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Posted: 11/17/2020 12:31:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Be sure you document the date, time, and the person who spoke to or attempted to speak to. Documentation of good intent can prevent a fair amount of trouble in the future.
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Posted: 11/17/2020 12:34:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Be sure you document the date, time, and the person who spoke to or attempted to speak to. Documentation of good intent can prevent a fair amount of trouble in the future. None of the reps that I have spoken with have given me a name. I havent gotten anyone of substance so far. I have the names of the two people they attempted to transfer me to. Im not sure what the deal is but their telephone system is trash and it is very difficult to make out what they say, I think they said I need to talk to someone in the lawful heir team? Does that sound right? |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 12:44:54 PM EDT
[#3]
You will need to fill out a Form 5 for each NFA item and submit that, along with fingerprint cards, to the ATF. Do you have the original form 4s for the two silencers? Were they registered to a trust or to your father as an individual?
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 12:53:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Yes, you can legally keep the gun silencers without paying the tax.
Here you go: https://www.atf.gov/file/97596/download Here's the form: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-5-application-tax-exempt-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53205 |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:00:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will need to fill out a Form 5 for each NFA item and submit that, along with fingerprint cards, to the ATF. Do you have the original form 4s for the two silencers? Were they registered to a trust or to your father as an individual? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_JPG-1688379.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_1_JPG-1688380.JPG I have all his paperwork but I dont see a trust anywhere. He said he was going to do a trust but i would guess I would have needed to have signed something at some point so I am guessing to him as an individual. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:06:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, you can legally keep the gun silencers without paying the tax. Here you go: https://www.atf.gov/file/97596/download Here's the form: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-5-application-tax-exempt-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53205 ok from what I can tell the form looks just like his paperwork that he did. Ill try and get on that then. thanks! |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:11:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have all his paperwork but I dont see a trust anywhere. He said he was going to do a trust but i would guess I would have needed to have signed something at some point so I am guessing to him as an individual. On the form 4, is the transferee listed a trust or is it your fathers name? You wouldn't have necessarily had to sign anything if he used a trust. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:45:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the form 4, is the transferee listed a trust or is it your fathers name? You wouldn't have necessarily had to sign anything if he used a trust. This, where is says Applicants Name it is either Dads name or Dad Trust (I used my 3 initials Trust). |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:53:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Transferee is his name
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Posted: 11/17/2020 1:55:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Transferee is his name Ok, so there isn't a trust. You just need to get some fingerprint cards and passport style photos down and complete the form 5. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 2:05:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Maybe it just me.. But getting a lawyer that knows how this works can save lots of headaches...and maybe more..
(advice from my 1000 post !) |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 2:08:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Would you have to also include some form of proof the transferor is in fact deceased and a copy or letter from the estate executor that the item was in fact bequeathed to the transferee?
I could see the atf wanting those things verified. |
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Posted: 11/17/2020 2:16:27 PM EDT
[#13]
479.90a Estates. a. The executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate (collectively “executor”) may possess a firearm registered to a decedent during the term of probate without such possession being treated as a “transfer” as defined in § 479.11. No later than the close of probate, the executor must submit an application to transfer the firearm to beneficiaries or other transferees in accordance with this section. If the transfer is to a beneficiary, the executor shall file an ATF Form 5 (5320.5), Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of Firearm, to register a firearm to any beneficiary of an estate in accordance with § 479.90. The executor will identify the estate as the transferor, and will sign the form on behalf of the decedent, showing the executor's title (e.g., executor, administrator, personal representative, etc.) and the date of filing. The executor must also provide the documentation prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section. b. If there are no beneficiaries of the estate or the beneficiaries do not wish to possess the registered firearm, the executor will dispose of the property outside the estate (i.e., to a non-beneficiary). The executor shall file an ATF Form 4 (5320.4), Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm, in accordance with § 479.84. The executor, administrator, personal representative, or other authorized person must also provide documentation prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section. c. The executor, administrator, personal representative, or other person authorized under State law to dispose of property in an estate shall submit with the transfer application documentation of the person's appointment as executor, administrator, personal representative, or as an authorized person, a copy of the decedent's death certificate, a copy of the will (if any), any other evidence of the person's authority to dispose of property, and any other document relating to, or affecting the disposition of firearms from the estate. Here is a Form 5 walkthrough as well |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 1:46:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Good to take care of this ASAP like you’re doing.
