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Posted: 7/16/2018 2:08:04 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't think one is better than the other.
cz is cheaper and you can buy more ammo. Mines never failed me that I can remember |
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Posted: 7/16/2018 3:15:51 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 7/16/2018 3:41:01 PM EDT
[#3]
I would say that the B&T is better.
That doesn't mean it's worth the money. Going to war? B&T. But otherwise 99.9% of people are never going to come to the limits of the CZ in any way that the B&T would make up for. |
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Posted: 7/16/2018 5:19:02 PM EDT
[#4]
B&T all things.
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Posted: 7/16/2018 5:25:19 PM EDT
[#5]
B&T APC9
MP5 Clone SIG MPX HK UMP B&T GHM9 EVO9 9mm AR SBR I own or owned everything on the list with the exception of the GHM9. But I've sold most of it, and selling the APC9, so what do I know!? |
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Posted: 7/16/2018 6:00:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Going to war? B&T. But otherwise 99.9% of people are never going to come to the limits of the CZ in any way that the B&T would make up for. |
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Posted: 7/16/2018 10:05:59 PM EDT
[#7]
It's going to be subjective. I can tell you that when you hold the ghm9, you feel like you're holding a firearm that cost twice as much. Absolute quality. The CZ is a workhorse, but it's not as well refined as the ghm9. Both should go bang every time.
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Posted: 7/17/2018 12:09:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Get the B&T, its more than worth the extra money
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Posted: 7/17/2018 1:27:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I have the P26, which I got for $999, I like it better than the Evo but not by much. I definitely like it better than the MPX, which I paid more money for.
All in All I think if I had a problem with any of the 3 I would feel more comfortable sending the EVO in for repair and getting it back fixed right the first time. I believe you can't sell a product good or bad and not back it up with a good customer service which I think CZ has the best of the three by far. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 3:10:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well the Evo has been around for some time now (2011-2012) and issued to a few not so peacefull countries.. |
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Posted: 7/17/2018 10:59:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
B&T APC9 MP5 Clone SIG MPX HK UMP B&T GHM9 EVO9 9mm AR SBR I own or owned everything on the list with the exception of the GHM9. But I've sold most of it, and selling the APC9, so what do I know!? |
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Posted: 7/18/2018 2:34:53 PM EDT
[#12]
B&T
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Posted: 7/18/2018 6:14:56 PM EDT
[#13]
I have a scorpion and I can objectively say the B&T is better. This is after HBI upgrades, Shooters element trigger polish, and other things. Nothing wrong with the CZ, but if you have the money get the B&T. I traded a Kriss vector for my CZ, and I still want a B&T. Functionally they both are blowbacks, but the B&T will be a more refined blowback.
Plus, Geissele makes a trigger for it. That is literally one of the reasons I want a B&T. If Geissele or ALG made a trigger for the CZ then I'd be happy. I am happy with the polish job by Shooters element, but I am very spoiled by my Geissele triggers. Have I said it enough yet? GET THE B&T |
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Posted: 7/24/2018 4:00:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Shot them all side by side, very hard to choose.... I like the PTR over the pack, B&T next (mainly do to looks) and scorpion and Kriss for the tie for third place....
B&T vs Scorpion vs Vector vs PTR |
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Posted: 7/24/2018 9:16:11 AM EDT
[#15]
I have an EVO with no complaints, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to pick up a B&T, too. Subgun based pistols are kinda like potato chips, it’s hard to stop at just a dozen.
My issue is that I haven’t found a B&T to check out in person. I suspect once that happens, one will quickly end up in the safe. |
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Posted: 9/4/2018 1:24:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryYou'll be happier with the B+T. The price gap isn't as significant, especially when you factor in the CZ OEM parts that I would replace. The magazines are worth $45 IMHO. I'm biased as I have been supporting B+T since DS ARMS imported my TP9 and before Thomet got busted! |
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Posted: 9/5/2018 12:59:51 PM EDT
[#17]
I am an absolute CZ fanboy and I want a GHM9. The CZ feels too toy-like and has harsh recoil for what it is.
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Posted: 9/5/2018 5:45:40 PM EDT
[#18]
B&T GHM9 is better fit and finish than the CZ. B&T is in a class by itself only comparable only to the older delayed roller blowback weapons of HK. That being said I love my CZ Scorpion EVO III. I just feel that quality wise B&T is superior.
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Posted: 9/6/2018 1:21:20 PM EDT
[#19]
I own both Evo 3 and GHM9.
Love both. Going to keep both. But they are VERY different in how they shoot. Really just the whole walk and talk of the two guns couldn't be more different. The CZ feels like a tool. Like a Casio Gshock watch. Yes it tells the time, yes it works. Yes it does all the things an Omega/Rolex does......BUT the omega/rolex just feels so nice. It's a finely crafted piece of functional art that also does the job of the Gshock, it just does it with style and class. Obviously Scorpion = Gshock and GHM9 = Rolex/Omega |
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Posted: 9/6/2018 7:49:43 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm going to sound like a snob for saying this, but, the Scorpion is sold to third world countries that can't afford better.
