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Posted: 1/3/2021 1:28:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I sold my factory A1 about 10 years ago and now think I want to pull the trigger again but on an A2 this time. Anyone got a line on an original finish A2 coming for sale? I've seen quite a few "unfired" ones lately and saw the Rock Island Auction ones went for about $35K IIRC. The "unfired" ones are pushing $60K!!! Unless it’s in original box sealed in plastic I would t believe any claims that a MG isn’t fired. Any dealers/sellers can clean strip an M16, super clean it and claim it’s unfired. I bought my non-colt RR thatwas labeled as “only test fired by previous owner” When I opened up the lower it was PACKED with gunpowder residue and the rubber end on the buffer spring had actually fallen apart and was chewed to pieces in the buffer tube. Guess the previous own test fired it with tens of thousands of rounds  I didn’t care as I paid $1k under the going rate at the time and sold all the parts and pieces for another $500 so ended up with a really good deal and after a trip to USAnodizing it looks brand new. Also keep in mind people often significantly over pay at auctions. Lazy buyers who don’t do research on firearm values. There is a YouTube video by demolition ranch where he buys a uzi at auction and he owed pays by several thousand and that was Before all the fees. But he was like “I’m going to win this no matter what” and that is the mentality many bidders have. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 1:25:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Totally agreed on the "not fired" bit. It's very highly unlikely, and doesn't really matter much anyway.
So are you saying you don't think A2's are going for the $35K they seem to fetch at auction? |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 4:25:05 PM EDT
[#3]
There are all kinds of M16A2’s out there and they’re not all equal. I think a good example of a desirable version might easily go for 35 in this market. Legitimately NIB guns will certainly go for more. Conversely, there are people fishing all the time with less than stellar examples asking the moon for them. If you haven’t already done so, educate yourself about exactly what’s out there. You’re going to want to know what you’re looking at if a deal comes up and, like a lot of things, the devil is in the details.
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Posted: 1/5/2021 5:15:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are all kinds of M16A2’s out there and they’re not all equal. I think a good example of a desirable version might easily go for 35 in this market. Legitimately NIB guns will certainly go for more. Conversely, there are people fishing all the time with less than stellar examples asking the moon for them. If you haven’t already done so, educate yourself about exactly what’s out there. You’re going to want to know what you’re looking at if a deal comes up and, like a lot of things, the devil is in the details. My grail gun is a mint condition, still in original plastic, Colt M16A2 Commando, the one marked "Safe/Semi/Auto" instead of burst. I have seen maybe two over the 5ish years and they both sold for over $40k If I had more money that i knew what to do with I would pick up one, but it doesn't make sense to pay that premium when a non-colt RR literally does the same exact thing and 99% of the people who you meet will never know the difference in value between and colt and non-colt RR and 99.99% will not recognize that is a commando variant. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 11:43:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My grail gun is a mint condition, still in original plastic, Colt M16A2 Commando, the one marked "Safe/Semi/Auto" instead of burst. I have seen maybe two over the 5ish years and they both sold for over $40k If I had more money that i knew what to do with I would pick up one, but it doesn't make sense to pay that premium when a non-colt RR literally does the same exact thing and 99% of the people who you meet will never know the difference in value between and colt and non-colt RR and 99.99% will not recognize that is a commando variant. Same, but I don’t want it new in original plastic. I want to shoot all MGs I own. I have a couple NIB collectible firearms and they are too valuable to shoot. I don’t really enjoy owning them. |
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Posted: 1/6/2021 11:46:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same, but I don’t want it new in original plastic. I want to shoot all MGs I own. I have a couple NIB collectible firearms and they are too valuable to shoot. I don’t really enjoy owning them. Agreed. Its a pretty foreign concept around here but I actually sell guns I dont enjoy shooting or that collect dust in my safe. Quality > Quantity |
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Posted: 1/6/2021 12:12:59 PM EDT
[#7]
For sure I would want a shooter as well. I owned a Colt M16A1 and shot it in whatever configurations floated my boat at the time regardless of the receiver markings. I'm even fine with a worn finish receiver as long as it's holes aren't elongated like I've seen on a few people wanted $35K for. I think a lot of sellers just assume you're an idiot, and to be fair, I'm sure a lot of buyers just don't care either, but I'm at least a little picky on it.
