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Posted: 7/23/2021 1:44:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Nothing can beat an M/11 with so many options and uppers now.
I recommend that. |
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Posted: 7/23/2021 1:45:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Sten gun
Mac 10 Mac 11/9mm Personally I love the Sten but I’m also the guy converting a MK2 to a MK6 because to me nothing is cooler than WW2 SOE goodness. |
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Posted: 7/23/2021 8:46:50 AM EDT
[#3]
M11/9 is hard to beat with all the aftermarket stuff available now, including the Lage 5.56 upper which is insanely cool
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Posted: 7/23/2021 10:00:55 AM EDT
[#4]
"Entry level" can mean different things to different people.
For years the MAC10 or M11/9 was it. They were inexpensive and easy to find. They were bullet hoses with crappy buttstocks and the handful of available aftermarket stuff looked like it was cobbled together by a monkey. Looking at what is available now, that situation has obviously changed. The MAC-series of guns are probably still the most available, just due to the numbers of transferrable guns out there. But for an "entry level" gun, there are a few other options that are at, or slightly under the MAC or M11/9 price point. I'm thinking about M1 carbine conversions, Reisings, some of the registered tube guns like STENs, Stemple tubes, or a couple others. You occasionally see a Spitfire or Commando, which is a Thompson look-alike (sort of), several of which were registered as or reclassified as machine guns. They don't come up for sale all that often, and are sometimes looked down on but the handful I've seen ran well. They usually sell at a discount compared to many other MGs. Some of these "entry" level MGs are low in cost for a reason. Mags for the Reising are expensive when you can find them, for example. But as the cost of the guns increase, people will find ways to make them useable. I have a set of 3D printed sleeves that allow the use of Promag Uzi .45 magazines in the Reising, and they actually work very well in my gun. |
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Posted: 7/23/2021 10:32:22 AM EDT
[#5]
"Entry level" is a somewhat vague and indefinite term. Rather than look only at price, I would look at the totality of machine gun ownership. That is, long term value, historic panache, availability, versatility, ergonomics, etc. For that, a Colt M16A1 is the clear choice. Buy once, cry once.
Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with or financial interest in any vendor or manufacturer; and I am not a competitive shooter or a blogger who receives any form of compensation for endorsements or favorable public or private comments. Use of vendor and/or product brand names, if any, is for informational purposes only. Best of luck. MHO, YMMV, etc. Be well. |
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Posted: 7/23/2021 4:16:27 PM EDT
[#6]
M-11 or M-16. These two have the greatest amount of aftermarket options and caliber conversions available. I owned both and recently sold the M-11.
Entry level used to mean inexpensive but that ship has sailed. Cheapest MG now is in the 6K range. You want something that can be more than a one trick pony unless you only plan to shoot it once or twice a year or own several. The two mentioned above can be changed so many ways and then be brought back to stock without tools most of the time. Good luck |
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Posted: 7/23/2021 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#7]
M11 is hard to beat. Can be had for around $8k and lots of after market support. Lage uppers are quite nice plus they have a 5.56 upper now which is way cheaper than picking up an M16 at $20-30k
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Posted: 7/23/2021 9:54:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Entry level" is a somewhat vague and indefinite term. Rather than look only at price, I would look at the totality of machine gun ownership. That is, long term value, historic panache, availability, versatility, ergonomics, etc. For that, a Colt M16A1 is the clear choice. Buy once, cry once. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with or financial interest in any vendor or manufacturer; and I am not a competitive shooter or a blogger who receives any form of compensation for endorsements or favorable public or private comments. Use of vendor and/or product brand names, if any, is for informational purposes only. Best of luck. MHO, YMMV, etc. Be well. No, I would not follow this advice at all. First, see what’s in your price range and go from there. See if you like the aftermarket support (or not). If you can afford a $10k gun with accessories and ammo (and no more), there is literally no reason to recommend a $25k+ gun. M11 is where its at. Once you start the transfer, start looking at what you want from Lage. In the past, it has taken months and months to get the desired upper and other accessories. |
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Posted: 7/24/2021 2:30:30 AM EDT
[#9]
My first MG was a BRP STG U9. It’s a great gun. Take a look at those.
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Posted: 7/25/2021 10:35:45 AM EDT
[#10]
In my mind, the clear winner is the m11. This is due to its relatively low cost, the various uppers that can transform it into a new gun (rifle caliber/pistol/Suomi drum capable, etc), the cfw bolt, and the likelihood that if atf allows new conversion uppers in the future, there is a good chance that more will come out for the m11. Also its worth noting that the 3Rd party uppers available for m11 don't look like some cobbled together contraption. The Lage models look like they could of/should of been included from the factory. The only caveat i can see is if you want a gun where that type of gun has some historical signifcance. If that is a requirement then a STEN, m2 carbine, or something similar might be the way to go. However be warned that if going this route you are giving up a lot of flexibility both now and down the road. It is worth noting that with an M16 you get a lot of flexibility and historical significance albeit at a much higher price.
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Posted: 7/25/2021 4:49:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M11/9 is hard to beat with all the aftermarket stuff available now, including the Lage 5.56 upper which is insanely cool This is the way. |
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Posted: 7/25/2021 4:56:20 PM EDT
[#12]
 
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Posted: 7/25/2021 6:03:51 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 7/25/2021 7:35:56 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a Mac and M16 and several others.
