I would like to add a belt-fed gun in my collection.
Luckily, I've both DIAS & HK sear packs, so all I need to do is to pick up a reliable belt-fed host.

Now, I've basically two choices.
1) New improved Fightlite MCR - I could get the short barreled upper w/ auto carrier + 1 additional barrel for $4K new
2) MM23E - It will cost me near $13~15K w/ extra barrel & some accessory.

I know MM23E is a proven design and way smoother, but I don't know whether I could justify the price tag.
In other hand, Fightlite MCR is a lot cheaper (more than 3 times when comparing to MM23E) but I don't know how long it will last or I could get reliable support from the MFG.

If I wanted to go with MM23E, then I have to sell most of my semi-auto collections.
If I go with MCR, then I only have to sell a few semi-auto guns.
I'm planning to shoot about 1K a month.

Any thoughts or recommendation?

I also have both rdias and HK sear.
@1000rds a month id say start with the shrike.
I got about 55k rds out of my shrike before they gave me a new receiver for free, when it came back that had serviced the top cover and it fell apart in 50rd.They fixed it again after the warrenete had expired.(not really because they messed it up)
Either way i wouldnt worry about about their customer service most people dont shoot 50k+ rounds a year.
The mcr can be had new for 4k.. i like the barrel change handle and iron sights bit is a huge waste of money.
Get a set of BUIS, a pair of glove and 1 barrel.. use water to cool barrel. There i just saved you 1000s of dollar towards your mm21e.


You really need both mcr and mm21e....and if you have mental problems like me youll need the mm22e mm23 conversion kits to collect the set.


The only spare parts you need for the MCR at you're rate of use of use is about 5 oprod springs for the year.

Duplicate post

I think the base mm21e cost me 12.5 and you get 1000 free assesories if you pay upfront
I got 2500 in assesories but i paid up front and was quoted approx 4 month leadtime ...its been a year now and its not done.

You could have your shrike tommarrow, just that makes it a no brainer....unless you alreasy have a mcr.
The mcr is a great entry level beltfed....dont waste your time with the fm9

Use code "LD2017" through 9/5 for 20% off and free shipping


Just got emailed the promotion.

MCR-036S

Short heavy adjustable barrel, good feed tray no sites....3,057.60 shipped


Thats a steal. I should order one

Yes, forgot to mention about the sale!
Thanks for your input... I think I'm going to go with a new Fightlite shorty upper.
12mts wait time? dang....
BTW, is it really safe to cool the hot barrel in the water?

What other spare parts should I get with MCR upper purchase?
Since they're having a 20% off sale, I'm considering picking up some necessary spare parts.

I think MCR-036S doesn't have a full-auto carrier, am I wrong?
Should I get the full-auto model MCR-060S or keymod model MCR-060KM?

Unless you go full retard water is better than mutiple 6-700 barrels or 1k with sight and handle

Keymod is a personal preference, the FA bolt doesnt cost extra... they may or may not want a form 4 for a sbr or m16 to ship short barrels or BCG.

For the current price of uppers youd be better off buying a spare upper..
All youll need are spare oprods spring..
I have a spare everything an now i wish for the new pricing and coupon code. I may buy another down the road

Ive seen welded semi bolts break, the feed rollers break, ans charging handles break... if you break a charging handle on older models without pulling it your in trouble.. chane your oprod spring every 2000 rds and then shoot 30-50 rounds semi and you'll run at a slower rate of fireand itll last longer.

I forgot to say unless you do 300+ round belt dumps or shoot steel jacketed ammo. Theose heavey barrel last a long time.
One will probibly last you a life time

I'm cheap and only wanted to run w/ steel cased wolf ammo... do they feed reliably in full-auto?

So to cool the hot barrel w/ water, you just drop the barrel into a water bucket?
Will it damage the barrel in any way by dumping into a water bucket?

I will order some spare spare oprods springs... thank you!

Who is running this sale?

The sale is advertised on their website:
fightlite.com

The consensus seems to be if you heat it up enough that water will damage it, its already damaged so cooling it before the next belt dump can only help.

The wolf gold 55g doesnt run....i would like to think the wolf gold 62 grain would run.
If tula/Wolf makes a steel case 62 grain round id give it a try....it will defiantly accelerate barrel wear.

This thread has me dreaming of a belt-fed again!

With the discount code the MCR-060 is $3,531.20 with free shipping and no tax, that is the cheapest I've ever seen.

With that said it doesn't include the $140 mag adaptor ($112 after discount) or the $88 ammo pouch ($70 after discount or $50 on GB) as those are now sold separate.

