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Posted: 4/19/2016 6:57:04 PM EDT
If I SBR a lower, I can still use it with barrels over 16" now and then, right?
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Posted: 4/19/2016 7:01:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes absolutely
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Posted: 4/19/2016 7:34:39 PM EDT
[#2]
FPNI/Thread
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Posted: 4/19/2016 7:47:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BigWaylon]
[#3]
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
If I SBR a lower, I can still use it with barrels over 16" now and then, right? Yes absolutely And at that point it's no longer an NFA item. You can sell it without a Form 4, travel interstate without a 5320.20, and hunt where SBRs aren't allowed. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:13:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
And at that point it's no longer an NFA item. You can sell it without a Form 4, travel interstate without a 5320.20, and hunt where SBRs aren't allowed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
If I SBR a lower, I can still use it with barrels over 16" now and then, right? Yes absolutely And at that point it's no longer an NFA item. You can sell it without a Form 4, travel interstate without a 5320.20, and hunt where SBRs aren't allowed. Are you sure? I was under the impression the lower was what matterwd, and even if you out a long barrel on it it was still a NFA item and subject to all the rules pertaining thereunto |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:16:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iamthesgt:
Are you sure? I was under the impression the lower was what matterwd, and even if you out a long barrel on it it was still a NFA item and subject to all the rules pertaining thereunto Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iamthesgt:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Originally Posted By bookertbab:
If I SBR a lower, I can still use it with barrels over 16" now and then, right? Yes absolutely And at that point it's no longer an NFA item. You can sell it without a Form 4, travel interstate without a 5320.20, and hunt where SBRs aren't allowed. Are you sure? I was under the impression the lower was what matterwd, and even if you out a long barrel on it it was still a NFA item and subject to all the rules pertaining thereunto Nope. If it's not in NFA configuration (and the short upper isn't readily available) then it's not an NFA item. The receiver is still registered, but you have the option to send the ATF a letter asking them to make a note that it's no longer in NFA configuration. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:26:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iamthesgt:
Are you sure? I was under the impression the lower was what matterwd, and even if you out a long barrel on it it was still a NFA item and subject to all the rules pertaining thereunto 100%. This exact question was hashed out not long ago...instead of repeating it, just go read it: SBR lower with 16" barrel. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2016 8:30:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
100%. This exact question was hashed out not long ago...instead of repeating it, just go read it: SBR lower with 16" barrel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By iamthesgt:
Are you sure? I was under the impression the lower was what matterwd, and even if you out a long barrel on it it was still a NFA item and subject to all the rules pertaining thereunto 100%. This exact question was hashed out not long ago...instead of repeating it, just go read it: SBR lower with 16" barrel. Thanks. Can you transport it in non NFA configuration, then reassemble it with a different short barrel? I suspect not, but just curious |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 8:57:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iamthesgt:
Thanks. Can you transport it in non NFA configuration, then reassemble it with a different short barrel? I suspect not, but just curious Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iamthesgt:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By iamthesgt:
Are you sure? I was under the impression the lower was what matterwd, and even if you out a long barrel on it it was still a NFA item and subject to all the rules pertaining thereunto 100%. This exact question was hashed out not long ago...instead of repeating it, just go read it: SBR lower with 16" barrel. Thanks. Can you transport it in non NFA configuration, then reassemble it with a different short barrel? I suspect not, but just curious Here is something I have wondered...hypothetical scenario, of course! Person transports legal, SBR-registered lower interstate between two NFA friendly states. Transports as non-SBR (with 16"+ upper). Does not file ATF 5320.20, as there is not a need to do so. At destination, there is a short AR upper, and only a short AR upper. No other AR parts whatsoever. SBR is constructed at that point. Have any laws been broken? If so, which ones? What if SBR was not constructed? Would constructive possession apply? What if lower was transported without upper at all, so ONLY AR parts at destination were SBR lower and short upper? What if upper at destination were at destination because it was shipped by and to owner of registered SBR lower? |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 9:00:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iamthesgt:
Thanks. Can you transport it in non NFA configuration, then reassemble it with a different short barrel? I suspect not, but just curious You cannot travel to a destination outside of the state it's registered in and have it in any SBR config without the approved 5320.20. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 9:07:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joekizanyu:
