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Posted: 1/11/2019 11:16:49 AM EDT
Last month I dropped off my stripped lower, upper and rail to have cerakoted in the color burnt bronze. Couple of weeks ago I got a call that they were ready for my to pick up and when I arrived I quickly noticed that they didn't look as good as I had thought they would. On the upper receiver I was able to still see some black bleeding through on certain spots so asked the guy if that is normal and after looking over it himself he said no. He asked if I could leave them there so they could strip them all and recoat them again.
Yesterday I got a call that they were all done and ready to be picked up. After I got there I inspected them again and was not completely happy with them. It looks like they redid the upper only and some spots on it had more of a gloss finish than the rest of it. The lower and rail have no gloss to it at all, more of a flat finish while the upper has a couple of spots of gloss which gives it more of a metallic look which is what I had thought the entire set would look like. By this time I was already mad and just left with my parts to inspect them more at home. Indoors the upper looks a little darker than the lower and rail and outdoors it doesn't look as bad. I have no experience with cerakote, this is my first time ever having something done so not sure if this is normal or if it should all look uniform and applied evenly. I'm debating if I should complain, take them back and have them redo it for a 3rd time or just live with it and build it up. What do you guys think? I napped a couple of quick pics yesterday and will get more today. 
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Posted: 1/10/2019 8:51:06 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 1/10/2019 8:55:53 AM EDT
[#2]
It is hard to tell in the pictures. It should be even and uniform. I have sprayed some over the years. I haven’t sprayed BB, it looks like a tough color to get right. In those pics, The top pics looks right.
Is the lower billet? |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:09:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Both my blackout and 308 are burnt bronze. Neither is that shade though, so they either attempted to just mix their own or they're yet another shop that wants to be hipster-exclusive and have their own "custom blend" of some other color *and* burnt bronze.
Either way, cerakote is great if you have a safe queen. Both my cerakoted rifles have gotten plenty of field use, and it shows on the finish. It didn't last very long in some spots, that's for sure. It was applied IAW written instructions to the letter. Molyresin is my coating of choice from now on. My 2005-built AKS-74 (coated with semi-gloss black Molyresin) has THOUSANDS of rounds through it and the only wear in the finish is a tiny bit on the rails where the carrier rides, and the standard selector "smile" on the side of the receiver. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:13:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both my blackout and 308 are burnt bronze. Neither is that shade though, so they either attempted to just mix their own or they're yet another shop that wants to be hipster-exclusive and have their own "custom blend" of some other color *and* burnt bronze. Either way, cerakote is great if you have a safe queen. Both my cerakoted rifles have gotten plenty of field use, and it shows on the finish. It didn't last very long in some spots, that's for sure. It was applied IAW written instructions to the letter. Molyresin is my coating of choice from now on. My 2005-built AKS-74 (coated with semi-gloss black Molyresin) has THOUSANDS of rounds through it and the only wear in the finish is a tiny bit on the rails where the carrier rides, and the standard selector "smile" on the side of the receiver. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:17:12 AM EDT
[#5]
If the upper looks as bad in person as it does in the pic, I’d have them redo it.
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:22:50 AM EDT
[#6]
The difference is because they sprayed the upper separate from the lower the second time. Each time you spray you mix hardener into it. The ratio of hardener determines the gloss or sheen. You just add it by eye into a graduated cylinder so it is easy to get ratio differences. I personally see no reason to worry over it if it were mine, however since this is what I do.... I would have no problems at all in taking it back and redoing it. Humble brag on my last job. Arfcom Link
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:30:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Why would there be black showing through? Shouldn't they have been bead blasted?
Molycoat is a much better coating IMHO. Its much more durable albeit limited in color selection. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:41:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The shade looks off, but it is hard to tell in pictures unless done in the right lighting. My dad has been pro photographer for 50 years. Lighting is key |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:43:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would there be black showing through? Shouldn't they have been bead blasted? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would there be black showing through? Shouldn't they have been bead blasted? The manual Page 8, "Phase 3: Sandblasting" Anodized parts, such as AR-15 uppers and lowers, do require blasting, however, it is not necessary to
completely remove the anodized finish. Anodized parts that have been sufficiently blasted should have a dull, matte appearance. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:46:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Do you live in Washington? That work reminds me of Olympic Cerakote’s workmanship.
