeah, wow, that one is a stunner, somehow even made it out of the factory without the usual Colt handling marks!  That thing looks crisp.amd extra minty!!
Link Posted: 2/10/2022 9:14:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Very cool, my grail gun, given the prices I’ll just stick with my non-colt RR, not as fancy but still shoots the same.
Link Posted: 2/10/2022 11:55:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Looks good but why is she stripped?
Link Posted: 2/11/2022 12:18:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 2/11/2022 12:25:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akethan:



Lower is in jail?
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Originally Posted By akethan:
Originally Posted By sig-x:
Looks good but why is she stripped?



Lower is in jail?


If that was the case I understand taking the upper home. If she’s a shooter it doesn’t matter though.
Link Posted: 2/11/2022 8:57:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken] [#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sig-x:
Looks good but why is she stripped?
View Quote


Seller had KNS pins installed and kns sear pin, I wanted to be able to check the holes with reg pins and get a good look at everything.  I had already shot it but just felt better checking.  Snapped some photos and took everything with me other then the lower and full auto parts....give me something to look at for the next year while I wait on the ATF.

Upper looks to have only ever been test fired.  My plan is to put an SSF trigger and modern furniture on it and rock it like that.  Going to put the original upper, furniture and trigger pack away for my kids or a rainy day when I feel like going old school.
Link Posted: 2/11/2022 9:00:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless] [#25]
Link Posted: 2/26/2022 9:42:45 PM EDT
[#26]
That’s pretty cool. I’ve never seen that before. Congrats!
Link Posted: 2/26/2022 11:46:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Heineken:
My plan is to put an SSF trigger and modern furniture on it and rock it like that.
View Quote
Excellent plan.
Link Posted: 3/1/2022 2:06:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Hmm.. I find it strange that it was stripped.. even the sear.
Link Posted: 3/1/2022 4:29:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryo:
Hmm.. I find it strange that it was stripped.. even the sear.
View Quote


Maybe read the thread?

See post above -
Seller had KNS pins installed and kns sear pin, I wanted to be able to check the holes with reg pins and get a good look at everything.  I had already shot it but just felt better checking.  Snapped some photos and took everything with me other then the lower and full auto parts....give me something to look at for the next year while I wait on the ATF.

Upper looks to have only ever been test fired.  My plan is to put an SSF trigger and modern furniture on it and rock it like that.  Going to put the original upper, furniture and trigger pack away for my kids or a rainy day when I feel like going old school.
Link Posted: 3/1/2022 5:45:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Ah.. didn't read down that far. Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/6/2022 10:32:30 AM EDT
[#31]
My sheriffs dept had an A2 with the full auto parts. They were available.
Link Posted: 3/18/2022 8:01:57 PM EDT
[#32]
What's worth more, or seems to be in higher demand - The M16 A1 or A2?

I have a Oly-paws RR that's been my blaster for years, and have been thinking about trading up to a Colt. (Now that ammo prices mean I'm not shooting as much and putting wear on a machinegun, might as well have a nicer safe queen!)

A shop near me has a Government Property marked, old-school M16A1, but before I trade in, I want to make sure I'm getting the more desirable model.

Link Posted: 3/19/2022 6:27:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: akchef] [#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swtc:
What's worth more, or seems to be in higher demand - The M16 A1 or A2?

I have a Oly-paws RR that's been my blaster for years, and have been thinking about trading up to a Colt. (Now that ammo prices mean I'm not shooting as much and putting wear on a machinegun, might as well have a nicer safe queen!)

A shop near me has a Government Property marked, old-school M16A1, but before I trade in, I want to make sure I'm getting the more desirable model.

View Quote


Normally I'd say a Colt M16A2 built on a true A2 forging (As with many things Colt, for their commercial line, they didn't distinguish between forgings when marking them so there seem to be an equal number of M16A2 marked guns made with A1 as well as A2 style lowers) will command the highest price of all the commonly available M16 variations, but, you're talking about a "US Property" marked A1 which is a rare bird on it's own so it's really hard to say which is more valuable because you just don't see that many for sale.
For me, if both were in equal condition and in rifle configuration, I'd value the US Property M16 slightly higher. But if we are comparing the US Property M16A1 in rifle configuration -vs- a commercial M16A2 factory built carbine, marked "auto" and not "burst" and built with a true A2 lower, I'd say the A2 has the edge in value be a few thousand.
That being said, I think a US Property marked M16A2 would have the highest value of all the available, transferable Colt M16s but it's very rare to find one.

