@BigWaylon
@jestertoo

The NFA flow chart in the NFA forum asks this question:
Does it fire fixed, cartridge ammo?

When you use at a device like the Can Cannon, you load a mag with blanks and drop a can in the muzzle end, then charge a blank into the chamber and pull the trigger to discharge the blank.  It's almost like a breach loading black powder rifle in a sense.

From what I understand, once you use "anti-personnel" type munitions in a can cannon, it becomes a DD.  So if you were to take something like a bean bag and load it to use for a less lethal round, it would become a destructive device...right?

....Or not....based on the "fixed, cartridge ammo" since the projectile and the blank cartridge are two separate components in the function of the device?

Thanks

Looking at the federal code:
The term “destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

....I guess it would fall into that category?

Yes. It's a DD in your hypothetical due to the bore size of the barrel, even though the propellant chamber is 5.56x46mm. Weird, but that's the law as it stands and is interpreted, even though the projectile and launching charge are very much discrete components.

IANAL.. I'm also not ATF.

It's a simple flowchart that can't possibly include every possible esoteric combination of madness. I almost wish sometimes I hadn't written it.

That said, a full soda out of a soda can launcher would be much more effective than a beanbag, and it's not a DD.

Funny thing.. A 20mm cannon firing 2part ammunition isn't a DD. IE if you can take your vulcan barrel and make it so that it can't fire a fixed 20mm cartridge, then it's not a DD.

So would you register the lower as the DD?

That's what I'm thinking.

Considering adding spring metal fingers to capture the projectile should it be pointed level or down.  Create a wading of sorts to keep the bean bag sealed in the tube, thinking something like a plastic drink bottle plastic or something along those lines, maybe even heavy duty foil.

Compared to things like 37mm and 40mm the munitions, it wouldn't require individual registration since they projectile and the propellant are kept independent from each other the entire time, even when in use....If I'm understanding that correctly.

I appreciate that it exists.  I invited you to the party to get some clarity, not trying to cast a stone

Unless it can chamber ammo - even if the ammo is odd "wildcat" spec. Even blank ammo, seems like... any non-antique ignition system makes a muzzleloader or non-fixed gun a potential NFA item.

I wish it weren't the case, because it's asinine.

Unless passing the 1/4oz explosive payload limit or filled with poison gas or the other listed (in the DD definitions) types of filler, rounds of any kind aren't DD either. That goes for 37mm and 40mm loaded ammo as well, of course, although the storage may require a orange book compliant magazine and/or FEL.

Patchworks of different laws are ever so fun.

Xproducts makes a plastic reusable shot cup. Super lite and will fall short once it catches wind outside the barrel.

They are also cock suckers. FYI.

Yeah, the can launchers I've looked at are F5 Manufacturing products.

Wasn't there some concern about 1/4oz+ powder charge applying to 37/40mm ammo, even if it wasn't part of the munitions' projectile?

That’s who I bought mine from. They are good guys.
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No, not at all, since it's still well under the limit for anything but genuine HE rounds.

The issue is that it's not considered "small arms ammunition", even if it's considered non-NFA. HE storage magazine needed, FEL needed... weird situation. One agency says it's small arms and it can go via highway. One sections of one agency says it's just small arms. The other section of the same agency says it's an explosive, doesn't fall under the small arms exemption, and must be in a powder magazine.

E filed a lower back on the 25th of March and was about 5 days slow to get the prints out. The form 1 submission included some diagrams. Approved this morning.  Now the fun begins!

I do wonder what the largest capacity brass is I could get loaded as blanks that will function in an AR15 type mag. Proper pressure chamber up sizing compared to a can cannon and the range/velocity could be noticably increased.

5.56x45mm has a capacity of 28.5gr H2O, while .50 Beowulf has a 65.8gr capacity. You'd have to figure out your usual projectile weight, the pressure curve from having what amounts to a dual pressure hi/lo chamber, what powder to use to safely keep the pressure curve reasonable, and then actually load blanks.

If it were me... I wouldn't really bother with custom blanks. Even just from the point of view of time, the fact you can buy 5.56 blanks off the shelf is appealing.

Thanks for the heads up on the F5 launcher.  I really gave up on owning a can cannon.  Not worth x-products prices for a novelty. But for 150 bucks shipped,  my dogs gonna love chasing tennis balls!

Now to order lots of blanks...

I'd be a touch concerned about lead exposure and other chemicals as the powder burn goes directly into what you launch.

Lead...  In blanks...

My dog licks his own butthole and drinks out of the toilet.

Lead styphnate, used as priming compound, creates quite a bit of lead dust when the primer goes off, yes.

Yep.

I can only guess how bad getting shot with a 12 ounce can of soda would hurt or even worse a 22 ounce tall boy.