I have 1000+ rounds through my 12" MCR upper on a full auto lower. Had numerous issues with the bolt failing to strip new rounds from the belt. I ordered the MG34 spring with intentions to cut down, as I've read that has worked well for some to solve this problem.

I've been shooting Magtech factory linked 55gr M193.  This morning I linked up a couple hundred rounds of Federal 62gr XM855, which had no problems failing to strip from the belt. I'm not sure if that was due to different ammo or the links being a little more stretched since they were once fired.

In the 200 round belt, I got 5 light primer strikes. There was a definite indention in the primer but about 1/2 as deep as rounds that had fired successfully. I haven't read about an extra power hammer spring being needed and would be surprised if I got a bad lot of ammo.  I loaded all 5 rounds into a magazine and ran them again. All fired.

The biggest (most annoying) issue I'm having is the ejection. I shoot left handed. Running the factory supplied spring w/ spacer, Spikes H2 buffer and the gas port setting is on 3, the highest. The brass ejects rearward and literally just hits my right shoulder and basically falls in my lap. For kicks I tried gas port setting 2, and I was rewarded with it hitting me in the face.  With over 1k rounds through the upper it should be well broken in and was detail cleaned last night. I should be able to run port setting 2 and have it eject to the right, or even throwing the brass forward a bit.

Of course Fitelight does not answer emails or their phone.

From what I’ve heard and read, Ares has always had stellar customer unservice.

Good luck with that.

And not that I’m laughing, but I’m laughing.

I already posted about the ammo in the last thread you posted a few days ago...did you read that?
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Ran-my-Fightlite-MCR-for-the-first-time-today/23-500172/

I use a Geissele SSF with the standard supplied springs with no issues.
Are you sure it is an 'H2' not a 'T2'???

Spike's typically does a T2 which is using Tungsten POWDER not solid weights.  The powder doesn't have the dead blow hammer affect as does solid weights.  I'd highly recommend you run a standard H2 if you are having light primer hits using the T2.

I have two 12" barrels.  One that is a spare and another with a lot of rounds through it.  Mine only runs on port 3, highest.  I only test fired my spare barrel but I seem to recall it had to be on 4 also.  
Now my 16" barrel works on all the port settings.

You are correct, I was using a T2 buffer. I will source an H2.

Thoroughly cleaned BCG and firing pin. Switched to a standard carbine weight buffer, gas setting 3. Ejection moved to 4-4:30, not perfect but an improvement no doubt. Fired a ~125rnd belt of XM855. All went well until the last few inches on the belt where I got a light primer strike.

Switched to the Magtech 55gr, shot about 50 rounds, was failing to strip from the belt every few rounds. No surprise with the lighter buffer, wider ammo and new links. One light primer strike.

I would _really_ like to get the Magtech ammo to run since I've got 20k+ rounds of it.  And baffled by the light primer strikes.  FCG pins are in place. LPK is new. Built the receiver just for this upper.

My other post to your other thread also references other threads discussing various buffers / springs for the Shrike.

I got mine back in 2006.  I had initially started out with an H buffer then went to an H2.  I had occasional light strikes for the first couple thousand or so.  Then ran the crap out of it till the impact lug on the carrier sheared off.

I met with Geoff the owner/creator of the Shrike here in FL at his facility.  
He replaced the carrier at no charge and said it had a bad heat treat.  However, he did warn/remind me that all these front end 'piston' systems put more stress on the op rod and impact lug whenever you go heavy on the buffer.  
With the regular AR gas system (which is a 'stationary piston' as mentioned in Stoner's patent.....NOT DI like everyone calls it) doesn't have this issue.  You go to a buffer that is too heavy in a standard AR and worst thing that will happen is it just won't cycle.

However, looking over the past 13 years, a lot of people are running H2 (4.5 oz) , H3 (5.3 oz) and heavier....all the way up to the MGI (6.8 oz) buffer and custom ones.
I don't recall seeing others post about a broken carrier like I had.

A lot of people are also stretching and / or lubing links.

I have never resorted to stretching or lubing links.  I have a lot of links I got back in 2006-7 that are all used.... most likely once fired pick up from surplus sources.

I think most people that are stretching / lubing links are also using steel cased or non-domestic brass cased ammo.