The Mac is just fun. Really. It’s not a historical gun, so mod it to your hearts desire! I had mine cerakoted to match the Lage upper. Looks and shoots fantastic. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 4:56:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Hard to ignore the Barbie aspect of the M10/M11 & M16 - both great choices.
A few other entry-level guns to consider that have not seen a massive runup Reising Spitfire M2 AC556 |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 11:05:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Whatever you get you need to look beyond price and look at availability of parts. I consider my Sten to be a entry level gun where my Type-96 that I paid approximately the same as the Sten for is not. It took me well over a year to source a few small parts I needed to keep the gun running. The 96 also has to be reloaded for as there is virtually no commercially available ammo.
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Posted: 7/27/2021 7:56:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My first MG was a BRP STG U9. It’s a great gun. Take a look at those. I have the BRP U9 and no regrets. They are practically new guns will full customer support from BRP |
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Posted: 7/29/2021 9:34:27 PM EDT
[#18]
The entry-level guns are exactly the same as they were 10 years ago, just more expensive.
MACs, tube-guns, Uzi bolt-guns, etc. M16s I would NOT include here due to even low-end price and somewhat complicated variations in conversion. You’d want to understand what you’re really looking at and what the market price range is before you commit. |
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Posted: 8/5/2021 10:45:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Entry level" can mean different things to different people. For years the MAC10 or M11/9 was it. They were inexpensive and easy to find. They were bullet hoses with crappy buttstocks and the handful of available aftermarket stuff looked like it was cobbled together by a monkey. Looking at what is available now, that situation has obviously changed. The MAC-series of guns are probably still the most available, just due to the numbers of transferrable guns out there. But for an "entry level" gun, there are a few other options that are at, or slightly under the MAC or M11/9 price point. I'm thinking about M1 carbine conversions, Reisings, some of the registered tube guns like STENs, Stemple tubes, or a couple others. You occasionally see a Spitfire or Commando, which is a Thompson look-alike (sort of), several of which were registered as or reclassified as machine guns. They don't come up for sale all that often, and are sometimes looked down on but the handful I've seen ran well. They usually sell at a discount compared to many other MGs. Some of these "entry" level MGs are low in cost for a reason. Mags for the Reising are expensive when you can find them, for example. But as the cost of the guns increase, people will find ways to make them useable. I have a set of 3D printed sleeves that allow the use of Promag Uzi .45 magazines in the Reising, and they actually work very well in my gun. @garrettj Could you pm me the source for those sleeves? |
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Posted: 8/6/2021 7:57:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @garrettj Could you pm me the source for those sleeves? Discussion and PM info for the guy making them here. |
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:16:38 PM EDT
[#21]
I’m surprised people are recommending anything other than an M11/9.
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Posted: 8/17/2021 1:40:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M11 is hard to beat. Can be had for around $8k and lots of after market support. Lage uppers are quite nice plus they have a 5.56 upper now which is way cheaper than picking up an M16 at $20-30k By the time you buy 3-4 different uppers (.22lr, 9mm K, 9mm drum upper, 5.56mm upper) you’ve got another $3500 in accessories on top your $8k open subgun... that’s still just an open bolt gun. I think RLL’s are still only like $14k and let you do everything but 22LR kits. And you get to do it with modern new AR lowers/builds and AR mags & uppers/accessories you already own. Plus you have the option to use RDB smg uppers. And (legally questionably) use the RLL in a 308 AR platform. My first MG was a M11/9 with 3 Lage uppers. I traded the whole setup with all the accessories/mags nearly straight up for a RLL and am more happy happy with my full auto ARs & PCCs than I was with the retrofitted M11 setups. |
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Posted: 8/18/2021 10:41:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Just my two cents…I bought a transferable stephenville MAC-10/45 back in 2012 for $5000. Once it was approved, I sent it to Sam at Practical Solutions and had him reweld the entire setup. I paired it with my AAC Tirant .45 and it is a very smooth shooting weapon. Lots of fun and had always been very appealing to me for some odd reason. Pretty heavy once loaded but man it’s built like a brick shit house. Buy a MAC, whether it be a 9mm or a damn .45 and don’t look back, thanks us all later.
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Posted: 8/21/2021 9:15:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By the time you buy 3-4 different uppers (.22lr, 9mm K, 9mm drum upper, 5.56mm upper) you’ve got another $3500 in accessories on top your $8k open subgun... that’s still just an open bolt gun. I think RLL’s are still only like $14k and let you do everything but 22LR kits. And you get to do it with modern new AR lowers/builds and AR mags & uppers/accessories you already own. Plus you have the option to use RDB smg uppers. And (legally questionably) use the RLL in a 308 AR platform. My first MG was a M11/9 with 3 Lage uppers. I traded the whole setup with all the accessories/mags nearly straight up for a RLL and am more happy happy with my full auto ARs & PCCs than I was with the retrofitted M11 setups. Your information IMHO, is old. The last LL I noticed on the boards was $17,000, just the link. To buy the LL you need the whole amount. The M11/M10 you can start at $8,000 to $9,000, then buy the accessories as you can afford them. The original post was for a "entry level " machinegun. To me any M16 variant, including the LL, is double the market value of any "entry level " gun including the Mac style family of RR machineguns. So I don't think that a LL would qualify as entry level. YMMV. Scott |
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