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Posted: 6/7/2018 12:38:53 PM EDT
[#1]
does exploding count as a leak?
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Posted: 6/7/2018 12:52:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
does exploding count as a leak? |
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Posted: 6/7/2018 1:03:48 PM EDT
[#3]
I thought exploding is more of an issue if they are punctured?
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Posted: 6/7/2018 1:06:58 PM EDT
[#4]
I use lithium in my NVG & Thermal, I remove them every time.
I use lithium in my DBAL, I don't remove this at all (until it gets all blinky). Not sure why, but that's my routine. Eta: I replace my batteries in everything about every month or so given that batteries are cheap. It's a very inexpensive insurance policy to cycle them out regularly. |
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Posted: 6/7/2018 1:09:25 PM EDT
[#5]
ALL, batteries due to extreme temps can explode (pop) and leak with Lithium being the most stable in in extreme temps both high and lows. I have seen plenty of Alks AND Liths cause a shit storm in many NODS over the years when the SWATTY types leave their kit in a trunk on a hot summer day. It ain't pretty.
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Posted: 6/7/2018 1:15:04 PM EDT
[#6]
I have had super cheap ones explode. In terms of quality 123As, I've had no issues. The same with Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAs. I won't put alkalines in any quality electronic I own.
I use my gear pretty regularly, but if it looks like it will be put away for awhile, weeks or more, I'll remove the batteries. ETA: explode in cheap flashlights left in my truck. I've found De Oxit to be pretty effective at cleaning battery compartments, but why take that chance with an expensive device? |
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Posted: 6/7/2018 1:26:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Interesting, I guess I will still keep taking them out. I always take them out of my NODs but the lasers was more the question I guess. Maybe Im just a little old school but we are only allowed alkaline in our anvis systems at work. That might have more to do with hazmat and low battery times but never really got a straight answer on that before. So I guess I carried that over to my personal set at not using lithium in mine.
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Posted: 6/7/2018 5:31:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting, I guess I will still keep taking them out. I always take them out of my NODs but the lasers was more the question I guess. Maybe Im just a little old school but we are only allowed alkaline in our anvis systems at work. That might have more to do with hazmat and low battery times but never really got a straight answer on that before. So I guess I carried that over to my personal set at not using lithium in mine. |
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Posted: 6/12/2018 6:25:44 AM EDT
[#9]
They vent gasses constantly. Ever notice that funny smell when you open a lithium battery package or compartment?
I don't know if those gasses hurt anything, but they might long term. |
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Posted: 6/12/2018 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Devices that run on lithium batteries have a battery management system (BMS) to control for over-current, over-voltage, and over-temperature. Shitty BMS let things run away, and you get fires, etc.
I have no experience with night vision devices, but do have experience in high energy lithium systems with BMS deployed to the field. |
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Posted: 6/12/2018 10:03:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
So I know most say use alkaline in nvg’s .... Alkalines are just asking for trouble. The only thing they’ve got going for them is that they are cheap and plentiful. |
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Posted: 6/12/2018 10:06:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
does exploding count as a leak? Ymmv |
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Posted: 6/12/2018 11:50:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is most?.... Everyone who is knowledgable and sells or uses them regularly says lithium all the way. Alkalines are just asking for trouble. The only thing they’ve got going for them is that they are cheap and plentiful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So I know most say use alkaline in nvg’s .... Alkalines are just asking for trouble. The only thing they’ve got going for them is that they are cheap and plentiful. I can only conclude based on what I know that our systems were tested and numbers certified with alkaline batteries so if you switch to lithium then it effects that 50 hour operating time and more so effects the 30mins when you get red low batt light. Lithium could also effect hazmat protocols with rotorcraft operations. I’ve just always used alkaline becuase it’s always been SOP. I’m just now starting to question that as more and more technology comes out. Flight complicates things sometimes that ground ops could give a crap about really. |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 6:45:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s in our SOP’s and per ASU the service center for all our systems also says alkaline for rotorwing operations. I’ve never been able to get a straight answer beyond it’s our SOP so don’t worry about it. I can only conclude based on what I know that our systems were tested and numbers certified with alkaline batteries so if you switch to lithium then it effects that 50 hour operating time and more so effects the 30mins when you get red low batt light. Lithium could also effect hazmat protocols with rotorcraft operations. I’ve just always used alkaline becuase it’s always been SOP. I’m just now starting to question that as more and more technology comes out. Flight complicates things sometimes that ground ops could give a crap about really. |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 7:37:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd have to check the pubs again but I'm pretty sure that our O-lvl maint pub for the AN/AVS-9s also specified alkaline batteries. Any changes aviation related take for ever to go though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It’s in our SOP’s and per ASU the service center for all our systems also says alkaline for rotorwing operations. I’ve never been able to get a straight answer beyond it’s our SOP so don’t worry about it. I can only conclude based on what I know that our systems were tested and numbers certified with alkaline batteries so if you switch to lithium then it effects that 50 hour operating time and more so effects the 30mins when you get red low batt light. Lithium could also effect hazmat protocols with rotorcraft operations. I’ve just always used alkaline becuase it’s always been SOP. I’m just now starting to question that as more and more technology comes out. Flight complicates things sometimes that ground ops could give a crap about really. 
