What do you each keep on your person in the event a BATFE friend asks to see legality/ownership proof?  Are pics of the stamp and page one(s) good?  Certainly people don't carry the hardcopies around in a bag.  What is actually required?

I keep copies in my range bag.  I’ve been asked to show them once at a public range, never by any sort of law enforcement.

The ATF can just phone home to see if there is a stamp.  I have pics on my phone tho.

E-filed

So if I have a pic of the stamp and front page it's on that should suffice?

So far we have:

- carry nothing
- backup hard copies
- have them call home; pics (of what?) on a phone
- efile reference

I have pictures on my phone....



I generally dont walk around with tax documents with me, but I can readily show an ATF agent I paid their tax If there is a question.

This is my NFA attorney and I follow his advice

I have PDF copies of the stamps as well as a copy of my Trust on my phone.

I know people who print tiny copies of their first page and laminate them to keep in their gun case.

I just take pictures of them or I can pull them up in my email

I reduce the copies down to fit in the small ID/luggage tag sized laminate they have at the FedEx Office store which come with a flexible loop to hang them from.  When a range officer or check-in person asks to verify the registration and serial number, they invariably complain about the small print.  I remind them that their policy doesn't specify the font size, then take off my glasses and read it to them (nearsightedness has its advantages).  It's not my responsibility to provide them with a magnifying glass.

It usually depends on local laws.  Here in Michigan, we can own all the NFA types, but you need to have your stamp copy available if LE asks or else they can take your items until you can prove it.

I have scans stored on my phone,

Phone pix.

Same. I do have the ATF's phone number saved in my phone in the unlikely scenario where an officer wants to verify legality.

I scanned my stamps in and saved them as JPG's to my phone. If I'm travelling interstate I bring hard copies but never originals. I do this for all form 5320.1,4,20.

Files on my phone, usually a reduced hard copy in a tool tube in the grip, stock or bag.

none. It's not required that I produce it to anyone besides an ATF officer. The regular range nazis get told to fuck off. I don't show them my W2, why should I show them any other tax documents?

I do keep a copy folded up in a plastic baggie in the grips of all my rifles and AR pistols. I also keep a photo on my phone.

Truck, bag, house

I don't bother to carry anything.  I've had NFA stuff for >20 years and never needed anything.

I might be able to find a pdf of a stamp on my phone if I had to.

ETA: I did make a point to carry copies of stamps to Richmond for lobby day, but that was an unusual circumstance. It was a a complete non-event, even walking alone through massive groups of police, with very obviously NFA stuff.

As I have posted in the past, I carry full size copies of my paperwork in a zippered 3-ring binder.

I have had two LE interactions in Texas (both local LE not BATFE) over the past ~20 years. Of the two LE interactions my impression is that one would have gone poorly for me if I didn't have paperwork with me.  Not sure about the other one, but that LE office seemed  more relaxed about the issue.

I prefer hard copies for multiple reasons.

1.  Cell phones are not reliable (battery/signal), etc.
2.  If questioned about a firearm and need to provide a copy of my Form to prove I am in legal alignment at the State (of Federal) level, I would rather hand over a hard paper copy vs. handing over my unlocked phone to LE.
3.  Unlike a lot of folks, I don't carry my phone with me everywhere.  I actually go to dinner, movies,  shooting, hunting, etc. and don't bring my phone along with me.

I take hard copies of my NFA paperwork for the same reason I carry non-digital versions of my car insurance, inspection & registration, hunting license, hunters education, handgun carry license, drivers license, etc.  

Right or wrong....these are all activities that "the government" has decided that I need  "approval" to participate in, requires me to pay some sort of "fee" for that approval, and also either explicitly or implicitly requires me to carry proof of payment/approval with me when partaking in said activity.     Ultimately its up to the participant to decide if they want to pay and get approval and/or carry proof of payment/approval with them all while weighing what level of legal risk or personal "inconvenience" it is to provide proof of legal participation at point of front line government interaction (i.e. local LE) or farther up the government hierarchy.

Given the number of NFA firearms I have accumulated over the years  its much easier for me to manage all if it via paper copies.  Once I make a copy and put it in the binder its pretty much good forever, vs. a digital copy that I have to move from phone to phone to phone as I replace cell phones every couple years.  Did it copy over, did it get corrupted or deleted, etc.   Hard copy is pretty much good to go forever and if it does become damaged/illegible its pretty obvious.

I also don't want to try and keep track of a bunch of loose 1/12th playing card sized laminated copies and I organize my binder  in "sections" i.e. MGs, Supprssors, SBRs, SBSs, DD, etc. so stuff is easy to find/locate.

My process is pretty straight forward.  A new approved form comes in the mail and the first thing I do is throw it in the copier, stamp it "copy", put the copy in the binder, and then put the original in the safe.  If its an eform 1,  I print two copies, one goes in the binder and another in the safe.

When I travel out of State,  I just add the approved 5320.20 to the binder and go.