Now, who has adopted B+T SMGs? Countries that have money. I love my CZ-75B but the Evo was built to a price point for users that needed a modern SMG. The APC9 was built to be sold to users who had MP5s at the end of their service life. B+T made some serious cash, in relation to their size, doing MP5 rebuilds. They don't need to do that anymore. |
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Posted: 9/7/2018 3:08:11 PM EDT
[#21]
B&T all day, i didn't even know this was a comparison, almost like comparing a bmw to a honda? like somebody else said, evo feels like a toy compared to any B&T, and its recoil impulse is worse and if your going to suppress, well the B&T wins there too. Its hard to find them in person to check out first hand but B&T does it right, its an EVO killer all day long : ) and if somebody says otherwise well that tells me they haven't shot one and most definitely not held one! The swiss got cz beat here easily in my opinion and the extra money is well worth it... and with the new "pro" stuff coming next just solidifys my opinion even more, awesome features coming soon that are in the pipieline!
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Posted: 9/7/2018 3:12:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
B&T APC9 MP5 Clone SIG MPX HK UMP B&T GHM9 EVO9 9mm AR SBR I own or owned everything on the list with the exception of the GHM9. But I've sold most of it, and selling the APC9, so what do I know!? |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 7:49:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Is the B&T GHM9 really worth the extra money over the EVO 3? 80% of the time someone hands over a B&T anything, they repeat the mantra: "Feeeeeeel the Swiiiiiiiiiss QUAAAAALITY!!!" ...and I just don't see it. It's like emperor-has-no-clothes bonkers to me. I can visibly observe that the B&T guns are shinier and smoother finished, but it's still a dumb block bolt running inside an aluminum extrusion just like a Taurus SMT. I do not think there is much difference between the two in operation, and I prefer the ergos of the unmolested Scorpion. Both are rock solid performers. MP5 is still king, and Guard presents an interesting challenge- especially when you factor in LRBHO and Glock mags. We will see about this new delayed blowback Stribog. You asked if it was worth the extra money? Of course not. Even if CZ started paying assembly line monkeys wine-sipping-wages and let them take off half the year on vacation Scorpion would still be cheaper. Bottom line- a close call if money is no object, but once you bring in the cost delta you really have to be a "Swiiiiiiiiiss Quaaaaaality" guy (or at least be willing to repeat the mantra) to go B&T. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 11:10:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It all depends on what kind of guy you are. 80% of the time someone hands over a B&T anything, they repeat the mantra: "Feeeeeeel the Swiiiiiiiiiss QUAAAAALITY!!!" ...and I just don't see it. It's like emperor-has-no-clothes bonkers to me. I can visibly observe that the B&T guns are shinier and smoother finished, but it's still a dumb block bolt running inside an aluminum extrusion just like a Taurus SMT. I do not think there is much difference between the two in operation, and I prefer the ergos of the unmolested Scorpion. Both are rock solid performers. MP5 is still king, and Guard presents an interesting challenge- especially when you factor in LRBHO and Glock mags. We will see about this new delayed blowback Stribog. You asked if it was worth the extra money? Of course not. Even if CZ started paying assembly line monkeys wine-sipping-wages and let them take off half the year on vacation Scorpion would still be cheaper. Bottom line- a close call if money is no object, but once you bring in the cost delta you really have to be a "Swiiiiiiiiiss Quaaaaaality" guy (or at least be willing to repeat the mantra) to go B&T. Also I really don’t feel like the MP5 is the king. I’ve shot an MP5 both semi and on 3 round burst/full auto. On semi the smoothest of the three guns is the GHM9, no question. Of course on auto the MP5 is cool but that doesn’t mean it’s a smoother shooter than the GHM9, because it definitely isn’t. I’m not biased, I truly don’t give a shit about which gun is better. I own 2 scorpions, so it’s not like I’m biased against them. I also own 2 GHM9’s. I buy what I like and I like both of them. With that said, there is no denying that the GHM9 is a superior product in both finish and actual shooting. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 12:38:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve shot an MP5 both semi and on 3 round burst/full auto. On semi the smoothest of the three guns is the GHM9, no question. GHM-9 and the Scorpion are both dumb blowback guns- i.e. brick in a shoebox. Nothing is as smooth as DRBB- not even radial delayed. (DRBB is also the most maintenance intensive) |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 2:16:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've shot all three also... and that's just not true. GHM-9 and the Scorpion are both dumb blowback guns- i.e. brick in a shoebox. Nothing is as smooth as DRBB- not even radial delayed. (DRBB is also the most maintenance intensive) Compared to the scorpion however it’s a no brained. The “Swiss quality” part of it is true, however you could drop the Swiss and just say it’s quality. You can’t shoot one without realizing instantly that it’s a different class of gun. |
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Posted: 9/8/2018 2:43:30 PM EDT
[#27]
It’s no comparison, it’s 2 different price points which really makes it unfair. A bare bones Scorpion pistol is a closer comparison to a Stribog. Regardless of opinions, B&T’s are of superior quality and have no problems selling at their price point. I will admit B&T backup sights are an after thought but it ends there, the guns are obviously intended to be run with optics. Other than that, there’s not another PCC at their price point that compares IMO.