So at least $3,693 out the door for just the basic bare bones upper, and that's before a spare barrels with handle and front sight ($716 after discount), extra links, ammo pouches, optics, lights, lasers, bipod, grips, accessories, etc...

I want one so bad but every time I run the numbers it ends up being between $5-8k I did this a few months ago and ended up buying an M11/9 instead.

I know what you mean.
That amount is hard to swallow in today's firearm market.
But at the same time, that is also cheapest ticket into belt-fed world.

I have both a Shrike and MM23eK.

I have had the Shrike for 6 to 7 years and the MM23eK for about two to three years.

These are the pros/cons as I see it.

Shrike:

Pros:

Much lighter and is really a single man portable firearm.  (the regular 23/21 is even heavier than the eK variant)
Much more compact than a 23e (ever more compact than the 23eK)
As already mentioned the cost is less than a 1/3rd the cost of a MM23 and less than ~1/6th the cost of German build.
Parts while expensive compared to a normal AR are cheaper than MM variant 21/23e parts and way cheaper than german parts.   Shrike barrels are $500 to $600ish.  MM made 23e barrels are twice that cost.  German barrels are like “whole Shrike” expensive if you can fine one.
Easier to suppress with normal 1/2x28 thread and an adjustable gas block.
My experience is that my Shrike runs just about any brass cased 5.56 or .223 ammo.  Mine loves Wolf Gold.
Better options for optics with the railed top cover that will easily co-witness with many red dots via  the factory iron sights.  Easily removable front sight if your optic doesn’t co-witness.
Technically can run on mags….but who does that.

Cons:

Cycle rate is high using a factory config.  (shrike recoil spring and H3 buffer)
Being lighter the Shrike jumps around more on auto than the 23e.
Feels a bit more flimsy being aluminum.
Known issues with older variants.  (aluminum feed trays, bullet wear in receiver, broken rear lugs, broken charging handle)  Many of these issues appear to have been corrected.
Owner and company doesn’t have the best track record/reputation with many folks publically reporting having challenges with parts and support. (although this appears to be getting better with time)
Somewhat wonky belt box arrangement utilizing the mag well adapter.  (i.e. box hangs real low)  Fixable if you have a sear and are creative with a mill/band-saw.
Not a factory machinegun and is “looked down” upon by some folks who have what they consider to be “real” beltfeds with a military pedigree.
Only shoots 5.56.

21/23e

Pros:
Clone of a factory HK design
Smoother shooting due to overall heavier weight and lower cycle rate.
Overall higher reliability.
Estimated longer system life being all steel.
If you are looking for exclusivity or overall HK snobbery, there are a lot less 23Es out there vs. Shrike’s.
Caliber conversion to 308 and maybe sometime in the future 7.62x39.
Functional 3rd burst with the appropriate pack.
Better belt box arrangement.

Cons:
Expensive acquisition cost
Expensive parts and barrels. (especially if German)
Half Moon rollers if you go with an all German design.
Heavier than you would suspect with a lot of the weight forward of the rear grip affecting balance off-hand.  Depending upon your upper body strength it could be more challenging to shoot accurately unsupported off the shoulder.
Not easily suppressed as almost all fast attach hiders wont fit through the barrel shroud opening unless you cut the shroud.  Also a best practice to change locking pieces to a shallower angle LP.
Optics can be a challenge even with the rail option.  Very few red-dots will co-witness with the HK factory sights and most will have the HK sight ring through the center of the optic.  Cheek weld can be an issue on tall/higher optics.
For me, my 23eK really only runs reliably with 62gr ammo.    With a 20++ locking piece I can get some 55gr ammo to run but I have just stuck with 62gr ammo as its stupid reliable with M855/SS109.   That said folks with the full size don’t appear to report this issue.
Slightly more difficult to swap your HK sear back and forth between grip frames, swap ejectors, etc to fit another 9X host vs. an AR DIAS which is just two pins and drop on an M4 upper.
As mentioned above, long delivery lead times.  Mine took right about a year to be completed.

Overall I believe the MM23e (k) or a German build is a better overall beltfed than the Shrike.  However,  I have a hard time saying that a 21/23e is a 3X better beltfed than the Shrike for what 99% of users on this forum are going to use it for. (i.e. shooting old appliances and watermelons)

The same goes for longevity.  While the 21/23e receiver will undoubtedly last longer than a Shrike…will a 21/23E outlast three or more Shrike’s?  That sounds dubious at best.