And a word of caution regarding the US Property M16 you found. Because they are uncommon, I would take care and examine it very carefully before buying it. Most transferable US Property M16s are rewelds and as such, don't have nearly the value as uncut originals. Check carefully the finish and texture of the metal and look for any flaws or inconsistencies around the markings above the FCG. If I were contemplating buying a US Property gun, I'd want to have it X-rayed if the seller was asking any more than reweld/coversion price for it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2022 2:32:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akchef: But if we are comparing the US Property M16A1 in rifle configuration

And a word of caution regarding the US Property M16 you found. Because they are uncommon, I would take care and examine it very carefully before buying it. Most transferable US Property M16s are rewelds and as such, don't have nearly the value as uncut originals.
View Quote

Great information, thanks.

If it is a legit, factory gun, wouldn't the registration form say "Colt" as the manufacturer, instead of "Bob's GunWorks" or whomever rewelded it?
(The one I'm looking at is marked "Safe, Semi, Auto"... Cal 5.56mm, M-16A1, Property of U.S. Government" btw. $33k, minus my trade-in.)

Link Posted: 3/20/2022 5:22:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swtc:

Great information, thanks.

If it is a legit, factory gun, wouldn't the registration form say "Colt" as the manufacturer, instead of "Bob's GunWorks" or whomever rewelded it?
(The one I'm looking at is marked "Safe, Semi, Auto"... Cal 5.56mm, M-16A1, Property of U.S. Government" btw. $33k, minus my trade-in.)

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Originally Posted By swtc:
Originally Posted By akchef: But if we are comparing the US Property M16A1 in rifle configuration

And a word of caution regarding the US Property M16 you found. Because they are uncommon, I would take care and examine it very carefully before buying it. Most transferable US Property M16s are rewelds and as such, don't have nearly the value as uncut originals.

Great information, thanks.

If it is a legit, factory gun, wouldn't the registration form say "Colt" as the manufacturer, instead of "Bob's GunWorks" or whomever rewelded it?
(The one I'm looking at is marked "Safe, Semi, Auto"... Cal 5.56mm, M-16A1, Property of U.S. Government" btw. $33k, minus my trade-in.)



I was told that over the course of transfers, someone could have (purposely or even accidentally) put Colt back as the manufacturer and then transfer still approved.

Also really good advice on the above posts, and totally agree.
Link Posted: 3/20/2022 7:34:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swtc:

Great information, thanks.

If it is a legit, factory gun, wouldn't the registration form say "Colt" as the manufacturer, instead of "Bob's GunWorks" or whomever rewelded it?
(The one I'm looking at is marked "Safe, Semi, Auto"... Cal 5.56mm, M-16A1, Property of U.S. Government" btw. $33k, minus my trade-in.)

View Quote


The AFT wasn't as on point as far verifying the correctness of the manufacturer and model of the firearm back when these were registered. It could say practically anything.

If I read it right, your thinking of paying $33k + your trade in Oly-paws RR? I would think you are way overpaying if that's the case. Your Oly-paws RR is worth somewhere around $25k, more or less. That would make the total purchase price of the US Prop M16A1 $57k? That's way, way too much.
Now if they want $33k for it before any trade in, that's in the ballpark for a legit, non-reweld US Prop M16.
But the asking price doesn't mean it's not a reweld. Some of those were so good, you'd need an x-ray to tell. Without either an X-ray or a FOIA showing the original manufacturer/registration then I would expect the price to be much lower.
Link Posted: 3/21/2022 5:53:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GPSIG] [#37]
I have studied the US marked guns quite a bit and all the genuine ones I have seen are marked with a dash after the "M," M-16A1 which isn't common and I don't think you will find in the re-welds.  Also, they are all in the mid 5 million serial number range and concentrated around 5,3XX,XXX.  Some have been refinished, and the untouched ones show wear and sometimes electro-penciled rack numbers (the photo I have shows the number "71").  The gun with the 71 mark on it sold recently on gun broker for 33k.  There may be others groups of US marked guns, and there are folks who know more about them than I do, but I have found this generally to be the case and if a gun fell outside these ranges I would want to be careful about it.
Link Posted: 3/21/2022 8:07:40 AM EDT
[#38]
That’s pretty cool. I guess I didn’t realize the price for those things. Is this an investment or a toy?

50 bucks for an Anderson lower and a drill works for me.

Become ungovernable.
Link Posted: 3/21/2022 9:39:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stroker548:
That's pretty cool. I guess I didn't realize the price for those things. Is this an investment or a toy?

