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Posted: 6/2/2018 10:34:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Interested in the answer to this as I’m thinking about an 11” pistol to SBR or buying an 11”or 13” factory SBR.
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Posted: 7/19/2018 6:59:10 PM EDT
[#2]
I have a DSA 13" OSW with the para stock and love it the most of my 3 DSA FALs.
The MULE |
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Posted: 7/26/2018 3:56:58 PM EDT
[#3]
I thought I wanted one for the longest time, then I kept talking to people with SBR 308's and short FAL's specifically. Consensus heard was too much blast and recoil for what you are really getting out of it ballistic and cost wise. Cool factor is way high, after that...
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Posted: 7/26/2018 4:21:03 PM EDT
[#4]
I am looking for a short platform, ballistically relevant weapon that can be handled suppressed, or moderated, from inside a vehicle, which can do serious harm on an opposing vehicle. Engine, radiator, glass, etc. Limited space, but needs to work on a mobile attacker. If it's not reliable, it's worthless.
You see few .308 shorties out there, but this one shows promise. If reliable. |
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Posted: 7/26/2018 8:06:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am looking for a short platform, ballistically relevant weapon that can be handled suppressed, or moderated, from inside a vehicle, which can do serious harm on an opposing vehicle. Engine, radiator, glass, etc. Limited space, but needs to work on a mobile attacker. If it's not reliable, it's worthless. You see few .308 shorties out there, but this one shows promise. If reliable. I noticed that in the documantary on the SAPS Special Task Force that for vehicle use they were using FALs with the shortest barrel lengths possible with the standard gas system (a bit under 16") with the first few rounds in each mag being AP rounds to take out vehicles or people in them. |
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Posted: 7/26/2018 8:25:04 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 7/26/2018 8:31:15 PM EDT
[#7]
11" over 8" for sure!! It's a 308 man!! Hell I'd probably even go 13" for more practicality. But the 11" model does look cooler. So yeah if it's just for fun then I'd go 11" barrel. If you want to run it suppressed then go 13" though. Most suppressors can't handle shorter barrel lengths in 308.
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Posted: 7/28/2018 1:39:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Some of the members here have experience with setting FALs up for suppressors or with short-barrel FALs.
@stimpsonjcat @tony_k @chase45 I'm starting to get interest in a 13" pistol with arm brace. Those DSA barrels are really heavy profile for whatever reason, though. I'd probably want mine reprofiled. |
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Posted: 7/28/2018 5:44:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
11" over 8" for sure!! It's a 308 man!! Hell I'd probably even go 13" for more practicality. But the 11" model does look cooler. So yeah if it's just for fun then I'd go 11" barrel. If you want to run it suppressed then go 13" though. Most suppressors can't handle shorter barrel lengths in 308. 
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Posted: 7/28/2018 1:25:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Short FALs are sexy.
They tend to need larger holes from the bbl to the gas piston, easy enough to drill out with # drills until you get the correct range. If needed, DSA *should* be getting this right from the factory. I have never assembled/tuned one of their short top ends. Not my style, I like full length bbls. BUT, enlarging the gas port (or even a normal sized port on a full length FAL) causes an issue when a can is present, as it means there is way too much pressure for far too long. The simple solution I came up with was to modify a spare gas plug to have a smaller hole for use with the can. I do this for free for FAL folks. For a super short FAL if it was ALWAYS going to have the can on it, I would be tempted to drill as small a hole as possible and also try to obscure as much of the gas adjustment collar hole as possible. It doesn't do so much good to add a can to drop muzzle pressures if you are just going to vent high pressures out the gas system. If you have a FAL with a can, try flipping the gas plug to grenade position and see how much quieter it is. |
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Posted: 7/28/2018 3:54:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Here's mine: 11.5" barrel plus QD can. It was built by Southeast Arms on an 03 metric receiver made back in the '90s.
As far as gas system modifications, if you remove the front sight, there's two holes -- one is threaded for the front sight; the one directly behind that goes through to the gas port. On this conversion, the port in the barrel was drilled out until the rifle would cycle unsuppressed on a gas adjustment of 4. With the gas plug setting on A, use that hole as a guide to center-drill the gas plug. Then remove the gas plug, drill through with approx .050" drill bit. Since there is now a complete through hole from the port through the sight block, you need to tap and plug the rear hole in the sight block with a small allen screw. Reinstall the gas plug and, with it on the G setting (so the small hole lines up with the port) install the can and check function, then keep stepping up the drill size until it cycles. Now, you shoot unsuppressed on the A setting and suppressed on the G without overpassing the system. The results -- on this FAL -- are 100% reliability. Much more controllable and pleasant to shoot when suppressed. And without the can, you can clear an indoor range with one shot, LOL. It would be a perfect car gun with the can on; take the can off, and you'll likely be replacing every window after the first shot.