Long term parts availability is a slight edge to the 21/23e.  Both of these companies are essentially run by a single person (Geoff or Mike).  If either of them gets hit by a bus there are probably high odds the company will go with them.  However, the HK has a stronger support community and there are always a trickle of german parts.  If Ares/Flightlight goes away will anybody be willing (or legally able) to pick up the design and run with it.

A Shrike is a really good bargain right now with the current 20% off.      I would probably recommend you get your feet wet with the Shrike and then if you still feel compelled to add the $12 to $20K E host to your stable a year or two from now than go for it.

I can tell you that if you have an M60, Shrike, and 23e on the line at a machinegun shoot….the 23e generates the most attention and just looks sinister.

For me I would love to have a Shrike with a steel receiver and charging handle for $5Kish.  Take a slight weight penalty for a receiver but that is multiple times stronger.

Hope this helps and best of luck on your decision.

Edited to add, one other Shrike vs. 23e con is that Shrike is more link sensitive.   The 23 has more bolt over-travel and the bolt weights more so it will more happily digest dirty or overly tight links due to the greater bolt forward inertia.   The Shrike requires you to use the proper US M27 style link (without the hole in them) and its happier when the links are also clean and have been used at least once to stretch them out a bit and smooth the rough park on them.

You really dont need 0r want those assesories, and going without the iron sights and barrel handle saves you money.

You really should buy the $3050 kit and not get a spare barrel... that whole 5-8k things sounds like you trying to talk yourself out of it. I wont allow it...

That's very impressive analysis and pretty much sums it up, Jbntex.
I'm going to order new MCR-060S today.
It's about $600 more than MCR-036, but it does come with a full-auto carrier.

I also wanted to get the base model but it doesn't come with a full-auto carrier... that's only feature I want from that upper setup anyway.
I'm going to use the optic so don't care about the stupid expensive sight set.

I bet if you called them they'd sell you the base model with the FA carrier.
The semi and FA carrier are the same price

Why even make two carriers?

dang... I give them a call tomorrow.

Thanks for the promo code, just got a front site for my 12.5 barrel....

Ares/Flightlite always seems to have been extremely conservative/cautious from a legal perspective.

The consider the full-auto carrier to be some sort of restricted machinegun part and at least in the past have required proof of machinegun ownership prior to selling an end user a full auto carrier.

Same goes for short barrels, they require proof of machinegun or SBR ownership to purchase a short barrel.   Its been awhile since I have bought a barrel from them but historically claiming you were going to use it on a pistol didnt make the qualification to purchase and I always had to send them a copy of a F1 or F4.

Some of the independent vendors/reseller would sell without NFA proof. But Ares and their authorized distributors always required proof to get what they considered a "restricted" part.

They wouldn't even deliver an upper to a state with a magazine capacity ban/restriction as they consider the upper itself to be a "high capacity feed device", even if you were going to use preban links or only use 10 links at a time.  There were a bunch of initial depositors who were left hanging because Ares took a deposit and then wouldnt ship to that depositors state.  I think even folks in Ohio were hung up for awhile as they had a 30rd mag capacity limit on the books for some period of time.

I am not saying I agree with them in any sense, but this has just been my impression of their legal paranoia over the years.   Maybe their lawyers told them to tread carefully with a concern about a politically motivated "reclassification" of their "accessory" into a "firearm"....who knows.

From a technical/legitimate standpoint, their semi auto cut carriers are perfect for registered lightning link owners.

I think it is far more nefarious than that.this isn't a judgement of the current state of the company.
They took peoples money and really fucked up and had to do some real shady things. While some of it if down right terrible if they hadnt done it we wouldnt have $3500 beltfed uppers today.

They outright screwed many people who preordered by saying they couldn't legally ship it which was an outright lie so they could sell the uppers for 4x what the people who preordered paid. the preorders that did get shipped had to wait even longer while ares sold upper for more money to generate capital.
Also the original units fell short of expectations and came without many things they were suppose to have...it cost more to produce than the preorders paid....so the aluminium feedtray was born.

As far as FA BCG groups they used to be real strict about it.. not a big deal if you have a stamp.
By selling semi bolts it allows them to then have to have you buy their 750 proprietary BCG.
Its really not that big of a deal to weld up the semi BCG to FA spec.

They seem to have laid back quite a bit about the FA BCG and Barrels direct from them.
The distributor never really cared and you could get what you need.

