All right guys I wanted to give yall a update on my EOS-22. For all that had not seen the other thread here is a link to it. LINK

I have not shot it since the KGmade metering event which was back in the summer. When I shot it then it was only 20rds or so. I let a guy try it out and hear it. Sounds great BTW.

I broke out the gun today and shot it at 50 yards with 2 types of standard velocity ammo. Agulia SV and CCI SV. I have already tried probably 10 or more types of ammo in the eos all with the same result of 3-4MOA being the best I can do.

My orginal Ruger Factory receiver was out of spec causing 6+ MOA, once I installed the Browning receiver it dropped down to 3-4moa.

I recorded my shooting experience today and will post the video once I get it edited.



I have also contacted Kyle the owner of KGmade via text today (Saturday) and shown him my latest targets and told him at this time  I would like to explore the possibly of swapping cores on my integeral because clearly something is wrong.

He replied back that my stamp was for a 16" suppressor and that he can modify a EOS-22XL and make it work in my tube.

I told him whatever is easiest fix for him. Once the holidays are over I plan on meeting up with kyle and getting my new core installed.

He has advised me to ship him my gun and the ammo I use and he will fix it.

I will keep everyone posted on my issue and how KG Made fixes it. Thus far CS has been great. Dont know too many companies where the owner gives you his personal cell number and responds on weekends about work related stuff. From the git go I wanted to try everything possible on my end to correct the issue without bothering KGmade.

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Good luck with it.  I've always liked the idea of integrals and if the HPA passed I'd have attempted one (or more if the bug hit me).  With the $200 Abuse Me Tax I'm content to use muzzle suppressors and SBR the host.  I've seen some cans unexplainably not play well with some hosts, so I'd expect a recore that's checked out on your host to get dialed in just fine.

Yeah that accuracy is not acceptable. I hope you’re able to get this resolved.

Disassemble the gun, and put something underneath the barrel section of the integral suppressor before the tube starts. Put some tension there.

Seems like you’re getting somevibrations, so make sure the tube is not contacting the stock anywhere.

Gun is packaged up and will be shipped today by UPS.

Shipped should be delivered tomorrow.

I've been following along on your journey, I'm hopeful you get it resolved to your satisfaction.  Thank you for the updates.

edited: grammar

Package has been delivered to KGmade.

No word out of KGmade will wait until Friday and give them a call. No big rush to get it back but would like to have a idea of whats going on and how long to expect to get it back.

I'm sorry to hear you're still having issues. Can't imagine how annoying it's been having paid for the can, the stamp, going through the wait, sending it in, buying essentially a new gun, and now having to send it in again.

Texted Kyle today and asked about the progress on the barrel.

He stated they are still shooting more groups and designing a custom barrel for my tube.

I told him I was in no big rush and just to keep me posted.

Spoke to Kyle today expect to get the gun back by around Feb 1. Shot show has slow him down so I understand that.

Spoke with the owner today. Was originally told that it would be shipped back too me before today Feb 1 2019. Shot him a text but was told he still needed to work on the barrel.

The owner said he would ship just the gun back if I wanted it but would need to keep the barrel to work on it more. I have no need for a gun with no barrel so told him to keep everything until he was finished and could test the complete package. I asked for a time frame on when I will get it back and have not heard back yet.

In for results, swamp.

I was in on the other thread too because my EOS-22 is doing the same thing. I haven’t had time to troubleshoot mine at all though since posting isn’t he previous thread and like the OP I want to do my due diligence and exhaust all my options I have on hand before taking up KGMade’s time with a complaint... if I ever get time to focus on my 10-22 build.

For those of you new to this rodeo... I don’t think the problem is with Swampfox’s receiver/rifle. I have the same terrible accuracy problems and my EOS is installed in a complete KIDD receiver/bolt/trigger set with a 22LR ACSS scope in watermelon rings and the barrel is free floating all the way to the receiver.

I have 3 theories:

1) the chamber mouth is tight/sharp... mine hangs up feeding sometines and dings up the bullet pretty good. I’d say 1 in 4 fail to feed and need discarded due to shaved lead, being bent, or dinged. Perhaps the ones that successfully do feed still have notable bullet deformity and shoot poorly.

2) the crown isn’t ideal. My crown doesn’t look bad, but it doesn’t look nearly like any decent barrel I own either. I don’t see how a proper crown can be applied to this barrel either.

3) it’s just too long and something’s running on the bullet path. Although I cannot find ANY evidence of billet rubs or strikes and an alignment rod clears. Maybe it’s flimsy and a thicker or stiffer outer tube would help. Switching to something simple like even tempered 4130 CrMo would give a lot more stiffness and strength than the Grade 9 Ti.

