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Posted: 1/20/2020 10:07:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2020 10:25:35 PM EST by desertmoon]
This was in Alaska the other day.



Down here in AZ, the worst I have to worry about is maybe a -5 to -10 degrees F in the high country. At the very worst.

You guys think the hammer pack and the stock group could handle operating at such temps as -50 F or below????

Just curious.
Link Posted: 1/20/2020 10:32:52 PM EST
My fingertips crack in Missouri winter weather. In that temp, I think my hands would shatter.
Link Posted: 1/20/2020 10:41:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Spleenless-Dave:
My fingertips crack in Missouri winter weather. In that temp, I think my hands would shatter.
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In AZ, mine crack at about 50. The colder it gets, the worse it gets. Something about a desert dry cold that just saps the water from everything. Like freeze drying.
Link Posted: 1/20/2020 10:53:50 PM EST
Just toss a couple hand warmers where the cleaning kit is stored and the AUG will be good to go.
Link Posted: 1/20/2020 11:07:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2020 11:08:29 PM EST by maleante]
I used to work in oil and gas completions, the system we used was rated to -20° F. We routinely operated in much colder conditions during the winter. I used to think that just because it worked in colder temperatures didn't mean that the system wouldn't one day just catastrophically fail... I've never seen anything near as cold in the picture above and I wouldn't trust anything to run right in those temperatures either. Car, electronics, gun, etc. nothing survives the cold.
Link Posted: 1/20/2020 11:31:18 PM EST
At that temp, it's how much lube you have freezing everything together.

An AR, AK, or M1 would have no clear advantages.
Link Posted: 1/20/2020 11:33:55 PM EST
So cold, it even turned the Coca-Cola truck white.
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 12:15:29 AM EST
Bro that's just gross. Alaska should be a penal colony.
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 1:33:32 AM EST
There's a reason the rifles used by the Canadian Rangers and Sledgepatrol Sirius in areas like that are bolt guns. Gunpowder operates differently at different temperatures, I expect temps that cold could be too cold to create sufficiently high pressures to run a semi-auto.
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 2:14:59 AM EST
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:
In AZ, mine crack at about 50. The colder it gets, the worse it gets. Something about a desert dry cold that just saps the water from everything. Like freeze drying.
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Originally Posted By Spleenless-Dave:
My fingertips crack in Missouri winter weather. In that temp, I think my hands would shatter.
In AZ, mine crack at about 50. The colder it gets, the worse it gets. Something about a desert dry cold that just saps the water from everything. Like freeze drying.
Corn Huskers lotion, clear bottle yellow label for chapped hands.
Udderbalm would be good for them too, actually provides some frostbite protection.
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 11:19:09 AM EST
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Originally Posted By CorruptBureaucrat:
There's a reason the rifles used by the Canadian Rangers and Sledgepatrol Sirius in areas like that are bolt guns. Gunpowder operates differently at different temperatures, I expect temps that cold could be too cold to create sufficiently high pressures to run a semi-auto.
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True that. The US M1917 is still in active service in the Danish military as the primary rifle in their Greenland patrols. Good old 30-06 even.

It's kind of funny, of all the guns I have (well, had - sold it), the only one that was true 100% correct with an as-issued military primary-service rifle still in modern service - is the M1917 bolt action rifle that is a 102 year old rifle.
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 4:13:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2020 4:13:44 PM EST by Frens]
The polymer used for the AUG stock is a 30% glass filled PA66 if I recall correctly.. great for high temps applications but can also handle low temp like -40 Celsius or so.. not sure on the exact value..

Don’t know it the trigger pack is made of the same material
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 7:18:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Frens:
The polymer used for the AUG stock is a 30% glass filled PA66 if I recall correctly.. great for high temps applications but can also handle low temp like -40 Celsius or so.. not sure on the exact value..

Don't know it the trigger pack is made of the same material
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Hmmm...

Maleante, any ideas on the trigger pack material?
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 11:25:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2020 11:40:14 PM EST by Boregonian]
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Originally Posted By MisterPX:
At that temp, it's how much lube you have freezing everything together.

An AR, AK, or M1 would have no clear advantages.
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I recall reading about German soldiers on the eastern front in WW2 having considerable difficulties with their weapons freezing up with all variety of desperate measures being taken to keep them operating. Very romantic the idea of sleeping with your rifle in a sleeping bag just to keep it functional, wouldn’t wanna have to do it with an MG42. My guess is that between the lower pressure and the lube in the recoil springs gumming up you would probably have issues with an AUG cycling.

