TNV/ Sentinel Binocular Night Vision System – L-3 Un-Filmed White Phosphor  /  PHOTONIS ECHO spec WHITE PHOSPHOR 4G ECHO SPEC tubes no gain, autogated. Are the Sentinels worth $3k more?

ask the all mighty @TNVC

Thanks for quick reply TNVC. I really want the Sentinels but really budget is only going to allow for your WP UF 14. Thought there might be a compromise.

@Lowdown3   Why do people opt for models with no gain control?

@Lowdown3

What I mean is why does / would someone want a NVD without a gain?

Thanks!

The question is really - what is your budget and are you someone who has to have the best and chases upgrades until you do. If so, just bend over and buy the filmless tubes now and be done with it.

If you are a casual user, you can probably pocket the extra 3k and use it towards other things in life and not be any wiser about the difference between the two types of tubes.

I’ve been dithering with this choice lately myself. I see both sides, especially as I’m definitely a casual user.

Terry1 did a photo comparison between the Photonis Echo vs the L3 Omni VIII tubes and posted it here on AR15. He said the L3 did edge out the Echo's in near dark conditions by trying to read a large box label so many feet away. IIRC he said the letterings where present viewed through the Echo tubes but not clear enough, but the L3 tubes you could make out the letters enough to read them. Hopefully he'll chime in and can link the photos he took of his comparison. If you have the money buy the best L3 WP tubes from TNVC, if not I'm confident you will not be disappointed from the performance of the WP Echo tubes from JRH Enterprises (from all the reviews I've read so far). Also I'd wait to see all the new offerings from Shot Show, who knows maybe RNVGs may come in a single or dual gain model. IMHO gain control isn't necessary, but is a great feature since it calms the image down. I'd prefer a single vs a dual gain in a non combat roll, but an auto gain is best for more dynamic use since you don't have to finger fuck with your kit going rapidly in and out of different lighting environments. If you want the best low/very low light capability add a COTI to your NV.

I’d save the money.  The better spec stuff is better but I don’t care.  I don’t care about the absolute darkest of darks (which nothing works well in).  I’m not on a two way range so having a light changes nothing for me other than another item to take with me.  So I’d save 3k, buy a great light, and pocket the difference.  You look at those TNVC pics and literally anything will look good in those settings.  It’s a bright environment.  If you need the best ultra low light performance and can’t use a light, then save the money up and buy the better tubes.  If you can either use a light or don’t need absolute lowest light elite performance, the money is never going to be worth it.

If you’re a hunter, I’d never spend the extra.  If your life depends on it and bullets may come back at you, I’d always save and buy the best.  If you’re just out for fun, again I’d never spend the difference.  Since you’re asking I’m going to assume the price difference matters.  Those echo tubes will do 98% of what the better spec tubes will do and for all but the most extreme it won’t matter.  If you fall in that extreme, then buy accordingly.

The echo tube duals are a budget option.  Not a top tier priced option.  TNVC’s budget version (from sister store nightgoggles) uses gen 2 tubes with much lower spec.  They don’t want to compare budget for budget, they want to compare the performance of their best against budget.  And that’s not realistic.

Lowdown is a class act.  I’ve never seen him lose his shit in these forums or blow up on a customer.  He’s always made things right if something goes wrong, which rarely does.  Some others, well they use some used car salesman tactics, hype/lie about what they stock, and have no problem trashing customers or competitors they don’t like, publicly.  I’d be cautious who I spent my money with.  A quick forum search can show the many temper tantrums that come from some vet owned “all mighty” this forum rides so hard.

I’m don’t have top of the line tubes but it adds up.  I see a big range drop off from my Omni 4 compared to the 8 after clouds come out.  That last 50 yards of detection you don’t have from lesser tubes adds up.  If I did t have a few different units I would never know.  But when I go in a group I almost always find the pigs first so spend the money.  300 meter detection to 350 meters of detection increases search area by roughly 30%. It matters.

Edit. Bez was that really called for? Stay classy

Get a nice Omni 8 green over a WP ECHO. the white phosphor appearance is kinda cool and some people think is better for visual clarity, but I’m not so sure for me personally. Then again I have L3 filmless WP