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Posted: 1/10/2019 10:10:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The difference is because they sprayed the upper separate from the lower the second time. Each time you spray you mix hardener into it. The ratio of hardener determines the gloss or sheen. You just add it by eye into a graduated cylinder so it is easy to get ratio differences. I personally see no reason to worry over it if it were mine, however since this is what I do.... I would have no problems at all in taking it back and redoing it. Humble brag on my last job. Arfcom Link |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 10:14:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you live in Washington? That work reminds me of Olympic Cerakote’s workmanship. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 10:24:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are some spots on the upper gloss compared to the rest? They were suppose to strip all 3 pieces and redo them all, that is what they told me when they asked to leave it there after the first time I went to pick it up. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 10:39:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just my opinion....I think they were not honest with you. I am betting they took the easy way out and just touched it up and did not media blast all the parts back down as they should have. I paint, mar, scratch, ding, and dent all of my stuff so I would just move on and never take them business again, but if you're really particular it may be worth finding another shop or calling their bluff. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 10:57:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would there be black showing through? Shouldn't they have been bead blasted? The manual Page 8, "Phase 3: Sandblasting" Anodized parts, such as AR-15 uppers and lowers, do require blasting, however, it is not necessary to
completely remove the anodized finish. Anodized parts that have been sufficiently blasted should have a dull, matte appearance. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 11:03:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just my opinion....I think they were not honest with you. I am betting they took the easy way out and just touched it up and did not media blast all the parts back down as they should have. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 11:10:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Lol. Looks fine to me. But then again I'm used to reality in life.
Anyone ever notice your plastic bumpers are generally a tick off one way or another from the fender/quarter panel they are adjacent to? How many times did you have the dealer repaint it to perfection? Probably didn't even notice it to begin with because it was new, so you just assumed it was perfect. I see this phenom a lot. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 11:26:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calm down dude, its been years since I did one. I guess I miss spoke wrt bead vs sandblasting. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:21:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that, I'm well aware of how to chase light. I'm making allowances for that; his looks *FAR* more tan/FDE than either of mine do in any light. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:27:33 PM EDT
[#20]
I guess my gripe is that I expected it to look much better considering I’ve seen a ton of pics of his work online and has produced some really good looking stuff. However I’ve never seen his work in person but he’s suppose to be the best here locally and that’s why I went with him. I’m not sure if he was the one who actually did the work or one of his employees. He use to be an employee at a local gun shop and was the one who did all the gunsmith work and cerakote jobs but has now opened his own shop.
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:37:58 PM EDT
[#21]
That color looks off, besides them not matching
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:41:44 PM EDT
[#22]
They look great to me
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Posted: 1/10/2019 12:55:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calm down dude. It is just internet 
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Posted: 1/10/2019 1:00:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess my gripe is that I expected it to look much better considering I've seen a ton of pics of his work online and has produced some really good looking stuff. However I've never seen his work in person but he's suppose to be the best here locally and that's why I went with him. I'm not sure if he was the one who actually did the work or one of his employees. He use to be an employee at a local gun shop and was the one who did all the gunsmith work and cerakote jobs but has now opened his own shop. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 2:59:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read the post above yours; I *AM* calm. Mayhaps you're reading a bit more into my posts than is actually there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Calm down dude. It is just internet
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Posted: 1/10/2019 3:08:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Great minds.....
That being said, I had my work done at ATX Armory and it all seemed pretty uniform. This is actually a Dark Burnt Bronze....90% Burnt Bronze and 10% Graphite Black as I wanted it a little darker. Had the upper, lower, handguard and buffer tube done. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 3:21:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They look great to me |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 4:14:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They look great to me |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 4:44:58 PM EDT
[#29]
It's funny. Several people say "looks fine"
You say it looks meh. As a Certified Cerakote applicator, I say "it would never have even been shown to you looking that way." I'm far pickier than 99% of my customers. If I don't like something, I redo it. And not just in patches like that person did. Every time you spray, there are 20 different things that affect the outcome. Prep level, humidity, temp, hardener ratio, airflow, Cerakote flow, distance to part, speed of motion, whether or not I really really have to pee, age of the Cerakote, etc., etc., etc. The proper way to do the mixes is by weight. We have a digital scale for measuring Cerakote and hardener. Eyeballing it doesn't cut it when a 1:16 ratio has a noticeably different sheen than a 1:18 (the "norm"). Personally, I'm picky enough where I'd take it back to them and have them shoot it again, all in the same spray cycle so that most of the variables are removed. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 9:51:41 PM EDT
[#30]
I agree with @WWoodworth. That would have never been released to you. I'd not have any more work coming in.