Back in the early 2000's, Sportsmansguide was selling cheap brass cased South African 5.56 that is actually Berdan primed.  Myself and many others stocked up on that stuff waiting on the Shrike.  That stuff is fatter than domestic 556 brass and requires more force to strip off non-lubed/stretched links as well...but again, I never went heavier than an H2 and my Shrike worked great till the carrier broke.

Still works great to this day after replacing the carrier.

In conclusion, I think you can run that Magtech ammo if you stretch/lube links and/or go to an H3 assuming that the H2 doesn't fix it for you.
I personally think stretching/lubing links is a pain and wouldn't do that.

I would get an H2 first and if that doesn't work move to the H3.

If you are getting almost malfunction free with the tungsten powder Spikes T2, I think it would run malfunction free w/ the H2 which has more of the dead blow affect than powder.

If not, move up to the H3.

Once you have burned through several thousand rounds then you can try more spring / buffer configurations.

I don't know if you like the high RoF that you will get with the H2, H3.

It is fun for a while but it is just too high for my tastes and going too heavy on the buffer makes me worry about a break (even though others seem to be fine) and I think adding too much reciprocating mass just makes it too bouncy.

I love my current configuration which is:
A5 tube / 308 Tubb spring and 9mm Kynshot hydraulic
It is very smooth and in the 600's with that setup.

However, I don't think your MCR is broken in enough to function with that combination yet.

Again, as posted on my site: http://c3junkie.com/?page_id=654
You can see that this setup works with LC ammo and not Wolf Gold which is slightly fatter.  However, I'm not stretching/lubing links either.

Shrike with A5, 308 Tubbs spring and 9mm Blitzkrieg/Kynshot.In both tests below max gas setting was used
Short barrel M855 630 RPM
Short barrel Wolf Gold 542 RPM  only 9 rounds failed to feed 10th.

16" Barrel Low gas
M855 662 RPM only fired 9 rounds, failure to feed 10th round
Wolf Gold  5 rounds and failure to feed 6th round

16" Barrel Med gas
M855 693 RPM
M193 661 RPM
Wolf Gold only 4 rounds and failure to feed 5th round

16" Barrel High gas
Wolf Gold 574 RPM on 9 rounds, 10th round failure to feed.
Did not bother to test M855/M193 since it was working on the Med gas settings

it's hard to follow amphibian's post as he has had his shrike longer than I and I'd say his opinion is an expert one, but just wanted to relate my experience with the same issues you're having.

I actually stretched a lot of my links and the problems stripping rounds seemed to disappear for the most part, as previously stated most likely due to the brass being wider for certain types of ammo, these days I shoot a lot of Wolf gold 55grn which works fine in stretched links for me.

As for a solution without stretching links there was a guy who made a bullet guide that would keep the nose of the round on the feed ramp instead of it raising due to tight links and getting caught on the receiver itself just above the feed ramp, if you have marks above your feed ramp that may be the cause of your issues with stripping rounds from links.

sadly the gentleman doesn't produce them anymore. I'm in the process of remaking these and when its good to go I'll find a way to post some 3d printer friendly plans, I actually got my first sample in the mail yesterday but I have to tweek it and edit the 3d model some.

I also remember seeing someone's shrike that had a brass deflector added to it, I'm sure it was a one off job but if I recall correctly I think the whole gun was painted tan  I'll see if I can find the picture

picture of Shrike brass deflector

I love the look of this custom setup

I wet tumble my links for a short while using stainless pins, then stretch and lube with silicon spray.

They’re pretty dirty if they’re used, and in my gun that sand and dirt increases drag.

Other than that the setup is just as Ares says to use.

Works in my M16 with a Geissele full auto trigger.

Whatever problems I had at first was not doing it exactly like Ares says.

Put an MG34 spring in cut to 30 coils and blast away.

Anyone tried a Sprinco Orange spring?  They're pretty stiff.

Tumbled links and an H2 is where I would start.

Advice needed ....  Have run about 300 rounds of M193 through the rifle with new MCR upper. Followed the fight lite break in instructions. Fires semi auto great when magazine or belt fed.  Fires full auto great when magazine fed. Will not cycle when in full auto mode and belt fed, fires once and next round does not feed. I have installed the buffer spring and buffer that came with the upper.  Any advice please?  Thank you

See 2 posts above.