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Posted: 6/14/2018 6:50:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do they explode? |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 9:03:41 AM EDT
[#17]
I have had one China made Battery Station 123 cell vent on me and not explode in a light. When I opened the light, because I thought it was dead, I heard the sound of pressurized gas, like opening a plastic soda bottle, and the strongest lithium stank I have ever smelled came out. To this day, almost 10 years later, the light still works and I can give people the light to open and smell what a vented lithium smell is like and it overpowers them like they just wiffed smelling salts. From what I understand, the gas is not good for you either. Never had a US made 123 vent. Well a tiny trace wiff, but not where it pressurized the battery compartment.
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Posted: 6/19/2018 7:30:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How old are your pubs? Hopefully not as old as the GI issued PVS-14 manuals. |
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Posted: 6/20/2018 10:53:09 PM EDT
[#19]
I think it is worth pointing out that all lithium AAs or CR123s vent gasses constantly, and vent faster when in use.
When most people say "vent", they usually refer to the much more violent venting that occurs in a malfunctioning cell. But lithium batteries are always giving off gas byproducts. That's why they smell like death and toothpaste. |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 2:39:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Maybe I missed the answer to the OP question?
Which is less likely to leak? Alkaline or lithium batteries? I leave a name brand lithium AA parked inside my aimpoint comp m4. Change it once a year or so just for the heck of it. Used to use a regular name brand alkaline until I read here somewhere that a lithium was less likely to cause the corrosion that an alkaline battery will when left in place and leaks. So which is less likely to "leak"? thanks. |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 7:05:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I missed the answer to the OP question? Which is less likely to leak? Alkaline or lithium batteries? I leave a name brand lithium AA parked inside my aimpoint comp m4. Change it once a year or so just for the heck of it. Used to use a regular name brand alkaline until I read here somewhere that a lithium was less likely to cause the corrosion that an alkaline battery will when left in place and leaks. So which is less likely to "leak"? thanks. |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 7:49:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Yeah what I gather is lithium is safer and better but not fool proof so take it out if you can. I’m still leaving a battery in my Aimpoint’s, rmr’s, and specterDr but will take it out of my peq and NV.
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Posted: 6/21/2018 9:21:20 AM EDT
[#23]
I leave the batteries in my DBAL so my HD SBR is always ready to go. no time to fiddle with batteries when someone is kicking in my door.
NV IMO isn't really in the quick response category so no battery in it and its stored in a cool, dark, and dry place. If I'm getting NV out its a pre-planned event. |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 11:33:09 AM EDT
[#24]
I've been leaving a Surefire CR123 in my FLIR Breach all the time, but I use it at least briefly almost every night.