The coating thickness is uneven, which is why you're seeing differences in color and sheen. Under applied Burnt Bronze will look slightly greyed and flat when applied over anodizing. If you are willing to give them another shot, ask for it to be stripped and re-done. Or ask for a refund. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 10:48:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Looks like they are doing it by cylinder (eyeball, if you will), resprayed only one part and got busted on it. Doing it by cylinder is absolutely a joke unless you are working with a decent amount of material at one time and spraying a large batch. However, if they are doing that much at one time they can and should invest in a good scale. With a good scale, a drop of hardener can be measured. With a cylinder it takes quite a few drops to notice a change, especially with small amounts.
If the customer had 3 parts done and there was a legit problem with one of them, they should all get recoated again. There is no other way to do it right. If a shop is charging enough for their work they can afford to do it that way every time there is an issue that is their fault. It happens, but time should be taken to inspect and the customer should never see it if there is an issue. I'd rather disappoint on timeline than quality of work. Explain (do not complain) what the issue is and see what their response is. Maybe they will agree and do a better job fixing the issue. If they stiff you, find another shop to do your work in the future. Also, just because the owner does good work doesn't mean his employees do good work. Some are meant to work in this industry and far more shouldn't be working in this industry. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 11:46:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm super calm; it was just a question--some people genuinely have never read the actual documentation, so I was asking. You're giving the impression that you took it personally, which is a bit telling... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Calm down dude, its been years since I did one. I guess I miss spoke wrt bead vs sandblasting. |
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Posted: 1/11/2019 1:58:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Thanks fellas. I'll give them a call again and explain to them my issue and see what they say. At this point I'm ok with just living with it but if they want to take it back and strip it all and redo it I'll gladly allow them to.
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Posted: 1/11/2019 7:19:02 PM EDT
[#34]
I have never applied cerakote so I am in now way an expert so take my opinions and suggestions with a grain of salt.
Is this the area you are talking about? It definitely looks darker than the rest of the upper but it could be the lighting. 
I have contacted cerakote and asked for free samples of certain colors. You are allowed to order 5 free at a time through their website, I believe. When prompted for a business name I used “Mike’s Garage”
I would order a sample of the Burnt Bronze and hold it next to your upper and lower. Be reasonable because you can’t expect them to match perfectly but you will be able to see how off it is. If you are not satisfied then take the sample and your parts back to the guy and discuss options. Me personally, it would bug the ever loving shit out of me but I have a touch of OCD. I would ask for a re do or a refund. |
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Posted: 1/11/2019 10:56:06 PM EDT
[#35]
That is the area I’m referring to. There is also a couple of other spots just like that. The lower and rail look flat in color and the upper is a mix of flat and gloss plus looks a little darker than the rest.
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Posted: 1/11/2019 11:10:17 PM EDT
[#36]
I think it looks great. Better than my factory anodized FN set, and I love it.
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Posted: 1/11/2019 11:16:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calm down dude, its been years since I did one. I guess I miss spoke wrt bead vs sandblasting. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 9:30:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FWIW, the cerakote instructions used to call for removing the anodizing. They don't now. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 7:38:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Has the company been certified by Cerakote?
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Posted: 1/14/2019 11:44:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 Rough it up and spray. I remove it completely from the exterior and remove all but the very sharp corners inside. It will bond adequately to anodizing that hasn't been completely removed, but it does need to be blasted to some degree. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 9:04:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has the company been certified by Cerakote? |
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Posted: 1/18/2019 10:18:49 AM EDT
[#42]
I finally called and spoke to the owner of the gun shop and explained to him my issues. He was super nice and told me if I am not 100% satisfied with it to bring it back and he will take care of it. He did tell me that it should all look uniform and consistent and not be shinny in only certain spots.
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Posted: 1/20/2019 10:31:40 PM EDT
[#43]
I've been playing with Cerakote for a about 5 months now. I'm far from an expert, but even I could do a better job than that.
From a color standpoint, it's hard to judge from a photo as different monitors and white balance of cameras show color differently. However, I noticed the glossy part near the barrel threads right away. I personally would mix enough paint to do both parts so the colors would match identically. As long as the parts were sand blasted even close to same it should come out a lot better than that. I think in this case since you said there were areas of black showing, whoever sprayed wasn't the best man in the shop. If I did my own gun and it came out like that I would strip it and re-spray the entire thing all over again. Never the less someone else's gun. |
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