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Posted: 9/12/2022 5:01:39 PM EDT
I'm at the point that I'm ready to engrave my form 1 device, and I've decided to engrave the endcap. I came up with two designs: all text aligned in the same top to bottom direction like a coin and text that is oriented radially from the center so that the top of the letter is away from the center and are always facing the same way as you spin the cap.

I assume it's all aesthetics vs. anything ATF requires, but what did others that engrave the endcap do? Thanks!

Paul
Link Posted: 9/12/2022 6:30:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 9/13/2022 12:18:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the pictures. I like the look of that where the bottom of the text is aligned toward the center.

I was planning on engraving the endcap vs. the mount. Are there advantages/disadvantages of each? I have a CNC router that I was planning on using so it is just another setup/start if I need to do both.
Link Posted: 9/13/2022 12:40:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the pictures. I like the look of that where the bottom of the text is aligned toward the center.

I was planning on engraving the endcap vs. the mount. Are there advantages/disadvantages of each? I have a CNC router that I was planning on using so it is just another setup/start if I need to do both.
View Quote


I would assume that there would be less change of damage to the mounting surface vs getting an endcap strike…
Link Posted: 9/13/2022 12:58:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


I would assume that there would be less change of damage to the mounting surface vs getting an endcap strike…
View Quote


This.
End cap most likely place to strike.
Mount, now you can only use that mount. If that's ok, then not a bad option.
I did the tube like most commercial made cans.
Link Posted: 9/13/2022 1:41:04 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe the new reinterpretation of the law from the ATF states the tube must be engraved. All part of the new "What a receiver is" edict.   Just a heads-up.

Edit: Here's the text:  

Marking Firearm Muffler or Silencer Parts and Transfers for Further Manufacturing or Repair
Under the Final Rule, manufacturers and makers of complete muffler or silencer devices only
need to mark the part of the device that is designated the frame or receiver.

The new rule defines Firearm muffler or silencer frame or receiver at 27 C.F.R. 478.12(b) –

The terms “frame” and “receiver” shall mean, in the case of a firearm muffler or firearm
silencer, the part of the firearm, such as an outer tube or modular piece, that provides
housing or a structure for the primary internal component designed to reduce the sound
of a projectile (i.e., baffles, baffling material, expansion chamber, or equivalent). In the
case of a modular firearm muffler or firearm silencer device with more than one such
part, the terms shall mean the principal housing attached to the weapon that expels a
projectile, even if an adapter or other attachments are required to connect the part to the
weapon. The terms shall not include a removable end cap of an outer tube or modular
piece.

The end cap of a silencer cannot be a “frame” or “receiver.” In most cases, the “frame” or
“receiver” would be the outer tube or the principal housing attached to the weapon. In the case
of a multi-piece frame or receiver, if there are two or more similar subparts that make up a multipiece frame or receiver then those subparts would be marked with the same serial number.

Minor components of silencers would not need to be engraved or registered when transferred
between Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOTs). A subpart of a firearm muffler or silencer that
is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time sold must be identified by an
individual serial number. Therefore, any firearm muffler or silencer part transferred separately
to an individual that is not a SOT must be marked and registered and transferred in accordance
with the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Thus, there should be very few circumstances in which there is more than one unique serial
number placed on a weapon (e.g., remanufactured or imported firearm where the manufacturer or
importer chooses to mark their own serial number rather than adopting an existing serial
number).

The definition of “transfer” in Part 479 now excludes temporary conveyances solely for repair,
identification, evaluation, research, testing, or calibration and return to the same lawful
possessor.

With respect to parts defined as firearm mufflers or silencers, which are difficult to mark and
record, the Final Rule allows them to be transferred between qualified licensees (SOT) for
purposes of further manufacture or repair of complete devices without immediately marking and
registering them in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (“NFRTR”)
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 8:34:56 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:I believe the new reinterpretation of the law from the ATF states the tube must be engraved.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:I believe the new reinterpretation of the law from the ATF states the tube must be engraved.