50 bucks for an Anderson lower and a drill works for me.

Become ungovernable.
View Quote


Anderson is the wrong internal cut.  Look at Centurion, DSA, or Matrix.
Link Posted: 3/21/2022 10:34:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stroker548:
That’s pretty cool. I guess I didn’t realize the price for those things. Is this an investment or a toy?

50 bucks for an Anderson lower and a drill works for me.

Become ungovernable.
View Quote


A toy to enjoy, be able to cash out if needed, but hopefully pass it to my kids after I spend the rest of my life enjoying it with them.
Link Posted: 3/28/2022 8:39:19 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akchef:
If I read it right, your thinking of paying $33k + your trade in Oly-paws RR?...That would make the total purchase price of the US Prop M16A1 $57k? That's way, way too much.
Now if they want $33k for it before any trade in, that's in the ballpark for a legit, non-reweld US Prop M16.
But the asking price doesn't mean it's not a reweld. Some of those were so good, you'd need an x-ray to tell. Without either an X-ray or a FOIA showing the original manufacturer/registration then I would expect the price to be much lower.
View Quote


It's the former scenario. We're bargaining slowly, his asking price is now $32k. I can easily sell my PAWS for, like you said, somewhere over $25k, so I'd be paying only whatever we come to as the difference.

I figure trading up to a real Colt, if it isn't a hacksmith conversion (he says it's real, it's engraved U.S. Property, so... probably real, no reason to assume differently, but always leery) is worth five large to just have the pretty pony and US stamp.

Trouble is, I actually don't like those Vietnam-era long barrels, and if it's a safe queen, I probably wouldn't be popping a MK18 upper on it and using it as a blaster.  :)

Eh, still thinking about it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2022 9:42:10 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swtc:
Trouble is, I actually don't like those Vietnam-era long barrels, and if it's a safe queen, I probably wouldn't be popping a MK18 upper on it and using it as a blaster.  :)
View Quote
Why not?

Strip it down to the receiver and put the original parts in storage. Install a SSF trigger and use PMAGs in it. Unless you scratch the receiver, it'll still look the same.

It doesn't have a staked castle nut, so use whatever stock you want. The original will go right back on later.
Link Posted: 3/29/2022 6:53:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Why not?

Strip it down to the receiver and put the original parts in storage. Install a SSF trigger and use PMAGs in it. Unless you scratch the receiver, it'll still look the same.

It doesn't have a staked castle nut, so use whatever stock you want. The original will go right back on later.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
Originally Posted By swtc:
Trouble is, I actually don't like those Vietnam-era long barrels, and if it's a safe queen, I probably wouldn't be popping a MK18 upper on it and using it as a blaster.  :)
Why not?

Strip it down to the receiver and put the original parts in storage. Install a SSF trigger and use PMAGs in it. Unless you scratch the receiver, it'll still look the same.

It doesn't have a staked castle nut, so use whatever stock you want. The original will go right back on later.


Yeah for a US property marked legit Colt I think it's a great price and you should go for it.
Link Posted: 4/3/2022 1:47:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: under9] [#44]
Deleted
Link Posted: 4/4/2022 7:22:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swtc:


It's the former scenario. We're bargaining slowly, his asking price is now $32k. I can easily sell my PAWS for, like you said, somewhere over $25k, so I'd be paying only whatever we come to as the difference.

I figure trading up to a real Colt, if it isn't a hacksmith conversion (he says it's real, it's engraved U.S. Property, so... probably real, no reason to assume differently, but always leery) is worth five large to just have the pretty pony and US stamp.

Trouble is, I actually don't like those Vietnam-era long barrels, and if it's a safe queen, I probably wouldn't be popping a MK18 upper on it and using it as a blaster.  :)

Eh, still thinking about it.
View Quote



I'd easily pay $5k extra for a legit US Prop marked lower. And I'd shoot it too. Lowers don't take a lot of stress from firing (unless you run a 9mm conversion) so you won't be wearing it out.
A safe queen is just a pure investment. There's no real fun in it. If you want to invest, there are other, more lucrative vehicles that will give you a better return. But a MG that you use and have fun with while it still appreciates in value, that's what life is about!
Link Posted: 4/4/2022 8:06:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Did any M16a2 marked Burst leave as Carbines? I am looking a M16a2 which is said to be a carbine but marked as Burst and has a A1 receiver. The Form 4 does list the barrel length as 14.5 and overall 33.5.
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