A good friend of mine thinks the suppressor design itself is causing the bullet to destabilize resulting in poor accuracy.

I have no way of proving this, the suppressor sounds great & looks good just wish it would shoot sub 3" at 50 yards.

Im not sure what type of turn around a suppressor manufacture generally has on correcting a issue with a can.

So far I am at 36 days with no gun/suppressor.

Seems like there was someone else who was having a issue similar to you and I pneumagger. I wonder how close our serial numbers are together.

Damn guys.  Sucks your having to go through this but I'm sure Kyle will make it right eventually.  Hang in there.

Doesn’t inspire confidence in Kgmade

And I dont want anyone to thing this is a bash KGmade thread. I just want to have a true, accurate, public record of what my issues was and my experience with getting it corrected. Thus far KGmade has been pleasant to deal with.

Pleasant doesnt shoot MOA though...

We have another thread where someone is having similar issues with a Sandman L on a JP barrel.  Sometimes action/barrel/load/projectile/silencer/atmosphere don't play well together.  I will say that integrals make trouble shooting by separating variables for diagnosis harder.

In this market I'm sure you will eventually get satisfaction, and you (OP) are to be commended for your patience and perseverance in trying to get exactly what you want.  People like to bitch about suppressor companies but most of what we consumers deal with is a direct result of the NFA and its market intervention distorting the customer/supplier relationship in terms of cost and time responsiveness.

Replied with a text today to check the status of my EOS-22 re-core. It has been 11 days since my last text message with them. Texted around 10:45 with no reply. They have been fairly quick to get back to me. I will wait till after lunch and give Kyle a call and see where they are at.

52 days without the gun/suppressor.

Figured since I was not doing anything this morning I would give Kyle a phone call. Called his cell at 11:30 with no answer but left a voice mail. I guess we will see how this goes.

Received a text back from the owner of KGmade said that it will be shipped Thursday or Friday.He did apologize for not getting back with me and missing the phone call but was in a meeting.

Looking forward to getting the gun back and putting it on paper. Like I have said in previous post sub 3 moa at 50 yards with CCI SV or similar price/performance bulk pack ammo is what I am expecting.

I may have posted this before but this target is 10 shots in about 4 seconds with a ff3 red dot at 30 yards. Thompson Machine operative td. Very acceptable to me. I don't think 3" at 50 yards would be. Good luck, I am glad they are working with you.
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Nice set up and good shooting. I considered the Thompson Machine offerings when looking at integrals. Kinda wish I went that route after this headache.

But keep in mind 3MOA at 50 yards is 1.5", 3" at 50 yards would be 6 MOA.

A beer or soda can is about 5 MOA width at 50 yards. That's also within 'minute of rabbit' at 50 or squirrel at 25 yards. I'd be happy with that for a very quiet suppressed semi plinker.  If you get the hold over right that's a paint can at 100 yards.  For fun shooting, anything better than that likely gets washed out by shooter error or ammo variations.

Had to go to Atlanta today for business and texted kgmade and asked if the gun was ready to ship. Told him I could swing by in person and pick it up and save them some shipping. He informed me that it was not finished yet and required 2 more machining cuts. I asked if it would be shipped tomorrow and he said should be able too.

Man do I hope this works for you and the problems are fixed.

I have sent the owner of KGmade a text asking that status of the barrel and if he has had a chance to finish machining the custom core at 2:30pm today. I have not received a text back I have also placed a call with no answer and left a message. This thus far has been the second time it has been promised that the barrel would be fixed and shipped back to me by KGmade and I still do not have it. I have been very nice with my request and tried not to bother them. They are a small shop and from what I could tell a 1-2 man operation with 2 machines. I understand that when he has to make a one off barrel it ties up his time and his machine time to make it.  And they may ship it today in the next 10min for all I know. Kyle the owner has been nice and I have given him the benefit of the doubt I will continue to try to work with him on resolving my issue. But if it is not corrected and in my hands within a reasonable amount of time I will be forced to ask for it back in the original inaccurate state and have another silencer manufacture correct the issue with the KGmade Eos-22.

At this point I do not know what else I can do. All I have his Kyle the owners word to work off of.

Kyle is very reliable and also a very busy guy. Sometimes things take more time than expected, just take a breath and give him some more time to sort it out and get back to you.

@paco_ramirez

Just a heads up OP has been extremely patient with KGmade throughout this process.

I'd recommend checking out the original thread involving this same suppressor.

I know, I've followed it since the beginning. It sucks how long it takes, but sometimes things take more time than expected.