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Posted: 6/21/2018 2:12:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have the correct one in your AP. Lithium is less likely to leak. Plus longer shelf life, longer run time, lighter weight. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I missed the answer to the OP question? Which is less likely to leak? Alkaline or lithium batteries? I leave a name brand lithium AA parked inside my aimpoint comp m4. Change it once a year or so just for the heck of it. Used to use a regular name brand alkaline until I read here somewhere that a lithium was less likely to cause the corrosion that an alkaline battery will when left in place and leaks. So which is less likely to "leak"? thanks. |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 4:04:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
does exploding count as a leak? |
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Posted: 6/21/2018 8:35:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am out of my lane a ways, but I think the news stories about exploding batteries are all rechargeable lithiums, which have different and less stable chemistry than lithium primaries. If I am wrong, someone will be along shortly to correct me. |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 9:11:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ya know (not talking trash), I have often over-looked this fact. While not a big issue with those running a single batt system, for those running batt packs it could be several ounces. Good point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I missed the answer to the OP question? Which is less likely to leak? Alkaline or lithium batteries? I leave a name brand lithium AA parked inside my aimpoint comp m4. Change it once a year or so just for the heck of it. Used to use a regular name brand alkaline until I read here somewhere that a lithium was less likely to cause the corrosion that an alkaline battery will when left in place and leaks. So which is less likely to "leak"? thanks. I know it doesn't make a huge weight difference, but I think that it's noticeable when head mounted. I definitely go as light as I can when it's attached to my head and when backpacking. Lithiums also provide better cold weather performance. |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 1:19:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vic, it seemed pretty clear that it wasn't a negatively toned post. I know it doesn't make a huge weight difference, but I think that it's noticeable when head mounted. I definitely go as light as I can when it's attached to my head and when backpacking. Lithiums also provide better cold weather performance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe I missed the answer to the OP question? Which is less likely to leak? Alkaline or lithium batteries? I leave a name brand lithium AA parked inside my aimpoint comp m4. Change it once a year or so just for the heck of it. Used to use a regular name brand alkaline until I read here somewhere that a lithium was less likely to cause the corrosion that an alkaline battery will when left in place and leaks. So which is less likely to "leak"? thanks. I know it doesn't make a huge weight difference, but I think that it's noticeable when head mounted. I definitely go as light as I can when it's attached to my head and when backpacking. Lithiums also provide better cold weather performance. |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 3:29:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use lithium in my NVG & Thermal, I remove them every time. I use lithium in my DBAL, I don't remove this at all (until it gets all blinky). Not sure why, but that's my routine. Eta: I replace my batteries in everything about every month or so given that batteries are cheap. It's a very inexpensive insurance policy to cycle them out regularly. |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 4:48:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also leave DBAL batteries in and take PVS's out Old issue, but I know there is always some drain in most lasers with batts left in.
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Posted: 6/22/2018 7:12:33 PM EDT
[#32]
I have maintained dozens of game cams the last 20 years and lost many of them to alkaline outgassing and discomposition.
Since changing over exclusively to Engerizer Lithium ion AAs, some take eight or more of them, I have never lost a single game cam, and these are out doors in the rain, sun, humidity, cold, etc. exposed 24/7/365. I never use alkaline batts in any of my NV/Thermal kits ever. |
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Posted: 7/16/2018 12:49:41 PM EDT
[#33]
The lithium work much better in the cold, my trail cameras will not work in cold temperatures without them, the voltage drops too low.
As for removing them, I always do just because all of the post I have read about someone accidentally leaving their nods on and burning a spot on their tube. Just a FYI, energizer will fix or replace your gear if their battery leaks. Here is their site link http://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/no-leaks-guarantee |
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Posted: 7/25/2018 12:27:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd have to check the pubs again but I'm pretty sure that our O-lvl maint pub for the AN/AVS-9s also specified alkaline batteries. Any changes aviation related take for ever to go though. Fixed wing, non ejection seat is usually uses an adapter to run the rotor wing battery pack through the fixed wing mount but could use lithium in the other side if they wanted. |
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Posted: 7/25/2018 7:58:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
USAF uses Alkaline for Rotor-wing, Lithium for ejection seat. (and has for decades) Fixed wing, non ejection seat is usually uses an adapter to run the rotor wing battery pack through the fixed wing mount but could use lithium in the other side if they wanted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I'd have to check the pubs again but I'm pretty sure that our O-lvl maint pub for the AN/AVS-9s also specified alkaline batteries. Any changes aviation related take for ever to go though. Fixed wing, non ejection seat is usually uses an adapter to run the rotor wing battery pack through the fixed wing mount but could use lithium in the other side if they wanted. |
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Posted: 7/29/2018 6:34:10 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm no expert on batteries, but about 10 years ago I mixed some Streamlight cr123's with some Chinese batteries in a TL3. I kept in on the coffee table for "bump in the night" use. Apartment, 2nd story.
I don't know how long the batteries were in the light, maybe a month. Picked up the flashlight one night, hit the button and it flickered on and off and started hissing and getting hot. I threw the MF'R outside on to the balcony and 45 seconds later it exploded. Sounded like a .410 going off. Blew the tail cap off, threads were gone on the aluminum body. Never use Chinese lithium batteries. |
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Posted: 7/29/2018 6:48:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No power drain? Old issue, but I know there is always some drain in most lasers with batts left in. |
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Posted: 7/29/2018 6:54:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I swear to God Surefire flashlights drain batteries when not in use.. or I just use the one in my truck and nightstand gun more than I realize.. |
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