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Posted: 2/20/2022 11:39:16 AM EDT
I found a mid 1930's Type 38 yesterday for $249, I was all on board except looking down the muzzle, it was missing the first inch or two of rifling. I bought it anyway since it was part of a estate blow out where at normal prices at this gun store  they want $400 for a sporterized smooth bore Arisaka trainer, or $800 for a POF Lee Enfield missing parts with a rail epoxied were the sight was.
I only saw one post on the internet on the topic and I didn't see any useful information. There is a step from where the rifling ends to the section that is drilled out like the Mosin's are so that would rule out it just being excessive wear from cleaning. I heard some rifles were made into lamps and had some of the barrel drilled out to fit a rod, but I heard those were typically threaded after, and there is no evidence to suggest it was modified.
There is no evidence of modification to the bolt, chamber, wood, finish, markings or damage to the finish after the mum was ground that would suggest anyone has put the action or barrel in a vise or lathe to try and ream it to a new cartridge.
Any ideas, I've never heard anything on the Japanese doing counter bores and this is definitely not a trainer so I'm at a loss.
Link Posted: 2/20/2022 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Hard to say, I've never seen a counter bored Arisaka. Probably bubba.

Any sign of barrel bulge near muzzle ?
Link Posted: 2/20/2022 3:06:18 PM EDT
[#2]
I did not see any indication inside or outside of damage. The counter bore goes maybe to about the front sight, only thing besides that is the follower was rounded off so it does not lock on an empty magazine, underneath the wood everything is pristine.
Link Posted: 2/20/2022 3:27:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Ehh prolly shoots ok.
I've a 38 and the rifling washes out about that far.
Or it need counter bored.
Link Posted: 2/21/2022 8:22:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Can't say I've hard a lot about them being counterbored, but at $249, I'd probably take a chance on it.

It's probably worth more than that as a wall hanger or in parts.
Link Posted: 2/21/2022 6:40:02 PM EDT
[#5]
There is nothing wrong with counter boring.  It serves a great purpose when needed to deal with a fubar muzzle or beat up rifling.

The Finns counterbored a huge number of Mosins.  I don't know if the Soviets did the same during their make-work rearsenaling.

Link Posted: 2/21/2022 7:13:36 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm not concerned about counterbore, I'm concerned about not knowing what is going on. If I heard the Japanese did counter bores like the Russians did I wouldn't have thought anything of it but since I see no information and it looks too consistent to be wear, so I'm curious how it got like that. I don't see any good pictures of Type 38 chambers or bores (or at all) so I'm unsure if it it's been tampered with post war as I've seen some otherwise perfect original ones online that were actually .257
Link Posted: 2/23/2022 6:22:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not concerned about counterbore, I'm concerned about not knowing what is going on. If I heard the Japanese did counter bores like the Russians did I wouldn't have thought anything of it but since I see no information and it looks too consistent to be wear, so I'm curious how it got like that. I don't see any good pictures of Type 38 chambers or bores (or at all) so I'm unsure if it it's been tampered with post war as I've seen some otherwise perfect original ones online that were actually .257
View Quote


I remember seeing an ad somewhere - I think it was Shotgun News / Firearms News - where a company was selling counterbored Type 38s.  I remember it because they stated "rifles have been counterbored" in the ad.  

They didn't say where they came from, though.  I strongly suspect it was done post war somewhere.
Link Posted: 2/23/2022 11:07:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I remember seeing an ad somewhere - I think it was Shotgun News / Firearms News - where a company was selling counterbored Type 38s.  I remember it because they stated "rifles have been counterbored" in the ad.  

They didn't say where they came from, though.  I strongly suspect it was done post war somewhere.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not concerned about counterbore, I'm concerned about not knowing what is going on. If I heard the Japanese did counter bores like the Russians did I wouldn't have thought anything of it but since I see no information and it looks too consistent to be wear, so I'm curious how it got like that. I don't see any good pictures of Type 38 chambers or bores (or at all) so I'm unsure if it it's been tampered with post war as I've seen some otherwise perfect original ones online that were actually .257


I remember seeing an ad somewhere - I think it was Shotgun News / Firearms News - where a company was selling counterbored Type 38s.  I remember it because they stated "rifles have been counterbored" in the ad.  

They didn't say where they came from, though.  I strongly suspect it was done post war somewhere.


Springfield Sporters? I know some Japanese rifles where imported from China in the 80's.
Link Posted: 3/1/2022 4:35:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Finland traded off non standard arms in the late 1920's. Some of those were Type 38's to Albania in exchange for MN M-91's. Does your Type 38 have any Finnish property marks? Maybe the Finns counter bored it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2022 7:38:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 3/2/2022 7:54:15 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Interesting.  What were the Finns doing with that firearm in the first place?
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The Russians bought large numbers of Type 30, Type 35 and Type 38 Arisaka's from Japan during the early days of WW1. Many ended up in Finland prior to and during the Finnish Civil War in 1918, it was the second most numerous rifle type after the Mosin during that conflict. After the Civil War the Finn's used these Arisaka's to arm their Civil Guard while the Army got Mosin's. Once enough Mosin's were available to arm the Civil Guard the Arisaka's were withdrawn from service. Some were traded  to Estonia for Mosin's in  1919, some were later sold to Albania in 1928. It's possible to find some of these in the U.S. but they are uncommon. I've got a Type 30 with Finnish Civil Guard markings.
Link Posted: 3/2/2022 8:55:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  The Russians bought large numbers of Type 30, Type 35 and Type 38 Arisaka's from Japan during the early days of WW1. Many ended up in Finland prior to and during the Finnish Civil War in 1918, it was the second most numerous rifle type after the Mosin during that conflict. After the Civil War the Finn's used these Arisaka's to arm their Civil Guard while the Army got Mosin's. Once enough Mosin's were available to arm the Civil Guard the Arisaka's were withdrawn from service. Some were traded  to Estonia for Mosin's in  1919, some were later sold to Albania in 1928. It's possible to find some of these in the U.S. but they are uncommon. I've got a Type 30 with Finnish Civil Guard markings.
View Quote


Oooh, the Type 30's are antiques.
Link Posted: 3/2/2022 9:26:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 3/2/2022 11:34:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Finland traded off non standard arms in the late 1920's. Some of those were Type 38's to Albania in exchange for MN M-91's. Does your Type 38 have any Finnish property marks? Maybe the Finns counter bored it.
View Quote

The Chrysanthemum was ground, not peened and there is no SA or any other markings, would be too late for that since it's in the 1.8 million serial range.
Link Posted: 3/6/2022 10:08:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Springfield Sporters? I know some Japanese rifles where imported from China in the 80's.
View Quote


It could have been Springfield Sporters.  I just can't remember.
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