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Posted: 8/15/2018 11:26:01 AM EDT
[#1]
I loved my I2, did everything I wanted it to. That being said, on the A3, the IR laser is zerod when you zeo the vis, making life a little but easier.
But the 9007 is half the price and you only lose vis laser. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 11:44:35 AM EDT
[#2]
The a3 isn't better or brighter. It just includes a slaved visible laser.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 12:14:48 PM EDT
[#3]
If you do get the I2, get the single spectrum version, so that you'll have both a laser and Illuminator, you're going to want an illuminator.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 12:36:45 PM EDT
[#4]
thanks for the input fellers.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 1:08:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thanks for the input fellers. Having never used a slaved vis laser for zeroing, getting a zero with something like the I2 or a non-visible slaved unit is not hard and IMO nothing to worry about. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 1:34:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I have a DBAL 9007 and can echo the comments of it being an excellent buy for the money. Shooting off the laser is a different set of fundamentals for combative shooting, and I use the VIS laser on my ATPIAL quite a bit on my other gun. If you either plan to primarily hunt with at night, or if you have access to a range where you can train regularly at night the 9007 would be just fine, however, I'm likely to sell my 9007 later this year to buy an A3.
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Posted: 8/15/2018 1:49:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the current prices of the I2 single it is a no brainer. Best value for the money right now. DSG has them at $575 brand new today and has had them at this price occassionally for the past two months at least. Having never used a slaved vis laser for zeroing, getting a zero with something like the I2 or a non-visible slaved unit is not hard and IMO nothing to worry about. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 3:26:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sigh..I did not need to see this. ordered one Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: At the current prices of the I2 single it is a no brainer. Best value for the money right now. DSG has them at $575 brand new today and has had them at this price occassionally for the past two months at least. Having never used a slaved vis laser for zeroing, getting a zero with something like the I2 or a non-visible slaved unit is not hard and IMO nothing to worry about. 
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Posted: 8/15/2018 3:40:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Allow me to demonstrate how one might find their IR illumination with the dbal 9007 and a wmlx
 Attached FileIt's g2g for night things |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 3:56:05 PM EDT
[#10]
well that certainly clears things up
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Posted: 8/15/2018 3:57:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Allow me to demonstrate how one might find their IR illumination with the dbal 9007 and a wmlx https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/389059/ir_diagram-641190.JPG It's g2g for night things |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 6:51:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: sigh..I did not need to see this. ordered one |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 7:04:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the current prices of the I2 single it is a no brainer. Best value for the money right now. DSG has them at $575 brand new today and has had them at this price occassionally for the past two months at least. Having never used a slaved vis laser for zeroing, getting a zero with something like the I2 or a non-visible slaved unit is not hard and IMO nothing to worry about. |
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Posted: 8/15/2018 9:52:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Enjoy your 9007, this unit was my first laser because I couldn't justify the extra cost for a vis laser that I would very rarely use. Wish the single spectrum I2's were easier to find in FDE, if they even exist?
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Posted: 8/15/2018 11:59:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Although the 9007 has a built in illuminator the reach is an extremely short 75 yards. Indoors it's perfect, but outside it falls flat on its face. IMHO a slightly used D2 for around 800-950 is a much better option since its reach is 500 yards plus. Some bitch about the weight, but if you move it back on your rail or use it on a carbine length rail the extra @5ozs is not a problem.
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Posted: 8/16/2018 12:35:05 AM EDT
[#16]
It all depends on what you need it for.
For me the A3’s visible overide and green laser are important for my uses which is why I use it. I can hit white light and green laser at the same time. Visible lasers tend to get people to comply frequently enough and also make shooting with a gas mask better. They also make zeroing easier and more important checking for significant zero shift fairly easy each day before use. Also so is laser illumination vs an LED. (someone mentioned the D2 and while it’s illumination is powerful it’s also very visible from the front. ) Nowwwwwww if TNVC/UNITY would come out with the Y cable for the Steiner surefire TAPS PRO. It would be even better. Right now I have to use two Steiner tape switches. The y cable having a surefire lead spliced instead of another Steiner. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 1:41:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Visible lasers tend to get people to comply frequently enough. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 8:50:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some reason the ones that don't comply when you have it pointed at their high thoracic area, just move your laser down point it at their "JUNK" and you will get instantanious compliance. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 12:19:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
alas CA.  Shits really going to get bad when Newsom becomes Governor
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Posted: 8/16/2018 1:13:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Maybe DSG Arms will send me a commission check for selling a half dozen i2’s from my post
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Posted: 8/16/2018 1:16:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe DSG Arms will send me a commission check for selling a half dozen i2’s from my post |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#22]
a3 was at dvor for $850 not too long ago. w the a4 out maybe it will drop more
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Posted: 8/16/2018 1:38:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what? |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 1:47:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a joke. Looks like me posting in this thread that DSG Arms has I2’s for $575 got about three or four people to buy one. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 4:33:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a joke. Looks like me posting in this thread that DSG Arms has I2’s for $575 got about three or four people to buy one. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 5:00:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something tells me they are not making enough money on this sale to give commission to anyone. |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 10:43:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a3 was at dvor for $850 not too long ago. w the a4 out maybe it will drop more |
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Posted: 8/16/2018 11:05:36 PM EDT
[#28]
wasn't a big fan of having to pay state sales tax, but it sure was nice having the I2 I bought at lunch yesterday on my doorstep when I got home this evening
 pretty slick unit. looking forward to messing with it more this weekend |
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Posted: 8/17/2018 8:31:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Yeah, I gave in and bought one too. Also had to pay tax.