Here is something I have wondered...hypothetical scenario, of course! Person transports legal, SBR-registered lower interstate between two NFA friendly states. Transports as non-SBR (with 16"+ upper). Does not file ATF 5320.20, as there is not a need to do so. At destination, there is a short AR upper, and only a short AR upper. No other AR parts whatsoever. SBR is constructed at that point. Have any laws been broken? If so, which ones? What if SBR was not constructed? Would constructive possession apply? What if lower was transported without upper at all, so ONLY AR parts at destination were SBR lower and short upper? What if upper at destination were at destination because it was shipped by and to owner of registered SBR lower? I think all of those situations are covered in the answer I gave just above this post. You cannot travel to a destination outside of the registered state, and be in possession of an SBR, without the approved 5320.20...doesn't matter if the upper came with you or was already there. Having a short upper and a lower sitting next to each other, with no other use for each one, still results in having an SBR in the eyes of the ATF. (Yes, in a way, that goes against the previous "only an SBR when configured as an SBR" theory). The difference would be in not having any other use for those parts. The short upper on a pistol-configured lower and a long upper on the registered lower shouldn't raise any eyebrows. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 9:32:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: joekizanyu]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
I think all of those situations are covered in the answer I gave just above this post. You cannot travel to a destination outside of the registered state, and be in possession of an SBR, without the approved 5320.20...doesn't matter if the upper came with you or was already there. Having a short upper and a lower sitting next to each other, with no other use for each one, still results in having an SBR in the eyes of the ATF. (Yes, in a way, that goes against the previous "only an SBR when configured as an SBR" theory). The difference would be in not having any other use for those parts. The short upper on a pistol-configured lower and a long upper on the registered lower shouldn't raise any eyebrows. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By joekizanyu:
Here is something I have wondered...hypothetical scenario, of course! Person transports legal, SBR-registered lower interstate between two NFA friendly states. Transports as non-SBR (with 16"+ upper). Does not file ATF 5320.20, as there is not a need to do so. At destination, there is a short AR upper, and only a short AR upper. No other AR parts whatsoever. SBR is constructed at that point. Have any laws been broken? If so, which ones? What if SBR was not constructed? Would constructive possession apply? What if lower was transported without upper at all, so ONLY AR parts at destination were SBR lower and short upper? What if upper at destination were at destination because it was shipped by and to owner of registered SBR lower? I think all of those situations are covered in the answer I gave just above this post. You cannot travel to a destination outside of the registered state, and be in possession of an SBR, without the approved 5320.20...doesn't matter if the upper came with you or was already there. Having a short upper and a lower sitting next to each other, with no other use for each one, still results in having an SBR in the eyes of the ATF. (Yes, in a way, that goes against the previous "only an SBR when configured as an SBR" theory). The difference would be in not having any other use for those parts. The short upper on a pistol-configured lower and a long upper on the registered lower shouldn't raise any eyebrows. The crux of the question is: ATF Form 5320.20 (and 27 CFR 478.28) specifically only mention transport of SBRs. Mentions nothing of mere possession. In many of the scenarios in my hypothetical question, there is SBR possession and construction, but no interstate transport configured as an SBR. ETA: I think this oversight exists because, at the time NFA laws were drafted, modular firearms like the AR platform did not exist. So the scenarios postulated would not have been possible back then. Just like the requirement to notify ATF of "permanent" changes to SBRs. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2022 11:19:37 AM EDT
[#12]
I have a question
Is this a law passed by congress and signed the president or a regulation but in place by the BATF or other government agency? If the second part is true, how would the Supreme court ruling in West Virginia vs. EPA play in this? |
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Posted: 8/4/2022 3:26:19 PM EDT
[#13]
NFA was passed in 34. Nobody knows of the epa ruling will do anything for gun rights.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/6/2022 4:59:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigWaylon: You cannot travel to a destination outside of the state it's registered in and have it in any SBR config without the approved 5320.20. |
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Posted: 8/6/2022 6:42:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: What is the penalty for violating this? Is it a felony? You have paid your $200 and have an approved F4, so you don't have an illegal SBR. (a)It shall be unlawful ... (4)for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity; 18 U.S. Code 924 - Penalties (a) (1)Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, subsection (b), (c), (f), or (p) of this section, or in section 929, whoever ... (B)knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), or (q) of section 922; ... shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than five years, or both. |
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