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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 9/14/2018 11:32:41 AM EST
Just curious if you can legally leave the country with privately owned gen 3 night vision? No intention to sell, just want some unique photos when I travel.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 11:37:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2018 11:38:24 AM EST by USSRangerSM]
From tnvc website ( I thought the last paragraph was kind of interesting)

Exportation of Night Vision Devices includes travel. This means you cannot take a night vision device with you if you leave the country. Just so we are clear, this means it cannot be taken out of the country by plane (checked or carry-on luggage), train, boat, or automobile. Doing so is in direct violation of ITAR and, again, you will go to a Federal Penitentiary. This includes all civilian and law enforcement personnel (in short, flashing a badge will only make you less popular at the Federal Penitentiary).

On the same note, it is a violation of ITAR to allow any non-U.S. citizen to look through U.S. Gen3 night vision equipment (even on US Soil). They are also not allowed to have access to any operator’s manuals or documentation, whatsoever, pertaining to US Gen 3 Night Vision Devices. This is a little-known fact about ITAR and Night Vision Devices, but it is true. We have confirmed this with the US State Department and major Night Vision Manufacturers. At TNVC, we take great care to ensure our clients are properly informed on laws and regulations pertaining to night vision.
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 11:45:47 AM EST
It's true.......

I travel back and forth to Hungary and I train a lot and it is not allowed.

I have signed up for permissions to use it for training overseas and it is always denied despite proper permits and training schools.

I don't blame them....

I have a Hensoldt Zeiss Orion gen 2 overseas but my gen 2+ PVS14 sure would be nice.



Hungary is a NATO country and all....
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 11:50:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USSRangerSM:
From tnvc website ( I thought the last paragraph was kind of interesting)

Exportation of Night Vision Devices includes travel. This means you cannot take a night vision device with you if you leave the country. Just so we are clear, this means it cannot be taken out of the country by plane (checked or carry-on luggage), train, boat, or automobile. Doing so is in direct violation of ITAR and, again, you will go to a Federal Penitentiary. This includes all civilian and law enforcement personnel (in short, flashing a badge will only make you less popular at the Federal Penitentiary).

On the same note, it is a violation of ITAR to allow any non-U.S. citizen to look through U.S. Gen3 night vision equipment (even on US Soil). They are also not allowed to have access to any operator’s manuals or documentation, whatsoever, pertaining to US Gen 3 Night Vision Devices. This is a little-known fact about ITAR and Night Vision Devices, but it is true. We have confirmed this with the US State Department and major Night Vision Manufacturers. At TNVC, we take great care to ensure our clients are properly informed on laws and regulations pertaining to night vision.
View Quote
Well that's a bummer... I guess I need to pick up an exportable Gen 2 tube for my travels.

Thanks for the info guys!
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 12:46:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2018 12:47:24 PM EST by N-VisionOptics]
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 12:49:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 1:32:08 PM EST
I will not take anything with me without proper documentation showing what I have is completely legal for export. But I will speak with a lawyer before however.
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 2:18:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 3:37:01 PM EST
I think best you’re gonna get is flying to Hawaii (I’ve dont that)
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 7:54:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2018 7:55:45 PM EST by cj7hawk]
Yes,

It is legally possible to travel to most parts of the world with Gen3 night vision.

However. it's also very expensive to be able to apply for all of the necessary permits to leave each and every country that you enter as most will have similar restrictions, and depending on the country, permits may not be granted.

So it's also completely impractical to do so, and you're going t have an interesting time with the PMDDTC who may or may not see your side of things, but they'll still take your money either way.

A good Gen1 tube is probably your best bet, though expect Customs in most countries to question why you're travelling with something most countries regard as military equipment.

David.
Link Posted: 9/14/2018 9:25:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USSRangerSM:
From tnvc website ( I thought the last paragraph was kind of interesting)

Exportation of Night Vision Devices includes travel. This means you cannot take a night vision device with you if you leave the country. Just so we are clear, this means it cannot be taken out of the country by plane (checked or carry-on luggage), train, boat, or automobile. Doing so is in direct violation of ITAR and, again, you will go to a Federal Penitentiary. This includes all civilian and law enforcement personnel (in short, flashing a badge will only make you less popular at the Federal Penitentiary).