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Posted: 8/17/2018 9:01:06 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wasn't a big fan of having to pay state sales tax, but it sure was nice having the I2 I bought at lunch yesterday on my doorstep when I got home this evening pretty slick unit. looking forward to messing with it more this weekend |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 8:34:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Got my DBAL I2 in. Wow! The laser pointer is great and that illuminator is almost worthless! It has very little ability to spread/tighten the beam and only has 2 powers, low and lower. Its GREAT at 25 yards, barely usable/visible at 50 yards in mixed lighting, barely usable/visible at 75 yards in pitch black, invisible at 75 yards in mixed lighting. Worthless at 100 yards in any lighting. The low on the pointer is great to 150, high to over 200+. An IR capable Surefire is MUCH more powerful than the DBAL I2.
Is the A3 civilian laser illuminator better? I have had experience with the A3 full power and it has much better high power illuminator. I knew I would get less ability to focus the illuminator beam down, but was not expecting such a HUFE power reduction on the illuminator. |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 9:11:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got my DBAL I2 in. Wow! The laser pointer is great and that illuminator is almost worthless! It has very little ability to spread/tighten the beam and only has 2 powers, low and lower. Its GREAT at 25 yards, barely usable/visible at 50 yards in mixed lighting, barely usable/visible at 75 yards in pitch black, invisible at 75 yards in mixed lighting. Worthless at 100 yards in any lighting. The low on the pointer is great to 150, high to over 200+. An IR capable Surefire is MUCH more powerful than the DBAL I2. Is the A3 civilian laser illuminator better? I have had experience with the A3 full power and it has much better high power illuminator. I knew I would get less ability to focus the illuminator beam down, but was not expecting such a HUFE power reduction on the illuminator. IIRC, the A3 and the I2 are exactly the same, except the A3 has a slaved vis laser. |
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Posted: 8/20/2018 7:30:32 PM EDT
[#33]
To me the illuminator on the a3 and i2 are adequate for the ranges you can consistently expect to hit anything with an ir laser. If you can't even make out the output of the illuminator then there is enough ambient light that you don't need it except for maybe catching eye shine.
They are indeed generally completely inadequate for trying to view something 200yds+ away even with magnification. I have an a3 and d2. Hardly use the d2 anymore because of the bulk, visible overide on the a3 and I've found that while it's nice, I really don't need that much illumination on the gun for shooting with a laser. I use a handheld led for id'ing at distance and a Luna with my clip on. |
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Posted: 8/21/2018 7:18:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Just received my I2 today. Surprised at the small size and had to laugh at the high level lockout screw. Wouldn't want to unleash that full .7 mw.
Going to put this on an AR pistol so the weak illuminator shouldn't be a problem. |
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Posted: 8/21/2018 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Got mine today as well. Agree that the laser is great, illumination not so much. However for what I need it for, and the price, I'm happy with the purchase. Thanks for all th advice.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 3:26:29 AM EDT
[#36]
My concern is not just seeing something at a given light level but seeing things in mixed light environments, such as being able to light up shadowy under canopy sections, dark apartment porch areas with otherwise good lighting, under bridges and over passes in a city with street lights, etc. Much like how you need a brighter flashlight to see into shadowy places in suburban areas than you need to "just see" things at a greater distance in a dark rural area. Civilian i2 is awesome at 25 yards, but at 50 yards... does not allow you to see into hard to see areas as often as it does. Definitely need a Class 3, a D2, or a MAWL C1 for 50 yards+ mixed light areas. You may be able to see things in a dark field at 75 yards, but you cant see a dark treeline past a brightly lit parking lot at the same range.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 4:20:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My concern is not just seeing something at a given light level but seeing things in mixed light environments, such as being able to light up shadowy under canopy sections, dark apartment porch areas with otherwise good lighting, under bridges and over passes in a city with street lights, etc. Much like how you need a brighter flashlight to see into shadowy places in suburban areas than you need to "just see" things at a greater distance in a dark rural area. Civilian i2 is awesome at 25 yards, but at 50 yards... does not allow you to see into hard to see areas as often as it does. Definitely need a Class 3, a D2, or a MAWL C1 for 50 yards+ mixed light areas. You may be able to see things in a dark field at 75 yards, but you cant see a dark treeline past a brightly lit parking lot at the same range. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:15:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^^^Exactly ^^^^ The illuminator on the A3, 9007, and APTIAL-C fall flat on their face in an urban or mixed lighting environment as you described. The same can be said about the .7mw IR and most visible laser on LAMs when trying to punch through windows or during daylight hours etc. Although most don't need the extra power for general use it's definitely has a useful purpose. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 6:18:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so what is recommended? full power peq-15? |
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