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Posted: 1/6/2021 1:31:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For sure I would want a shooter as well. I owned a Colt M16A1 and shot it in whatever configurations floated my boat at the time regardless of the receiver markings. I'm even fine with a worn finish receiver as long as it's holes aren't elongated like I've seen on a few people wanted $35K for. I think a lot of sellers just assume you're an idiot, and to be fair, I'm sure a lot of buyers just don't care either, but I'm at least a little picky on it. Picky is a good thing, it gets you the gun you really want. Here's a little motivational eye candy for you, in case you need it. 
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Posted: 1/6/2021 5:50:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Picky is a good thing, it gets you the gun you really want. Here's a little motivational eye candy for you, in case you need it. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL176/1171244/2214857/413726564.jpg Sharp looking receiver, but there are a few of those M-16A2's floating around that have been remanufactured by Colt not to long ago/let's say after the 86' ban. Easy to spot and a real risk of owning. Buyer beware... |
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Posted: 1/6/2021 7:42:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Now is that a procedural red flag in buying though? I thought those had on paper been registered in 1986?
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Posted: 1/6/2021 7:42:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Is that yours?! That's what I'm looking for!
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Posted: 1/6/2021 9:52:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes, that's my gun and no, you can't have it. ;-)
As far as I know those "new" a2 receivers are transferring successfully. People are concerned about them because of the risk the BATFE will change their mind about their legality. There's absolutely no doubt those receivers didn't exist in '86 and the BATFE has changed the rules of the game before. |
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Posted: 1/7/2021 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sharp looking receiver, but there are a few of those M-16A2's floating around that have been remanufactured by Colt not to long ago/let's say after the 86' ban. Easy to spot and a real risk of owning. Buyer beware... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Picky is a good thing, it gets you the gun you really want. Here's a little motivational eye candy for you, in case you need it. http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL176/1171244/2214857/413726564.jpg Sharp looking receiver, but there are a few of those M-16A2's floating around that have been remanufactured by Colt not to long ago/let's say after the 86' ban. Easy to spot and a real risk of owning. Buyer beware... I'm not sure if you're implying that the one pictured is one of those remanufactured ones, but it's not. That one looks like an authentic, made in the 80"s A2. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 10:12:25 AM EDT
[#14]
My God that is a beautiful representation! I ran an armory in the military and dealt with hundreds of these things from 601's to M4's new in the box, and yours looks better than all of those! I had zero of the A2's with that really cool Colt reinforced area in the front and back that blends in so well. The FN's just looked like current tooling with electro pencil markings and were nothing to look at. I used that armory to practice my skills in touching up different blemishes and scratches to see how close I could get it to blend in with the rest of the receiver. As long as no one paints one of those very few A2 receivers that made it into the registry in '86, it's very possible to touch them up to look really good again.