Sent Kyle a message this morning asking the status of my integral and that I was hoping to get it back last week and then asked would he be able to finish it up and get it to me by Friday of this week.

He stated that he remembered me and was working on shipping it to me and that he would let me know. He then said that "you called and texted anyway so I stopped working on it. Im back on it today to get final deburring and accuracy done. Please let me reach out to you."

I never in our previous messages seen where he wanted me to not message him and ask about the status of the recore of the can. I did not know sending a text was such a burdensome issue. I then replied back and let him know politely that he had promised it back to me 2 times prior and I have yet to receive shipping conformation. I was very nice in my response but did let him know where I am coming from. He does have an account on here and would love for him to step in and explain what all is going on. From my understanding he is having to redesign a new core for me. They have a EOS-XL that I have seen but its not listed on his website. I assumed that he could simply recore my EOS-22 4" with the EOS XL 10" barrel and all would be fine. There must be more too it that that and would love to know more about what he has had to do. I know that it has to stay within the same length requirements.  I feel that 58 days is plenty of time to modify a existing design but I maybe wrong.

On another note he did say that he had to deburr and preformed a accuracy test so it sounds like the new core has been made and in the finishing stages. So hopefully I will get a tracking number by this week. I did let him know in my text that I would like a eta on when it will be shipped and I would not bother him again unless the ship date has passed with no tracking. I also told him thank you for trying to correct my issue. I have yet to get a reply.

I have been as clear and transparent with you guys from the get go as I can short of posting images of the text messages which I feel is not needed. I never wanted this thread to turn into a bash KGmade thread and still do not want it to. I just want to make a clear and concise record of my dealings with there CS. So far I am pretty frustrated with how everything has gone. A little explanation goes along way and could have saved both myself and Kgmade some time. I have 2 jobs where feelings and tensions run high and I am able to communicate with families and victims along side law enforcement and keep everyone happy. I just expect the same service out of everyone I deal with and that maybe asking too much.

You've done nothing wrong. When promise dates keep being missed, questions start being asked. I would do the same thing as you. If he wants to stop being bugged by you he needs to finish the work or be proactive in the communication and provide updates. I hope this is resolved for you soon.

OP's experience is similar to the experience I had with Kyle, over a much smaller purchase.  It's a shame to see this beginning to show a pattern. There's a huge difference between being a good craftsman and a good businessman.

Let me start by saying that I dont spend much time on forums,  We have alot going on, however thats not an excuse.  The OP has made it abundantly clear that he isnt happy with the accuracy he expects out of his EOS.  Please check the previous thread for my explanation of what the barrel was designed for.

He reached out to me and I said I would work with him.  I felt I was going above and beyond to give the customer what he desired even if it wasnt what was advertised.  Between shot show and government shutdown things have been a little crazy.  Yes we are a small operation, so custom stuff like this falls to myself and there isnt enough hours in the day to get everything done.

The OP stated he was in no rush and just said get to it when I could.  I have replied just about every time I could.  So when I didnt reply I see he came right on here and started making posts.  I can also see everyone else jumping in to get in a good word or two.

I have stopped everything I am doing to get his barrel out today.  However I dont want it to leave until its what the OP expects given the ammo and setup provided.

I will provide updates so both sides of the story can be known.

Thanks for your time reading this

Kyle

I dont know whos SN this is.  What are you referring to?

I have stated numerous times that I do not want this to be a bash KGmade And I want this to be abundantly clear that I appreciate Kyle & KGmade for trying to make this right. I have told him that in private messages and will say it on here. Thank You.

He has since apologized to me (today) in text for failing to ship the corrected version of the EOS to me on the 2 separate occasions. We have been in talks and seems that I have lead him to believe that time was not a issue in getting this repair done. That was my fault, when I first sent it off to him I stated no rush on getting it corrected. My idea of no rush was 2-3 weeks I had no idea what all he had going on and how long it was going to take. That was a miscommunication on both of our parts.

I have asked him to state everything on here about my issue so we all know whats going on and not just hearing my side of it. Once again he is trying to make this right and has been quick to respond today about my issue.

And to let everyone know the gun was shipped along with a sampling of ammo that I shoot per his request.  The ammo was 2 boxes of CCI SV and 2 boxes of Aguila Subsonic or standard velocity.

Gun was also shipped with a different scope than the original 4X leupold, It is currently wearing my deer rifles scope a VX-1 3x9x40 leupold. The video posted at the top of this thread is how it was shipped.

And accuracy that I hope to get with CCI SV at 50 yards is 3MOA 1.5" 10 shot discounting flyers,  I will settle for 2.5" groups. I feel that this is realistic and not too crazy of a expectation.