I have been wanting to try one of these for a while but did not like how they nickel and dime you with add on's on top of an expensive upper to begin with.  I too want a 12.5" barrel, full auto bolt, mag adapter, bag and pretty much it.  Then I have read all the horror stories some never run right, some need break in, and a few run out of box it seems.  The feed tray and some of the earlier issues seem worked out.  Now that they have models standard with 12.5" barrels and this sale seems like a good time to jump on board.  I tried the 9mm beltfed and gave up.  I was only interested in the short barrel with subsonics which I could never get to run.  Full power loads ran fine and long barrel subs ran fine but short and sub forget it.  And loading the 9mm belts sucked.  I think it is time to try one of these with this sale.  Coolhand let us know if you try and order the 036 with a full auto bolt and what they say?  If they won't swap the carrier it might be worth the extra $200 to get the 060 with the barrel handle and front sight with it.

I've talked with Fightlite but they wouldn't swap out the semi to full-auto carrier.
Only option is to buy about $600 more 060 model, and it comes with a full-auto bolt and other accessories that I don't need.
Anyway, they no longer required to obtain a copy of form-4 or 1 from you... I thought that was a positive move.

Okay thanks for checking.  I had a feeling that would be the case.  

So for you guys that own these if I only intend to suppress occasionally is it better to get the 12.5" or 16" barrel.  Reason I ask is there were some other threads that said the 12.5" adjustable gas barrel needs really hot ammo to function without a suppressor.  As far as I can tell all the barrels now are adjustable or at least the ones listed on FL's website.  My first thought was go with the 12.5 so it's not a mile long with a suppressor but now I am thinking go with the 16" so it is more tolerant of ammo.  Any advise would be appreciated.

Suppressors add a lot of heat, given full auto rates of fire and belts of ammunition, I don't see shooting suppressed much.


I would probably get the 16.

I bought the ARES Shrike, or now called the Fightlite MCR, mainly because it was cheaper. The HK-23E is better no doubt about it, but it's not cheap at all to get into one of these. Micheal Machines makes a good clone for around $12K or so. The Shrike is more of a range toy, and the MM-23E could actually be used in war. I have to baby my Shrike to keep her running right. But I mean for around $5K or so, it's still a full-auto 5.56mm belt-fed and that's really cool!!! 

Can you run Wolf 62gr steel cased 223 reliably in full-auto w/ 12.5" barrel setup?

I dont baby mine.
I run some pretty light 62 reloads. A 62g going 2800fps from a 16" barrel works great. They also run through the 12.5. I just never shot it over the chrony. Wolf 62g should work.. i know the 55 does not.

Thanks! great to hear...

Good to know the 12.5 runs okay not suppressed.  I wonder what it is with the 55grain stuff?  I thought pressure wise M193 was actually hotter than M855 for example.  Not a big deal just curious.  

Military Arms Channel just did a review of the MCR upper (only semi-auto) but it ran all the ammo he tried in it.  I know semi and full auto are two different worlds of complication but thought it was one of the better videos about the MCR so far.

Here is the video if anyone wants to watch it (sorry can't imbed from my iPad) Will will fix when back on my desktop.

 https://youtu.be/d_QRcZnr4n4

Thanks for the info

I have no reasonable explaination as to why alot of 55g doesnt work... ares does tell you that 55g isn't ideal.

I just ordered Keymod version of 060 w/ auto-bolt... hope she runs good.
Still miss my old HK23E clone but not 3 times as much LOL
I must admit, 3 times price difference & 1+ year wait... choice was pretty clear after their 20% off sale.
I also know that I'm getting the latest version of MCR plus factory warranty... that's a big plus for me.
Many thanks to everyone who helped me to make a educated & money saving decision.

Did you go 12.5 or 16?  Any reason in particular you went with keymod over pic?  I am planning really only to put a vertical handgrip on mine and more options with pic I think.

Thanks MGnoob for all the advise and feedback.  I have probably another 2-3 months before my RDIAS transfer clears so have plenty of time to break one in on an SBR in semi.

I went with shortest overall length as possible.
It seems like even on used market, shorty one with auto-bolt always popular and move faster (in case I want to upgrade to MM23E).

Keymod is more personal choice as stated by MGnoob.
Just like you, I'm only planning to put a grip pod and none of other high-tech devices.
The new MCR has Fightlight logo but it seems like older model only had picatinny rails, so I went with a little bit more modern looking Keymod.
It was purely based on my person preference.

Please let us know what you got.
Oh, I also got some bolt rehab kit, extra op-spring and upper spring kit as well.

The whole break in thing really just wears in the oprod spring, after 2500rds youll change it and may need to "break it in" again dependings on ammo and barrel length.

My personal preference is picitanny.

Get yourself some links.
Get a .375 rod (i used stainless)
Grind a tapered point on 1 end and and a radius on the other.
Use the point for straitening bent links and the radius for stretching links.
Wear gloves.