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Posted: 1/8/2021 4:56:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My God that is a beautiful representation! I ran an armory in the military and dealt with hundreds of these things from 601's to M4's new in the box, and yours looks better than all of those! I had zero of the A2's with that really cool Colt reinforced area in the front and back that blends in so well. The FN's just looked like current tooling with electro pencil markings and were nothing to look at. I used that armory to practice my skills in touching up different blemishes and scratches to see how close I could get it to blend in with the rest of the receiver. As long as no one paints one of those very few A2 receivers that made it into the registry in '86, it's very possible to touch them up to look really good again. Thanks. Please reconsider "touching up" a factory gun. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a little honest wear and once you "touch it up" the gun is no longer original. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 5:02:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure if you're implying that the one pictured is one of those remanufactured ones, but it's not. That one looks like an authentic, made in the 80"s A2. I don't know enough about when Colt phased in the beefed up front take down pin area and when Colt added material to the rear of the lower where the buffer tube screws in but the receiver in the picture clearly shows both upgrades not machined into receivers before May 19, 1986. I would say that if that M-16A2 is transferrable with those two upgrades than yes, from what I have learned is those receivers were remanufactured in... was it 2005 2007? I forget. I'm just a student of the gun and am trying to learn. I do own a Colt M-16A1 and LOVE it. I think on occasion to sell it and "Upgrade" to a A2 but... |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 8:05:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know enough about when Colt phased in the beefed up front take down pin area and when Colt added material to the rear of the lower where the buffer tube screws in but the receiver in the picture clearly shows both upgrades not machined into receivers before May 19, 1986. I would say that if that M-16A2 is transferrable with those two upgrades than yes, from what I have learned is those receivers were remanufactured in... was it 2005 2007? I forget. I'm just a student of the gun and am trying to learn. I do own a Colt M-16A1 and LOVE it. I think on occasion to sell it and "Upgrade" to a A2 but... Yes, Colt was using forgings that had these reinforcements before May 19, 1986. There are differences between the original A2 reinforced lowers (like the one in the pic) and the newer M4 reinforced lowers that are the subject of the ongoing controversy. Check out the A2 picture reference library. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/USGI-M16A2-Lower-Forgings-and-Variations-Guide-Work-In-Progress-UPDATES-TO-OP-22-JAN-13/127-589064/ |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 11:01:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know enough about when Colt phased in the beefed up front take down pin area and when Colt added material to the rear of the lower where the buffer tube screws in but the receiver in the picture clearly shows both upgrades not machined into receivers before May 19, 1986. I would say that if that M-16A2 is transferrable with those two upgrades than yes, from what I have learned is those receivers were remanufactured in... was it 2005 2007? I forget. I'm just a student of the gun and am trying to learn. I do own a Colt M-16A1 and LOVE it. I think on occasion to sell it and "Upgrade" to a A2 but... The lower receiver re-enforcement's were one of the defining features of the M16A2. As adopted, the re-enforced rear area was relatively smooth and merged gradually into the lower. In comparison, the more recent re-enforcement’s are much more more heavily defined. The M16A2 in the picture above is an original A2 made in1985, fully transferable and period correct in every way. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:12:24 PM EDT
[#19]
As to pricing, I bought an 86’ burst marked complete rifle that was mint about 1.5-2 years ago. Paid mid twenties because it was being sold by Frank (reputable source). Love it as it fully fenced and fits modern colt uppers perfectly. My advice is decide if the phrase “auto” is worth a couple grand. They seem to bring a premium. Happy hunting.
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Posted: 1/11/2021 10:28:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Yeah for sure no. I wouldn't care about the burst marking if I could get a nice A2 in the mid 20's. There's a really nice one on GB right now that is auto marked but he want's $45K for it.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 5:44:56 PM EDT
[#21]
I have an SSA.
Unfired by me, mint but no box. PM if interested. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 9:20:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are all kinds of M16A2’s out there and they’re not all equal. I think a good example of a desirable version might easily go for 35 in this market. Legitimately NIB guns will certainly go for more. Conversely, there are people fishing all the time with less than stellar examples asking the moon for them. If you haven’t already done so, educate yourself about exactly what’s out there. You’re going to want to know what you’re looking at if a deal comes up and, like a lot of things, the devil is in the details. @Beowulf What do you need to look for? A friend of mine has this he wants to sell for ~ $25K.   