I understand that CCI SV is not match ammo but from my chrono testing and shooting it out of my various 22 rifles both SBR and normal 16" guns it seems to be the most constant for the price.

Wanted to share this update with y’all. Kyle just shot me a text and boy am I happy.

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That is 40yards with the Aguila ammo which we all know is far from match. I’m pretty excited about this.

Edit: update #2

Cci SV at 40 yards totally inside my explanations of what to expect out of the EOS. Totally happy

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Agulia 40yards
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Aguila super extra sub MOA without the flyer. 40yards only sand bag for rest. Very happy
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I have also received tracking from KGmade and should be back home on Wednesday. Pretty excited.

Those are good groups.  Let's see if you can shoot it that well.

I thought I would come on and explain the issues I found with the setup.

When I recieved the gun and did initial test rounds I didnt have anywhere near the accuracy issues the OP posted groups of.  I had been down this road before and didnt feel it necessary to keep beating a dead horse over setup and shooting style.  Biggest thing I noticed different from his previously supplied setup was the large amount of play in the receiver in relation to the barrel. Our 10/22 barrels are machined .0005 over stock and maintain a +-.0005 tolerance range so they maintain a slightly tighter fit over a factory unit.  The Brownells Receiver was .003 oversized from our barrel.  It was also oval, with the larger part of the oval measuring .0038-.004 over the diameter of our barrels.  I did several tests of clamping the v block down and loosening it then reshooting a group.  Everytime I loosened the v block slipped the barrel forward and reseated it, my group moved all around 1 inch at 40 yds, sometimes 2.

I also did some loading tests as I did the previous time and loading the rifle different ways on a bag and could skew the groups by over 1". I could even get it to do it while shooting each round.

Knowing all of this i just decided to eat the cost and build a hybrid barrel from scratch. The new barrel still had the looser than I wanted fit to the receiver but I cant change that.   We do make an extremely accurate barrel call the EOS-XL.  However the OAL on that setup is 20".  The OP tax stamp was for a 16" setup so I didnt really have an option.  I found a spare blank and designed, and machined a 8" rifling/8" core setup to maximize accuracy while still providing sufficient suppression. This barrel will still allow rounds to go supersonic which is the only downside.  Fast forward to yesterday and with the customers optic and ammo provided, I produced the above posted groups.  All of those groups were 10 round groups to show the actual accuracy of the setup. Several 3-5 shot groups were less than .350, however as you can see fliers will open up groups, especially on .22 LR with non match ammo.  I dont think 3 shot groups really show the effective accuracy of a platform.  Gun was then cleaned, checked for function once again and shipped out.

In reference to " how could he keep the gun so long" . When OP originally reached out. It was nearing Christmas.  I told OP that we were closing down for a while and that right after the first we had alot of other stuff going on but I will fit in some testing here and there as time allowed.  he said he was fine with this, and that he was in no rush as long as it didnt take 6 months.  OP told me yesterday that his version of "when I could get too it" was 2-3 weeks, this was also unbeknownst to me .  The OP has also stated that above that he didnt communicate that.  What I couldnt tell him at that time was that we were working on getting the new integral collaboration with Seekins Precision done as well as doing development work for the military.  None of this was public knowledge until now.  We are still doing development work and have active submissions for testing.

I will await OP to shoot groups and reply back with his findings.

Thanks for your time in reading this.

Kyle

Solid response. Thanks for posting the whole troubleshooting process.

OP, quit using shitty receivers!

Didn't see your post because I had you blocked. Just wanted to explain my process on the whole "shitty receivers" as you have put it.

The suppressor is designed for the 10/22 platform I never seen it stated which receiver is best. I bought a factory new 10/22 from CDNN and it didnt work out. Nothing was ever measured (by me) just from me looking at it the face of the receiver and barrel notch it may have not been squarely cut (see vol1 link at top). So move on to option B buy another receiver. I then price what I thought was quality billet receivers Kidd, Brownells, tactical innovations and Tac Sol. Brownells had just released there BRN-22 receiver with integral rail and was the most reasonably priced of the bunch. My thoughts were by buying this receiver I am eliminating the possible issue of base play and getting a better quality receiver than the ruger. That purchase set me back $100 or so and with the new receiver the groups did tighten up over the rugers groups. (see Vol1 link at top) I have considered buying a even more expensive receiver a KIDD classic slip fit to be exact to see if that would tighten up my groups but a fellow member here has that receiver and a EOS-22 and was experiencing similar issues. At that point I reached out to kyle and he has corrected my issue by making a custom barrel. Since talking to KGmade they say the TacSol gives the best results.