Great advice MGnoob!
I already have a link stretcher & brass tumbler from old gen MCR that I sold at some time ago.
It really makes huge difference.
I also put them into the brass tumbler and add some polisher.  
After about an hour, they all come out nice and smooth.
Thanks for you oprod spring tip... I will make sure follow your recommendation.
I'm fairly surprised that it only last for 2.5K rounds....wow

Sprinco springs are rated for 1 million+ cycles. I wonder how a Sprinco orange spring would perform.

I ordered a 12.5" 060 last night.  I went back and forth between picatinny or keymod and decided pic.  Then when I went to check out forgot to switch back uppers in my cart so ended up hitting the place order with the keymod in the cart  I ordered the extended bolt catch as I could not figure if the upper came with the nicer one or just a top cut off one.  I also added the nut bag and mag adapter.  I thought about spare parts but figure it's probably 3 months before my RDIAS clears so I am semi only to break it in the springs and all should be fine.

Now onto ammo and links.  The surplus sarge sight has once fired M27 links but not sure if they are the ATK that everyone recommends.  I guess if I wet tumble with pins for an hour and make a "stretcher" of some sort it won't matter.  For the first 200 rounds I intend to break it in with M855 but then switch to whatever 62 grain is least expensive.  I used to load .223 but with the lubing, sizing, trimming it's such a hassle I only load pistol anymore.  At least right now ammo prices have relaxed.  If you guys have a recommendation on links and ammo from shopping around please share.

Did you contact them to correct the purchase w/ picatinny model?

I think you might need a 200rds box modified to fit high on your magwell.
I searched my E-mail box for you but couldn't find the seller's info

Once fired link should be fine if you've time to stretch them with a tool.
It works even better if you tumble them with a polisher... it makes the rink fairly smooth.
I even used the 100rds bag that came from the Ares and some had to restretch anyway.

For spare parts, they usually run 20% off sale with goody pack during the black Friday, so no need to rush everything.
However, this is the first time I've seen w/ 12.5" upper sale, so I jumped on it... I could be wrong,

Yea, I emailed them right after I ordered wrong they have already emailed me back and said they would change the order for me so good there.  I remember reading about a modified magwell or box that does not hang as low in some of the older threads.  I thought with the 20% off sale the soft bag will work for now even though it it not ideal.  Good tip on the black friday sale that is in a few months.  I will certainly order some parts and maybe a spare barrel then.  I too am very glad they are selling with 12.5" barrel now and not an add on.    If you find info on the box please post or PM me.

It wouldnt.....unless you plan to run a bufferspring as an oprod spring..(it oviously wont fit)


I find changing them out at 2500rds to be a good practice. But thats 2500rds of belt dumping.
It gets hot and causes it to fail, while the gun still runs after the ROF increases and its just ruff on the gun.

Its really the only maintenance you can do to prolong the life of your unit.
I wish they weren't $14-$19 apiece, when i tried to match them up it didnt seem like i could get them much cheaper.
I suspect a braided spring might last longer...

Sarges links should be fine.... if i ever need more links for the MCR rather than streach them i. Going to just run them through the MM23e a few times.

Tom Cassidy makes modified 200 rd belt boxes that hold 150-180 rounds and sit higher up in the mag well which is idea for a RR

If you have a RLL or RDIAS a high cut mag well is best. There is a company that makes a modular lower. Can't think of the name.

you can contact the company that produced this custo lower


Or just make one yourself it's easy, just dremel the magwell and cut down a mag well adaptor so it's smaller.

Gotcha, I was thinking you were talking about main spring replacement

Somewhat ironically I have worn out a Sprinco extra power buffer spring that I used in my Shrike (where it would no longer reliably strip rounds from the links) but am still on the original Op-rod spring.  I am on a second sprinco enhanced buffer spring right now.  

What problems did you experience with the op-rod springs after 2500rds? as my original op rod spring is waaayyyy past that mark without any functional issues.

After 2500 rds if you compare a used spring to a new one the used ones are 1/3 to 1/2 the lenght of a new one. The coils one either end are touching.....it would probably still function till 10,000 rds probibly not a good idea though...keeping carbon off the oprods helps the spring last alittle longer.

As far as buffer spring i prefer the ares or MGI 3x springs. Can't say ive worn one out, but its probibly time to replace it..
I have spares but was waiting for failure.

I known its off topic, i am completely dieing to get my mm21e. Im goihg to have to give him a call today.
Ive been quite patient and now im going to have to start nagging.