OP here.. I followed falcom's advise with the MG34 spring cut to 30 coils.

RUNS FLAWLESSLY on new or used links.

Thanks for the update!

A short explanation.
1.The Shrike is an extremely tight tolerance machine - think the opposite of an AK.
2.The length of a M16 receiver is barely able to support the beltfeed components. Did you ever wonder why the spacer is required in the buffer tube?
Why couldn't the camming lug be placed an 1/8 of inch further forward.It is because that extra length was needed to get enough leverage to move the feed lever with enough force to move the belt.

A standard M27 link requires about 7 pounds of force to strip the cartridge from the link. If you stretch links so that less than 5 pounds of force is required to strip cartridges then they will feed from the standard Shrike spring/ buffer combination.

I am sure that as the Shrike loosens up with wear/usage , the bolt will move a lot faster and a weaker spring could be used without having to stretch links.

PS
I have stretched links,lubed, links, used Teflon coated links, measured them, used several different spring/buffer combinations and all work to some degree.

I am 97% sure that Mark in HI stopped making the feed tray bullet guides because all the new Shrikes/MCR's have a redesigned feed tray that fixed the "bullet nose dive into aluminum" problem

I don't know why Mark in HI stopped making them but I recently purchased one their redesigned feed trays for my early (very early) Shrike and it does indeed fix the "bullet nose dive into aluminum" problem. So I'd say your 100%.

I took a bit of a chance buying the new one as my unit had a metal feed tray (M249 modified I believe) to begin with and as most know the metal tray they offer now is pretty pricy but in the end it's exactly what the upper needed and exactly what I was after so win win I figure.

marks

Falcom, I followed your directions regarding installation of MG34 spring and my Fightlite MCR now runs full auto perfectly while being belt fed. Thank you, I greatly appreciate yours and the others shooters on AR15.com for the help.

Falcom, I followed your directions regarding installation of MG34 spring and my Fightlite MCR now runs full auto perfectly while being belt fed. Thank you, I greatly appreciate yours and the other shooters on AR15.com for the help.

If you use the heavier MG34 spring be aware that it may slam fire when feeding from magazines. The bolt goes forward with a lot of oomph without the drag of the link extraction.

Not yet on the Orange.  Just ordered the MG34 as recommended in this thread.

You think wet-tumbling is necessary, or just the regular old tumbler will get it done?

I finally got the Ares to function with belts.  Only 1 FTF in 220 rounds.  Fwiw, that was on both the #2 and #3 gas port settings.  Thanks for the advice, gentlemen.  Not sure which of it worked because more than one change was made.

Links were tumbled, stretched, and lubed.  The (cut-down) MG34 spring was installed.  I also removed the Mark Genovese feed guide, just in case it was causing problems rather than fixing them.  Next time I'll put the feed guide back in and lighten up the buffer (4.9 oz currently), then see if it still runs.

The price sucks, but this brass/link catcher is still money well-spent.  They show it with the FM9, but it works the same on the MCR.  QD mount.

$219.95

I have that catcher for my FM-9.  Works great.

Was soooooo close to buying an FM-9, but since the kinks weren't worked out of the MCR I didn't.  

That FM-9 looks pretty sweet.. Going to have to look into that.

Glad your MCR mod worked out.  I haven't had any issues with mine yet, but it is still pretty new (low round count).
Have you found anything that looks like it might break and need spare parts?  I'm thinking of purchasing some part just in case one day they disappear.

I recently bought a 12" MCR upper direct from Fight light so im assuming it has all the upgrades.  I mounted it  on my SBR lower and put a binary trigger in it but i have run about 500 rounds with my buddies M16  lower.  we used the supplied spring, washer and a T3 buffer.  I have had zero issues except when ive messed around with the gas settings to see what it would do at lower pressure.  
On full auto and gas position 3 using linked greentips  unsuppressed it has a very slow ROF, im guessing 600-650.

suppressed position 3  its sounds like a buzz saw, 800rpm maybe?  

suppressed gas position is 2 just a little slower but still fast.

position 1 with suppressor feels about like 600-650.  

I even ran about 25 linked steel case wolf 55gr on position 3, suppressed with no issues.

only issues was:
linked greentip unsuppressed position 2, failure to feed.  runs great at position 3.