One gun I tried to buy the seller sent me paperwork for the ATF. It was reams of stuff relating to his dad’s estate. He had passed more than a decade before I tried to buy the gun! The gun was still in his dad’s name and never transferred to his mom or to him after she died. Needless to say, it was in limbo for 15 months before ATF finally disapproved the transfer. I eventually got my money back, but it left a bad taste. If I were to buy another NFA item, I’d be sure to ask “is the gun in your name?”. Form 5 should do it for you, OP. Sorry for your loss. |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 5:09:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You will need to fill out a Form 5 for each NFA item and submit that, along with fingerprint cards, to the ATF. Do you have the original form 4s for the two silencers? Were they registered to a trust or to your father as an individual? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_JPG-1688379.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_1_JPG-1688380.JPG |
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Posted: 11/18/2020 8:32:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will need to fill out a Form 5 for each NFA item and submit that, along with fingerprint cards, to the ATF. Do you have the original form 4s for the two silencers? Were they registered to a trust or to your father as an individual? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_JPG-1688379.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_1_JPG-1688380.JPG This |
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Posted: 11/21/2020 12:04:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe it just me.. But getting a lawyer that knows how this works can save lots of headaches...and maybe more.. (advice from my 1000 post !) I agree, "a reasonable time" and lawful intentions would not be as ambiguous with a lawyer involved, but that's just my opinion. |
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Posted: 11/22/2020 12:06:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Well I thought I would update this.
It will be a few more weeks before I can get this to the ATF but I am pretty sure they expect this during covid. I cant get death certs for a min of 3 weeks. He died in West Virginia and they are all paper there, nothing electronic with it. |
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Posted: 11/25/2020 10:37:31 PM EDT
[#19]
I recently had a will done and I specifically listed the suppressor’s to my nephew, son is not interested, will also include his name on the trust. Should make it easy for him. I’ve Also gave him a copy of the form 4. Always good to plan things out ahead of time.
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Posted: 11/27/2020 10:04:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I recently had a will done and I specifically listed the suppressor’s to my nephew, son is not interested, will also include his name on the trust. Should make it easy for him. I’ve Also gave him a copy of the form 4. Always good to plan things out ahead of time. yep, thats for sure. Sadly that was not my dads specialty. 
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Posted: 11/27/2020 10:44:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Very sorry about the lost of your Dad op. I know it sucks
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Posted: 11/28/2020 9:58:37 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very sorry about the lost of your Dad op. I know it sucks yeah its really strange going through his house. I hate it. I have more questions than answers now and that leaves me very empty feeling. |
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Posted: 11/29/2020 11:11:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yeah its really strange going through his house. I hate it. I have more questions than answers now and that leaves me very empty feeling. Dave Ramsey always stresses to create a legacy box of documents with the Will and Trust so someone like you isn’t in your situation. I’m guilty of not completing this task for my wife. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 1:02:11 PM EDT
[#24]
welp not much has happened with this but I wanted to ask, does the location where I do the fingerprints matter?
We cant get the sheriffs office to tell us, covid has everything so messed up. But we found out that UPS will do them for $12. Will this be satisfactory as long as it is a physical print? |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 2:26:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: welp not much has happened with this but I wanted to ask, does the location where I do the fingerprints matter? We cant get the sheriffs office to tell us, covid has everything so messed up. But we found out that UPS will do them for $12. Will this be satisfactory as long as it is a physical print? The finger print cards must have the current ATF address information in the ORI box. You can get the cards with that information already printed on them directly from the ATF if you do not have any. As you can finger print yourself if needed, it doesn't matter who is rolling your finger prints on to the paper. Just make sure you properly fill out and sign the finger print cards (a few guides online you can look up) or else they might be rejected. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 2:29:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The finger print cards must have the current ATF address information in the ORI box. You can get the cards with that information already printed on them directly from the ATF if you do not have any. As you can finger print yourself if needed, it doesn't matter who is rolling your finger prints on to the paper. Just make sure you properly fill out and sign the finger print cards (a few guides online you can look up) or else they might be rejected. Oh okay, good to know! |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 2:50:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The finger print cards must have the current ATF address information in the ORI box. You can get the cards with that information already printed on them directly from the ATF if you do not have any. As you can finger print yourself if needed, it doesn't matter who is rolling your finger prints on to the paper. Just make sure you properly fill out and sign the finger print cards (a few guides online you can look up) or else they might be rejected. LGS here has them and does prints when you buy NFA items, I've done enough they just hand me the cards to do myself. Not hard. Don't overload your finger with ink. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 2:57:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LGS here has them and does prints when you buy NFA items, I've done enough they just hand me the cards to do myself. Not hard. Don't overload your finger with ink. I found a kit online that is $10. I asked the gun store where they were bought and they didnt know what to do about any of it. Its so funny how people can be in this business and have no clue what to do if a customer with one of the items passes away. "well, just call the atf and we'll help you do whatever they say..." |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 3:13:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I found a kit online that is $10. I asked the gun store where they were bought and they didnt know what to do about any of it. Its so funny how people can be in this business and have no clue what to do if a customer with one of the items passes away. "well, just call the atf and we'll help you do whatever they say..." I'm pretty fortunate closest LGS is a guy that started in his garage and I knew him before that. He is very good on gun laws, shipping, NFA. I was at a different LGS to pickup a Silencer shop can and had to call my friends store so they could explain the law to the other LGS. Crazy. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 3:14:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pretty fortunate closest LGS is a guy that started in his garage and I knew him before that. He is very good on gun laws, shipping, NFA. I was at a different LGS to pickup a Silencer shop can and had to call my friends store so they could explain the law to the other LGS. Crazy. Like anywhere else I guess. nobody knows what is going on. |
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Posted: 12/4/2020 6:44:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The finger print cards must have the current ATF address information in the ORI box. You can get the cards with that information already printed on them directly from the ATF if you do not have any. As you can finger print yourself if needed, it doesn't matter who is rolling your finger prints on to the paper. Just make sure you properly fill out and sign the finger print cards (a few guides online you can look up) or else they might be rejected. Umm, no. I print myself at work on our cards and I use our ORI information, because that's the correct thing to do. |
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Posted: 12/4/2020 8:48:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Umm, no. I print myself at work on our cards and I use our ORI information, because that's the correct thing to do. Then my bad. I always heard it had to have the ATF info on it. Thanks for the clearing that up, bud. |
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Posted: 12/4/2020 9:10:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Per my conversation with the NFA folks, they apply a label with the NFA branch specific info over the ORI so they get the results routed to them. Don't get to hung up on it.