If memory serves correctly, I started with a basic presentation type folder once I hit about 10 firearms, then moved to the current 3 ring binder maybe 12 to 15 years ago once the little presentation folder got full, and may need to move up to a bigger binder in the next couple years if I ever cross into triple digits.

Attached File


Attached File

Scanned pdf emailed to myself and kept on my phone.

I just keep photo copies of the originals with me as everything travels with bag of some sort so its not terribly inconvenient to just have some folded up paper in there.

Never been asked so never tested any of this.

Now that I think of it, I know a good collection of cops, troopers, detectives, marshals etc, but never had to deal with one I didn't know whilst carrying a NFA item.  Untested plan I suppose.

I just have PDF copies on my phone. I don't need reception to display them, just some battery life.

I have double sided 1/2-scale color copies of all my forms.  I laminated them and keep a set in my safe and in my car.  That way I can always have a copy wherever I go if somebody asks.

The original forms are kept safe elsewhere.

A lot of the indoor ranges around here ask for forms if they notice you have NFA items to shoot.  Especially machine guns.  If you tell them no they’ll just say you can’t shoot there.

I usually call ahead before heading to a new range to shoot and ask if they allow NFA (including full auto).

@jbntex Holy shit!! I would love to see the inside of your safe(s). lol.

Also, is it necessary to keep the cover sheet that comes with the approved forms?

I have PDFs  of my Trust and all stamps stored locally on my phone. Just need a smidgen of battery to access those. Not signal dependent. Paper copies on board most everything these days, usually in a grip or stock recess. Beyond that, paper copies and originals at home, with backup PDFs on various machines here and there. And a full set including all Trust documents in the hands of other trustees.

Damn you.

I came to post this exact same damn thing.

I have multiple hard copies of all NFA items, always with me, folded up, in one of those clear covers that people buy for fishing licenses....and on a key ring.  Never leave home with out it.  Back up copies in my range bag and gun cases.  For the SBR's, copies in the B5 stock storage tubes

I am not going to take any chances....

Bronc

I take a copy, roll it up and put the applicable stamp in my sopmod stock battery tubes. Suppressor stamp goes in the other.
I have others that I will fold up and put into the the grip. That way I never have to worry about them being in my bag or on my phone.

20+ years and I have never been asked.

I keep photocopies in a binder with me and digital copies on my phone.

this.  I keep copies for my slicers and SBRs.  My local indoor range asks to see my papers for a silencer.  Makes me fucking furious but they're 15 minutes away and no others are even close.  I make sure they know how I feel about it each and every time.

I literally transferred them through them and have bought several guns from them I the past.  no more, but I'll use the range sometimes.

I had copies made and shrunk down and into a luggage tag sized, laminated attached to the range bag handle

The one time I was asked for documentation it was by a federal LEO on tribal land and I had the wrong form with me.  He just kinda shrugged and said eh whatever.  I have most of them on my phone but I don't really worry about it unless I'm going out of state.

I have laminated 3"x3" copies I keep in my range bag.  That being saing in the 10+ yeaes of having NFA stuff, ive never been asked or even hinted at questioning my stuff.

This.

Why would I bring anything with me?

Normally I do not carry any documentation, but recently I traveled across 4 states carrying a dozen MGs in my vehicle, so I brought a binder with an authorized possessor letter in the left sleeve and copies of all the ATF forms on the right and had it in the passenger seat. I didn't encounter anyone asking to see registration during my journey however.

The only time I've ever been asked to produce registration was at an indoor range (by an employee there). It was their policy. Showed them, they make a note in their computer, and you don't have to show it for that firearm again if you come back.

I don't even worry about it in my AO, since I can call my office if I really need a form all of a sudden (and nobody ever asks).

If it's an ATF SA inquiring, they just need the serial and they can call their Operations Center at (304) 616-4490 and obtain registrant info on the spot.

I actually keep my copies in the guns when I can. Most guns anymore have hollow grips that you can cap off.

While convenient, I am not a proponent of keeping copies on your phone then handing it over to a police officer for what could end up as a warrentless search when one of your friends decides that was a good time to send you some boogaloo meme or something to that group chat you are a part of, but don't really want to be, but stick around anyways because occasionally some pure gold memes get sent your way.

Why?

I do all the above.

I have photo/pdf copy on my phone. I carry a paper copy in the range bag as well. Just copy fold stick it in there have not had to think about it but once every 5 years when I clean the bag out.

Odds are you will never need it for anything other than a range Nazi but it's cheep ins and more than anything peace of mind.

Color copy of the original (which I hand flipped over for two sided aspect - don't trust the feed tray on a copier not to shred your Form 1 / 4.

Then laminate the copy.  Costs about 2 bucks each at Kinkos.

Now it's water and oil proof, and can be thrown into the trunk of my car whenever I take the NFA stuff out and about.

Needed?  Probably not, but easier than not having it with me.  Plus looks quite official, far more so than a small copy of it on a phone, and cops are bureaucrats with guns, so are impressed easily by paperwork.