Yeah, footnote 140 kinda drives the point home

140. Under this rule, the frame or receiver of a muffler or silencer is the part that provides housing or a structure for the primary internal component designed to reduce the sound of a projectile. Typically, this is the largest external part, or outer tube, without which the device would have no structure to hold the primary internal sound reduction component(s) and that is marked with a serial number, registered in the NFRTR, and for which excise tax must be paid. ATF has long taken the position that the creation of the outer tube results in the making of a new silencer, see 26 U.S.C. 5845(i) (definition of “make”), and the fact that a tube is used to replace a damaged outer tube is of no consequence because a functional device cannot be made without it. For this reason, the new regulatory text expressly excludes muffler or silencer frames or receivers from being transferred for replacement purposes without marking, recording, and registering them in accordance with 27 CFR parts 478 and 479.


While, yes, you could have scenarios this wouldn't be 100% true, +99% of silencers fit this category.


This part could change how a lot of end users are buying "spare" end caps, at retail.
A subpart of a firearm muffler or silencer that
is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time sold must be identified by an
individual serial number. Therefore, any firearm muffler or silencer part transferred separately
to an individual that is not a SOT must be marked and registered and transferred in accordance
with the National Firearms Act (NFA).
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 9:08:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yeah, footnote 140 kinda drives the point home



While, yes, you could have scenarios this wouldn't be 100% true, +99% of silencers fit this category.


This part could change how a lot of end users are buying "spare" end caps, at retail.
View Quote


The ATF has already said if you are Form 1 a can and buy any premade part it already was a suppressor and illegal for you to have unless you form 4 it.
Not just end caps but the mount also. So is changing my can from QD to direct thread going to require taking it to a SOT to have done?

FATF, this shit has to stop.
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 9:25:29 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:So is changing my can from QD to direct thread going to require taking it to a SOT to have done?
View Quote

Can you not just have an adapter made, which DT's to the muzzle and adapts to the mount?
It'd be like chopping the front of your QD muzzle device off and Rockset'n it into the mount.
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 10:04:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Can you not just have an adapter made, which DT's to the muzzle and adapts to the mount?
It'd be like chopping the front of your QD muzzle device off and Rockset'n it into the mount.
View Quote


My R9 came with DT only, it needs a different mount type to use a pistol booster.

A better example would be buying a Sico can and changing the QD to a Dead Air type to match other cans you have.
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 10:25:34 AM EDT
[#10]
@AR_Dale
An SOT shouldn't have an issue doing this. Someone like @sixtysixduece (ECCO)
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 10:31:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@AR_Dale
An SOT shouldn't have an issue doing this. Someone like @sixtysixduece (ECCO)
View Quote


My point is I can do it at my house or range now with a wrench.
So every time I want to move my can from PCC to pistol I need to send to SOT?
What about use it on a pistol with a different thread. Need SOT to change the piston?
Link Posted: 9/14/2022 11:21:02 AM EDT
[#12]
@AR_Dale
If you want to thread on an external booster, that's fine. A booster never has been a silencer part.
The selling of mount adapters hasn't come up, but there are scenarios where an SOT would probably be best. And, honestly, I was thinking you were using a permanent mount, not a thread.
However, ATF's new ruling could more clearly define (in other words, cause more concern/issues) what are and are not silencer parts. They've, now, specifically included phrases like "provides housing or a structure for the primary internal component" and "A subpart of a firearm muffler or silencer that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time sold must be identified by an individual serial number."

Link Posted: 9/14/2022 11:41:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@AR_Dale
If you want to thread on an external booster, that's fine. A booster never has been a silencer part.
The selling of mount adapters hasn't come up, but there are scenarios where an SOT would probably be best. And, honestly, I was thinking you were using a permanent mount, not a thread.
However, ATF's new ruling could more clearly define (in other words, cause more concern/issues) what are and are not silencer parts. They've, now, specifically included phrases like "provides housing or a structure for the primary internal component" and "A subpart of a firearm muffler or silencer that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time sold must be identified by an individual serial number."

View Quote


I know what the "rule" has been up till now. It's the new rule I am referring to.
Also the current status of getting a Form 1 stamp where ATF asks how and what you are going to use. If you say buy premade ends it will be denied. If you say you already have the premade ends they will say you may be a felon.
The ATF has already been trying to strong arm people that bought solvent trap end caps from Diversified Machine.
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