On the same note, it is a violation of ITAR to allow any non-U.S. citizen to look through U.S. Gen3 night vision equipment (even on US Soil). They are also not allowed to have access to any operator's manuals or documentation, whatsoever, pertaining to US Gen 3 Night Vision Devices. This is a little-known fact about ITAR and Night Vision Devices, but it is true. We have confirmed this with the US State Department and major Night Vision Manufacturers. At TNVC, we take great care to ensure our clients are properly informed on laws and regulations pertaining to night vision.
View Quote
Which is utter bullshit since the .gov gave a MST of PVS-14s to the Iraqi Army.... who promptly abandoned them on the battlefield to be captured by ISIS and shared with their Iranian pals.
Link Posted: 9/15/2018 10:04:16 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mariner82:
...abandoned them on the battlefield to be captured by ISIS and shared with their Iranian pals.
View Quote
ISIS = Saudi Arabia
HaS (Hash'd al Shaabi) = Iran

HaS and the Kurds were the only effective units in turning ISIS held territory back into Iraqi territory.
Link Posted: 9/15/2018 1:02:17 PM EST
I bought 2 10160(?) devices off of eBay, and would not of known of ITAR if not for ARFCOM.

I also just bought the Sionyx Aurora color night camera which is supposed to be close to gen 2 . It can be taken out of the US so far.
Link Posted: 9/15/2018 2:19:14 PM EST
My .02. Gen 3 most likely no. However the real answer is You would need to know if the US Munitions List has man portable NV listed in different classifications for the different generations and... the classification of types of devices.

Hypothetically...Say...A gen 1 or 2 might be perfectly acceptable as a binocular or monocular. It would not be acceptable as a device with cross over to be mounted on a firearm. Most likely any NV with any firearm crossover capability in any way would be restricted.
Two potential classifications for the same item.. one the optics, one the device it self.

There is NV that leaves the country every day without license. It is commercial grade optics on ships and Private Yachts. So...a blanket statement that it is a no go might not hold up.
The difference being the units are not man portable...different classifications of devices !
ITAR is very complicated.
For the purposes of this discussion obviously man portable is the question. Maybe but most likely no is the answer. Ships and private yachts also sometimes have man portable NV binoculars. No one gets hassled.
We are full circle right back to classifications within ITAR mostly dealing with the device itself then the level of technology contained within that device.
Understanding ITAR is very complicated !

NV-clip ons, or any capability of mounting as an optic for sighting on any weapon would be a no.
Link Posted: 9/15/2018 3:46:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2018 3:46:48 PM EST by murtis]
Originally Posted By AZ2A:
Just curious if you can legally leave the country with privately owned gen 3 night vision? No intention to sell, just want some unique photos when I travel.

Thanks!
View Quote
Regarding the second part, wanting to take unique pics, you could do a IR conversion to your camera or purchase one for dedicated for that. For example, a Sony A7S or A7S II with the IR cut filter removed are quite impressive in low light assuming you have reasonably fast and good glass. Even without the modification you can shoot in moonlight, but by enabling NIR to reach the sensor gives it a considerable boost in image brightness and looks closer to what an image intensifier produces.

Especially with the older A7S Mark I model coupled with a fast (and good for NIR) lens you are in the same price range as used Gen3 and you should be able to do much of the photographing you would with a Gen3 camera. You could then go full ATN and crop it as a circle and switch the view to green =)
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 8:42:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2018 8:45:36 AM EST by draver]
I bought a cheap, eBay 940 nm zoomable ir flashlight to use with my new Sionyx. It is awesome for supplemental lighting, especially with the zoom option. I discovered that I can turn it on while facing down in my pocket and still get great illumination. Apparently my pants, bed covers, etc. doesn’t attenuate ir much, if at all. This might also hide the visible portion of 850 nm lighting. I’ve heard a faint glow is visible to the unaided eye with that wavelength. This 940 nm light cannot be seen at all from more than about 2 feet away staring straight into the beam.

I mention all this because I was wondering if a camera is modded to remove the ir filter, if an aux lamp like mine would work as well?
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 1:45:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2018 1:50:08 PM EST by murtis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By draver:

I mention all this because I was wondering if a camera is modded to remove the ir filter, if an aux lamp like mine would work as well?
View Quote
Yeah it would, very well so. Most camera sensors are surprisingly sensitive at longer wavelengths. Some cameras see NIR even with the inbuilt filter, but the A7 line has a good filter that effectively blocks all NIR wavelengths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c30u4Q1Wu64
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