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Posted: 2/5/2021 11:37:02 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Beowulf What do you need to look for? A friend of mine has this he wants to sell for ~ $25K. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/6C8D22A1-3A37-4D31-82DE-11AB7FC79FE9-1811579.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/9C2EE9AF-86E7-486A-A428-F7D8C0502DF3-1811578.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/0991DD8D-96D5-4CFB-8A66-7BB0F26A6423-1811577.jpg Regular M16s (non A1 or A2) variants seem to be selling in the $23-25k range, so price is high but still doable. Conditions is good, doesnt have a matching upper but not a deal breaker for M16s. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 1:56:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Beowulf What do you need to look for? A friend of mine has this he wants to sell for ~ $25K. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/6C8D22A1-3A37-4D31-82DE-11AB7FC79FE9-1811579.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/9C2EE9AF-86E7-486A-A428-F7D8C0502DF3-1811578.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/0991DD8D-96D5-4CFB-8A66-7BB0F26A6423-1811577.jpg I agree with Spartikis, that’s not an M16A2. It appears to be a factory M16 receiver in ok condition with a new upper. IMHO it’s overpriced for what you’re getting. Having said that, it is a factory receiver so it’s not ridiculously overpriced. You may want to look at the entire deal, not just the gun. You say it’s from a friend so presumably he isn‘t going to pull something nefarious. Peace of mind when spending a bunch of money has to be worth something. Is this a local sale, so no dealer involved? That will save you transfer fees and wait time. Again, that has to be worth something. Can you inspect and/or shoot the gun prior to purchase? That also adds value to the transaction. Anyway, you get the idea. Mid 20’s for a factory gun is in the ballpark but ultimately it’s up to you if it’s worth the money. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 2:50:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with Spartikis, that’s not an M16A2. It appears to be a factory M16 receiver in ok condition with a new upper. IMHO it’s overpriced for what you’re getting. Having said that, it is a factory receiver so it’s not ridiculously overpriced. You may want to look at the entire deal, not just the gun. You say it’s from a friend so presumably he isn‘t going to pull something nefarious. Peace of mind when spending a bunch of money has to be worth something. Is this a local sale, so no dealer involved? That will save you transfer fees and wait time. Again, that has to be worth something. Can you inspect and/or shoot the gun prior to purchase? That also adds value to the transaction. Anyway, you get the idea. Mid 20’s for a factory gun is in the ballpark but ultimately it’s up to you if it’s worth the money. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @Beowulf What do you need to look for? A friend of mine has this he wants to sell for ~ $25K. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/6C8D22A1-3A37-4D31-82DE-11AB7FC79FE9-1811579.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/9C2EE9AF-86E7-486A-A428-F7D8C0502DF3-1811578.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/36246/0991DD8D-96D5-4CFB-8A66-7BB0F26A6423-1811577.jpg I agree with Spartikis, that’s not an M16A2. It appears to be a factory M16 receiver in ok condition with a new upper. IMHO it’s overpriced for what you’re getting. Having said that, it is a factory receiver so it’s not ridiculously overpriced. You may want to look at the entire deal, not just the gun. You say it’s from a friend so presumably he isn‘t going to pull something nefarious. Peace of mind when spending a bunch of money has to be worth something. Is this a local sale, so no dealer involved? That will save you transfer fees and wait time. Again, that has to be worth something. Can you inspect and/or shoot the gun prior to purchase? That also adds value to the transaction. Anyway, you get the idea. Mid 20’s for a factory gun is in the ballpark but ultimately it’s up to you if it’s worth the money. Send the pics to Frank from Midwest (or any other dealer) and tell him youre interested in selling and see what the offer is. More than likely they will be paying around 80-90% of market value so around $20-22.5k for a M16 like that. Take that info to the seller and tell him youll meet him half way on the price, something around $22-23k would be fair for a private sale. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 4:32:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Send the pics to Frank from Midwest (or any other dealer) and tell him youre interested in selling and see what the offer is. More than likely they will be paying around 80-90% of market value so around $20-22.5k for a M16 like that. Take that info to the seller and tell him youll meet him half way on the price, something around $22-23k would be fair for a private sale. I think that's probably a good number, fair to everyone. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 6:23:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that's probably a good number, fair to everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Send the pics to Frank from Midwest (or any other dealer) and tell him youre interested in selling and see what the offer is. More than likely they will be paying around 80-90% of market value so around $20-22.5k for a M16 like that. Take that info to the seller and tell him youll meet him half way on the price, something around $22-23k would be fair for a private sale. I think that's probably a good number, fair to everyone. @Beowulf @Spartikis Thanks, guys. He’s retiring and decided to sell it. Ironically, I just shot the (Form 4) M16 in October. There was an SOT friend there as well who is closing up shop and they had some dealer samples as well. I got to should an MP40 which was as smooth as a sewing machine. I only have one machine gun, a Mini Uzi. The M16 ran great! He used to have the upper for it but sold it off and put that Bushmaster dissipator upper on it. It was since the fall that he decided to sell it and he thought I already knew that but I just found out last night. He was planning on selling it through an auction house. ETA: I apologize for side-tracking the thread. |
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