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Posted: 7/28/2018 7:37:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Has anyone tried the Dead Air Sandman K on a shorty FAL? It short length and relatively low weight (with no barrel length restrictions) sound interesting. Supposedly only adds 2.9" of length.
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Posted: 7/28/2018 10:37:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's mine: 11.5" barrel plus QD can. It was built by Southeast Arms on an 03 metric receiver made back in the '90s. As far as gas system modifications, if you remove the front sight, there's two holes -- one is threaded for the front sight; the one directly behind that goes through to the gas port. On this conversion, the port in the barrel was drilled out until the rifle would cycle unsuppressed on a gas adjustment of 4. With the gas plug setting on A, use that hole as a guide to center-drill the gas plug. Then remove the gas plug, drill through with approx .050" drill bit. Since there is now a complete through hole from the port through the sight block, you need to tap and plug the rear hole in the sight block with a small allen screw. Reinstall the gas plug and, with it on the G setting (so the small hole lines up with the port) install the can and check function, then keep stepping up the drill size until it cycles. Now, you shoot unsuppressed on the A setting and suppressed on the G without overpassing the system. The results -- on this FAL -- are 100% reliability. Much more controllable and pleasant to shoot when suppressed. And without the can, you can clear an indoor range with one shot, LOL. It would be a perfect car gun with the can on; take the can off, and you'll likely be replacing every window after the first shot.
https://imgur.com/KJJFEXn.jpg I like it, but beyond the means of most, and needs tinkering, and still has gas coming out at the collar. Tapping the gas block must have been a bit of a pucker-factor moment, yes? |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 2:08:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I must applaud you, sir! Very well done. I like it, but beyond the means of most, and needs tinkering, and still has gas coming out at the collar. Tapping the gas block must have been a bit of a pucker-factor moment, yes? I wouldn't recommend anyone try this at home. Just thought I'd explain how it was done. |
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Posted: 8/1/2018 8:16:40 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 8/1/2018 12:03:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of the members here have experience with setting FALs up for suppressors or with short-barrel FALs. @stimpsonjcat @tony_k @chase45 I'm starting to get interest in a 13" pistol with arm brace. Those DSA barrels are really heavy profile for whatever reason, though. I'd probably want mine reprofiled. |
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Posted: 8/1/2018 5:07:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How would a Californian obtain one?  
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Posted: 8/1/2018 5:18:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We do not discuss doing things like that to FALs. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 5:20:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would a Californian obtain one? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some of the members here have experience with setting FALs up for suppressors or with short-barrel FALs. @stimpsonjcat @tony_k @chase45 I'm starting to get interest in a 13" pistol with arm brace. Those DSA barrels are really heavy profile for whatever reason, though. I'd probably want mine reprofiled. If I had a residency outside of CA I'd just go the SBR route, probably (although I might start it as a pistol with a brace), and also get a suppressor for it. ETA: Apparently you have to build it as a single-shot first before converting it to semi-auto in order to be compliant. Lame, but doable. Som believe that you may need to make it an AOW with stamp and everything to be able to use the arm brace. Also lame, but also doable in CA, and I know an SOT here who can help me out with that. But I've been reading stuff that says that DOJ has no problem as long as you don't shoulder the weapon using the brace. I'd also have to buy the receiver as an intrafamilial PPT from out-of-State (doable for me) and DROS it as a handgun receiver, or find a receiver already DROS's as such and PPT it. So, PITA with a lot of legal rigamarole, but doable. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 5:37:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AFAIK there should be no legal issues with the brace or the pistol so long as it is made AWB compliant (fixed-mag being the only option; I'd do what I've done for my other FALs). If that's not the case, then oh, well, but I've yet to see any issues with it, and indeed on Calguns there to be a number of pistol owners for rifle-action based pistols. If I had a residency outside of CA I'd just go the SBR route, probably (although I might start it as a pistol with a brace), and also get a suppressor for it. ETA: Apparently you have to build it as a single-shot first before converting it to semi-auto in order to be compliant. Lame, but doable. Som believe that you may need to make it an AOW with stamp and everything to be able to use the arm brace. Also lame, but also doable in CA, and I know an SOT here who can help me out with that. But I've been reading stuff that says that DOJ has no problem as long as you don't shoulder the weapon using the brace. I'd also have to buy the receiver as an intrafamilial PPT from out-of-State (doable for me) and DROS it as a handgun receiver, or find a receiver already DROS's as such and PPT it. So, PITA with a lot of legal rigamarole, but doable. I'll just get a rifle then in that case. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 6:55:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus. I'll just get a rifle then in that case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: AFAIK there should be no legal issues with the brace or the pistol so long as it is made AWB compliant (fixed-mag being the only option; I'd do what I've done for my other FALs). If that's not the case, then oh, well, but I've yet to see any issues with it, and indeed on Calguns there to be a number of pistol owners for rifle-action based pistols. If I had a residency outside of CA I'd just go the SBR route, probably (although I might start it as a pistol with a brace), and also get a suppressor for it. ETA: Apparently you have to build it as a single-shot first before converting it to semi-auto in order to be compliant. Lame, but doable. Som believe that you may need to make it an AOW with stamp and everything to be able to use the arm brace. Also lame, but also doable in CA, and I know an SOT here who can help me out with that. But I've been reading stuff that says that DOJ has no problem as long as you don't shoulder the weapon using the brace. I'd also have to buy the receiver as an intrafamilial PPT from out-of-State (doable for me) and DROS it as a handgun receiver, or find a receiver already DROS's as such and PPT it. So, PITA with a lot of legal rigamarole, but doable. I'll just get a rifle then in that case. I'd find a receiver to do a qualifying PPT as a pistol, buy the parts to build it as a single-shot (fixed mag set-up with something to use a a sled instead of a magazine, no gas tube or piston and maybe the gas plug modded so that it cuts off the gas in either position), and then rebuild it as a semi-auto (install gas system parts, replace sled with magazine). Done. Once the receiver is found and transferred it doesn't seem like it'd take much more effort than to do a regular rifle build, although I would, again, want the barrel reprofiled (unless there's a barrel maker out there who can do oen with a standard profile at a price that is reasonable relative to the project, which I doubt). I'm not a fan of DSA's use of a heavy-profile for their short barrels. Another option is just finding an already-built FAL pistol classified as such (at DROS or registration) and that is AWB-compliant, and buy it and make any changes you might want to make, if any. |
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Posted: 8/2/2018 7:11:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Damn, I did not even know I needed a shorty FAL.
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Posted: 8/3/2018 2:27:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, I did not even know I needed a shorty FAL. |
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Posted: 8/7/2018 2:43:45 PM EDT
[#24]
I built a 13” SBR using one of DSA’s chunky barrels. It was very overgassed, so I pulled the gas block and drilled it for a reduced-diameter bushing. The initial gas port diameter in the bushing was made intentionally undersized with the intention of drilling to size, but it turned out to work just fine with the regulator just a bit on the tight side—room to grow. I don’t have pictures or exact numbers on the gas port or the bushing at the moment; I’ll update in a couple days when I’m back on the mainland.
I went with the gas block bushing instead of welding the plug because the barrel itself was the problem and I wanted the rifle to function correctly without needing a special part. A modified plug is the way to go for a can, though. |
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Posted: 8/12/2018 5:09:19 AM EDT
[#25]
The gas bushing was drilled to a #52 bit, or 0.0635 inches diameter. I didn't have to open it up from that at all.
Here are some pictures of how I modified the gas block for the bushing: 
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Posted: 8/25/2018 10:57:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've heard that it can take some work for the shorties to run reliably, but that is on an individual basis. Some run great as-is. A special gas plug seems to be necessary to ensure optimal reliability while suppressed. This is just based on what I've read. I noticed that in the documantary on the SAPS Special Task Force that for vehicle use they were using FALs with the shortest barrel lengths possible with the standard gas system (a bit under 16") with the first few rounds in each mag being AP rounds to take out vehicles or people in them. My 13" DSA works with absolute reliability with my Gemtech HVT, although it does start throwing brass like an H&K which is to be expected I guess. When I switch to subsonic ammo and use the "G" grenade lever it is scary quiet. The MULE |
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