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Posted: 12/4/2020 9:26:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then my bad. I always heard it had to have the ATF info on it. Thanks for the clearing that up, bud. 
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Posted: 12/5/2020 9:55:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then my bad. I always heard it had to have the ATF info on it. Thanks for the clearing that up, bud. It does. But as mentioned above they’ll put a sticker on it to cover the incorrect info. The ORI is the originating agency, so they know where to send the info back to. It would be completely useless to send it back to your local sheriff or wherever else you went. |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 11:18:19 PM EDT
[#36]
You should know that you can't do the Form 5s until the estate is probated. You need the certified records of the probate from the county before a Form 5 can be processed.
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Posted: 12/8/2020 6:13:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should know that you can't do the Form 5s until the estate is probated. You need the certified records of the probate from the county before a Form 5 can be processed. Yep. Waiting on courts right how to give me Certificate of testamentary since I have almost $50K of checks to deposit after I open an account “The Estate of.....” for Mom’s estate. Courts are dragging ass right now using COVID as an excuse. One employee in our county court came down with it and they shut everything down for 15 days. I think some of these places on the county or state dole are just looking for an excuse to take another 15 days off. |
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Posted: 12/13/2020 9:02:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should know that you can't do the Form 5s until the estate is probated. You need the certified records of the probate from the county before a Form 5 can be processed. I should know that? I didnt know what a form 5 was until this thread  update: still waiting on everything. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 11:06:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I should know that? I didnt know what a form 5 was until this thread update: still waiting on everything. I'm sorry for your loss. My post was only meant to be informative because there had been a lot of cart before the horse information posted already. |
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Posted: 12/25/2020 10:43:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have all his paperwork but I dont see a trust anywhere. He said he was going to do a trust but i would guess I would have needed to have signed something at some point so I am guessing to him as an individual. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You will need to fill out a Form 5 for each NFA item and submit that, along with fingerprint cards, to the ATF. Do you have the original form 4s for the two silencers? Were they registered to a trust or to your father as an individual? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_JPG-1688379.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/145596/9_5_3_1_JPG-1688380.JPG I have all his paperwork but I dont see a trust anywhere. He said he was going to do a trust but i would guess I would have needed to have signed something at some point so I am guessing to him as an individual. If he did them personally, then went to put them in a trust, he discovered he had to pay $200.00 again per item and do all new paper work as when he bought them, then wait for the approval. I had a good friend who did the personal route then try and change, it wasn’t worth it. That’s why I went with a trust from the start, to many advantages as in adding or subtracting trustees, adding items, or deleting them, easier for your heirs to settle your estate. |
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Posted: 12/26/2020 4:59:20 PM EDT
[#41]
You can order the correct fingerprint cards online if you're not in a rush. They're free from https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form
You can roll your own prints on the cards. Fingerprint ink pads are less than $10 on Amazon. I did 3 this way with no problems or delays. P.S. I think brazos means that's something you need to know, not something you were expected to already know. I don't know if a trust helps with that. My uncle put his house in a trust to bypass probate, but my cousins couldn't sell it until the estate closed. |
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Posted: 12/26/2020 5:25:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can order the correct fingerprint cards online if you're not in a rush. They're free from https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form You can roll your own prints on the cards. Fingerprint ink pads are less than $10 on Amazon. I did 3 this way with no problems or delays. P.S. I think brazos means that's something you need to know, not something you were expected to already know. I don't know if a trust helps with that. My uncle put his house in a trust to bypass probate, but my cousins couldn't sell it until the estate closed. A trust only helps in the fact you have trustees, and you can designate who gets what in the trust. The advantage of trustees is, you can keep the trust going by simply adding trustees. Yes,nit is a little more complicated than that, but it will help when my time has expired. |
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Posted: 12/26/2020 6:36:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know if a trust helps with that. My uncle put his house in a trust to bypass probate, but my cousins couldn't sell it until the estate closed. Usually property in a trust is more for tax purposes. Kind of ironic, since a gun trust is to buy tax stamps. |
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