Just thought i would share my positive experience.  i read a few horror stories on here and almost didnt buy the MCR because of them.  Im very happy with my purchase though and it seems fightlight has work out whatever kinks some of the earlier models had.  

Well spoke too soon.  On the original SA version of the MCR appears to work, but on FA lower with a new FA carrier it fails to fire every other round.

Took it home and cut down one of my spare MG34 springs I had lying around and as I was trying to judge the best length to cut the spring (to prevent binding) I discovered my carrier doesn't go back far enough to even have the bolt catch.

I moved a spacer that was in the Ares lower which was said to be needed to the problem lower.. With it removed it looks like it will cycle far enough to catch the bolt and doesn't look like there will be any carrier hits the back. I have to double check with the upper attached later.

I have my fightlite on a semi lower.  Went to fire it for the first time the other day and it won't even strip the first round to charge the gun

Using recommended spring?
ALK links?
LC M855 or LC M193?

Possibly your links are too tight

I don't even know.  It was Federal something I pulled out of some boxes.  Spring is just a plane ole carbine length tube spring.  I have an MG34 spring on the way.  All links are brand new.  

I know this, I'm not stretching links.  I'll sell the thing before I go to that trouble.  I can't believe something that expensive is this finicky.  Can you tell I'm frustrated?

I got a new 6th Gen MCR upper from Reuben a couple of months ago. On it’s initial outing it would not strip the first round out of the belt on a Colt semi auto lower, but I hadn’t put the buffer and spring in it that Fightlite ships with it. It would feed from the magazine with no problem.
After I put the buffer and spring that it came with it ran no problems with 62grain 5.56. I haven’t tried 55grain but 62grain is what it’s made for. The links that it came with are new and tight and PITA to even load,, so I lubricate them before I load them and it has worked no problem for me since then. I’m planning on running it on my Colt RR this weekend weather permitting and if I can bring myself to hammer the bolt catch roll pin out.

Good info.  I have an H3 buffer.  I plan to put the MG34 spring in and see what happens.  If still gives trouble, I think I'll just shoot it from mags to it broke in a bit.

Edited above to add, I only run 62grain in the belt.

Yeah...a regular carbine spring is not strong enough to strip rounds from links.

I have the most rounds downrange using the Ares provided spring and H2 buffer.

BTW, I've never stretched or lubed links either.

I only use brass cased ammo.  Steel cased ammo requires more force to be stripped off.  Not saying it won't work.

When I got home (we were shooting at a family members when I went to shoot it from belts for the first time), I stuck a mag in and it wouldn't fully chamber from a mag either.  I'm really hopeful that the MG34 spring will solve my woes.  The rounds from the belt were 55 gr and I expected to have trouble because of that, but I couldn't even get it to chamber the first time around so it didn't really matter they wer 55 gr.  I really only plan to use 62 gr once I get serious about making it work.

I can’t speak about MCR’s that are well broken in, but just from watching YouTube reviews, particularly NFA review channel, apparently new MCR’s will not reliably feed 55grain ammunition from either belt or magazine. He has multiple FTF stoppages with magazines trying to run 55grain in his review video and speaks about the manufacturer recommending only 62grain ammunition.

Interesting.. Never saw anything from Fightlite needing to use 62gr ammunition. I'll have to look that up.

Definitely mine had issues firing from a magazine as well as from the belt on my own setup. Not sure why the old setup was able to run in semi auto. I'll have to try the 62gr vs 55gr to see if this is the case.

I put my Fightlite on my Colt M16 lower today for the 1st time. I ran it on a semi auto Colt lower previously for function check for about 100 rounds.
Anyway, at the range today, only ran 62grain ammunition started with a 30 round magazine, ran no problem. Brought 4 belts of about 40 to 50 rounds. I lightly lubed the links before linking the ammunition with them. Set the gas system on the adverse setting for the 1st belt with the 12.5in barrel, assuming it would have trouble stripping the new links. Started in SA for about 3 rounds and then went to FA, and it ran like a sewing machine, just guessing probably at 750rpm.. Put a suppressor on for the 2nd belt and placed gas system in the “standard” or normal setting, and it ran great at a crazy ROF, probably 900rpm. Switched to the 16in barrel ran a belt through unsuppressed, again with no issues. Ran the last belt with the 12.5in barrel unsuppressed and again it ran fine. Put together a couple more belts alternating barrels and suppressor, . Ran everything in the “standard” gas setting even with suppressed. I used the Fightlite supplied H3 buffer and buffer spring, which is longer than a carbine spring. All in all pleased so far. The ONLY down side was I nicked my receiver switching to the Fightlite bolt catch. ...BUT oh well.