From that perspective I would expect an AR or AK to have the advantage as for both they would be easier to remove the oil from various moving parts. Can’t very well go removing the AUG thrust caps in the field to clean off all the lube.

From there you would need to know the Tg or glassy transition temperature for the various polymers used in the AUG. There are standards for measuring the brittleness temperature of various plastics under specific conditions and my guess is that Steyr has all that info, it’s just a matter of figuring out how to get it from them.

My feeling is that the AK has the upper hand for any extreme cold in that all the most relevant bits are made of and held together by metal. You break a plastic grip on an AR and the selector detent thing falls out you have a minor problem that isn’t really gonna happen with an AK. I’m sure that military issue M4s are made out of particular polymers however it’s anybody’s guess what a lot of cheaper commercial stock sets are molded from. Several years back I had the butt stock on a PTR break in half in cold weather not even doing anything rough, went with real HK furniture after that.

I guess if you wanted to make an “Arctic AUG” a first step would be a 2020 Precision hammer pack as I believe it is made entirely of metal. From there I would probably remove the thrust caps and lube the recoil springs with something known to be good at low temp. I would also look at getting a stock that only has a right hand ejection port as that little plastic cover on the ambi ejection port stocks seems like it would be a weak point.
Link Posted: 1/22/2020 5:41:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Hmmm...

Maleante, any ideas on the trigger pack material?
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Originally Posted By Frens:
The polymer used for the AUG stock is a 30% glass filled PA66 if I recall correctly.. great for high temps applications but can also handle low temp like -40 Celsius or so.. not sure on the exact value..

Don't know it the trigger pack is made of the same material
Hmmm...

Maleante, any ideas on the trigger pack material?
I guess it could be the same material since it would fit the need nicely. PA66GF30 and similar are good for mechanical applications.

My stock is clearly marked as such. But on my assembled fcg I couldnt see any markings.
If any of you have a disassembled one maybe the markings are hidden somewhere..

-74 F must be a nightmare for the shooter even if the rifle is ok
Link Posted: 1/22/2020 7:06:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Boregonian:

My feeling is that the AK has the upper hand for any extreme cold in that all the most relevant bits are made of and held together by metal. You break a plastic grip on an AR and the selector detent thing falls out you have a minor problem that isn’t really gonna happen with an AK. I’m sure that military issue M4s are made out of particular polymers however it’s anybody’s guess what a lot of cheaper commercial stock sets are molded from. Several years back I had the butt stock on a PTR break in half in cold weather not even doing anything rough, went with real HK furniture after that.
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if there's enough cold to break a pistol grip I bet the blood in my veins will be frozen as well

according to the 80's M16A2 TDP a blend of Zytel is used for the pistol grip.
that is the patented Dupont's name for a glass filled PA66.. basically the same used on the AUG.
data sheet available online show testing performed at -40F.
Link Posted: 1/22/2020 9:35:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:

Hmmm...

Maleante, any ideas on the trigger pack material?
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I don't know. I could try to find out, but for the effort and pain it takes to get an answer out of Steyr now I'd just as well not.
Link Posted: 1/22/2020 7:00:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By maleante:

I don't know. I could try to find out, but for the effort and pain it takes to get an answer out of Steyr now I'd just as well not.
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Understood. Wish I could win the lotto.....it would be travel time! I gots ta know.

Actually, I don't. It would be fun, however.
Link Posted: 1/22/2020 10:43:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2020 10:45:21 PM EST by maleante]
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Originally Posted By desertmoon:
Understood. Wish I could win the lotto.....it would be travel time! I gots ta know.

Actually, I don't. It would be fun, however.
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If I hit the lotto I'd just buy Steyr and run it as I see fit - fire everyone and hire a team of engineers interested in guns and start innovating...

As it is, Steyr isn't moving in any particular direction. They've been resting on their laurels for far too long.

Let me tell you a story: once upon a time there was a gun called the prohunter. You could buy it for a reasonable price in nearly any flavor you could imagine. They were great, accurate, well built guns. Then Steyr decided to "discontinue" the prohunter. Now Steyr releases what they call a prohunter II in 3 calibers and market it as "an affordable gun for the American family". What does steyr consider affordable? $1200. nothing changed but for less options and a higher price. Meh.
Link Posted: 2/20/2020 7:22:25 AM EST
Damn.........closest I’ve been in was -47
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