Does anyone have a pic of the bullet guide that Mark Genovese made and what the new feed tray looks like that solves the tip up issue? Also where are y'all ordering the MG34 springs from? Seen a few sources, wondering if y'all have a favorite.

@ashar1701 @marks

Places for MG34 parts would be
BRP Corp
Sarco
IMA
GunBroker

I'm looking at the upper, it has the milled feed tray, I can clearly see where the bullet tip has been hitting the receiver above the barrel extension feed ramp and started making a divot. The archives are no longer accessible for now but I recall seeing a pic of the Mark G. guide piece in a thread. If anyone has a few pics I'd appreciate it.

If you can find it on Google, there's a little triangle that allows you to load the Cache.. I've been doing that to load old posts I happen to search for.

Here is a picture of my Mark Genovese top cover feed ramp insert.

Attached File


I have both the original aluminum feed tray that allowed the bullet tips to hit the aluminum receiver and wear it as well as the updated steel billet feed tray.  I don't know where the old aluminum feed tray is (in a box somewhere) but the difference is the how the cutout in the front of the feedtray was designed.

The old feed tray had a much taller "football" shaped cutout that exposed the aluminum received.  The new design the cutout was lower and more round protecting that section of the receiver.

Old feed tray ramp profile in Red and newer profile in green.  You can see the wear my receiver had prior to updating the feed tray and installing the insert.  In the feedramp picture above you can see the updated feed tray cutout as well.

Attached File



Ultimately Ares went to a hardened steel block pinned into the receiver so there is no longer an aluminum M4 style feed ramp on the receiver itself as that area is hardened steel now which really removes the need for the Mark Genovese top cover insert.

Here's a link of the old archive:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-Ares-MCR-and-RLL-question/23-470757/?page=1



Thanks for the photo.  How is the insert held into place?

Thanks for finding those pics, those were mine when I used to have stuff on photobucket.

On the feed ramp, it is just held in with friction.  The instructions were to gently sand the side of the feed block insert until you could press it in with a medium amount of force.

I sanded mine and then pressed in in using my shop press if memory serves correctly.

Was it flush to the top cover's edge?  I was thinking of making one for my MCR.

This is what I am seeing on the upper, it has the milled feed tray. I don't know the history or if it has been run with 55gr or 62 gr. It hasn't been run much but I can see where the bullet nose could cause a stoppage if it's catching at the barrel extension.  

The big flat areas to the left and right of the ramp are basically flush with the bottom edges of the feed cover.   However, the "ramp" definitely protrudes lower than the edges of the feed tray.

If you want I can try and grab a profile pic for you.

That is definitely an older gen unit and is very similar to how mine came with the aluminum M4 style ramp in the receiver and the older milled aluminum allow tray.

I don't think it matters what ammo you shoot, if you run the older Shrikes (without the steel ramp insert in the receiver), using the old feed tray, design, and without the top cover insert the bullet nose will impact the receiver and eventually wear the receiver away past the point of the hardened barrel extension and the bullets will eventually get hung up at that point.  Apparently once this happens it quickly makes the situation worse as the bullet tip getting stuck quickly makes that wear/divot in the receiver worse.

When these units first came out this was a significant problem and Ares partially corrected it with the updated feed tray to force the bullet tip farther downward and into the ramps of the steel barrel extension vs. contacting the softer ramp in the aluminum upper.  Mark came out with his top cover feed block which also helped to mitigate this issue as well for those who didnt want to purchase new expensive feed trays from Ares.

I ended up adding the new feed tray andtop cover ramp insert and its been a non-issue for me.

One of my friends here in town as the latest gen Flightlite version with the steel ramp insert in the receiver which is probably the best solution. (although I believe they stuck with the updated feed tray design)

If the price is right the older units run fine, however I would replace the feed tray with a new version to better protect the receiver.  Unfortunately Mark doesn't sell the top cover inserts anymore.