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Posted: 9/9/2018 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s no comparison, it’s 2 different price points which really makes it unfair. A bare bones Scorpion pistol is a closer comparison to a Stribog. Regardless of opinions, B&T’s are of superior quality and have no problems selling at their price point. I will admit B&T backup sights are an after thought but it ends there, the guns are obviously intended to be run with optics. Other than that, there’s not another PCC at their price point that compares IMO. But, when Aimpoint works with you on developing two RDS, you only need emergency sights. It's a shame B+T doesn't sell the micro aimpoint bundle separately like what the offer with their factory bundles. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 5:14:42 PM EDT
[#29]
OP, this is really all you need to know, courtesy of CrimsonTide: “You can’t shoot one without realizing instantly that it’s a different class of gun.”
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Posted: 10/4/2018 8:54:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to sound like a snob for saying this, but, the Scorpion is sold to third world countries that can't afford better. Now, who has adopted B+T SMGs? Countries that have money. I love my CZ-75B but the Evo was built to a price point for users that needed a modern SMG. The APC9 was built to be sold to users who had MP5s at the end of their service life. B+T made some serious cash, in relation to their size, doing MP5 rebuilds. They don't need to do that anymore. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 10/4/2018 11:18:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Sample size of exactly ONE here, but my Scorpion has been more reliable than either my MP5 or the TP9 I USED to own
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Posted: 10/19/2018 6:07:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Reciprocating charging handles are gross.
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Posted: 1/18/2019 3:44:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
B&T APC9 MP5 Clone SIG MPX HK UMP B&T GHM9 EVO9 9mm AR SBR I own or owned everything on the list with the exception of the GHM9. But I've sold most of it, and selling the APC9, so what do I know!? |
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Posted: 1/19/2019 5:46:35 AM EDT
[#34]
We did a little shooting over the holidays when I was home. CZ Scorpion, GHM9, and the MPX K (4.5" bbl); all with braces of course. If comparing fit and finish, ranking would go GHM9, MPX, and then CZ. For range drills, the MPX was more intuitive followed by the GHM9 and CZ. All were flawless, all were fun. If I had to choose one, it would be the MPX. Between the CZ and GHM9, the GHM9. I have the H&B mirco kit sitting at home, so my CZ will get a facelift. I still like the CZ and for the price point, it's the best of the three; there are also more mods available for the CZ. For magazine comparison, I'm really disappointed in B&T. Yes, they work and I had no issues, but they feel like flimsy plastic. MPX mags were the top of the pack, and the new CZ magazines were a step behind.
Again, tough choices, fortunately I don't need to choose between the three 
ROCK6 |
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Posted: 1/19/2019 11:41:36 AM EDT
[#35]
broken record post
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Posted: 1/19/2019 11:44:59 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s no comparison, it’s 2 different price points which really makes it unfair. A bare bones Scorpion pistol is a closer comparison to a Stribog. Regardless of opinions, B&T’s are of superior quality and have no problems selling at their price point. I will admit B&T backup sights are an after thought but it ends there, the guns are obviously intended to be run with optics. Other than that, there’s not another PCC at their price point that compares IMO. |
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Posted: 1/19/2019 11:49:18 AM EDT
[#37]
EDIT: I didn't remember saying the exact-same-thing in this thread
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Posted: 1/19/2019 11:13:34 PM EDT
[#38]
My family and I have a lot of trigger time behind an HK94 and Zenith Z-5RS. Picked up an APC9 when they were first imported into the US and after shooting all three back to back on multiple range sessions...the MP5 family of roller-delayed blowbacks are softer shooting, though not by much.
Everything else though is all APC9. Better ergos, much better trigger, finishing is nicer, runs all ammo we've put through it to include HPs and oddball rounds and we all run it faster than the HK and Zenith. If I had to gripe about something, it would be the reciprocating CH and the mags do feel flimsy, but we have had zero issues with the APC9. The Stribog A3 version with delayed blowback (if they ever import them) and the APC9 Pro are on our watch list. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 2:23:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think one is better than the other. cz is cheaper and you can buy more ammo. Mines never failed me that I can remember |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 2:44:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It all depends on what kind of guy you are. 80% of the time someone hands over a B&T anything, they repeat the mantra: "Feeeeeeel the Swiiiiiiiiiss QUAAAAALITY!!!" ...and I just don't see it. It's like emperor-has-no-clothes bonkers to me. Bottom line- a close call if money is no object, but once you bring in the cost delta you really have to be a "Swiiiiiiiiiss Quaaaaaality" guy (or at least be willing to repeat the mantra) to go B&T. But "built nicer" doesn't necessarily translate to more effective; it's not like centerfire rifles where you're going to see a practical accuracy difference out at 300, 400 yards; they're still 9mm's and that's the real limiting factor on your ability to hit stuff. The B&T's should last longer and the mags are way, way better. Which 9mm PCC platform you get really comes down to budget and how many of them you need. My main complaint with the EVO is that the rail isn't very well configured for mounting any sort of modern first world accessories. Otherwise it just works. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 11:19:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a pile of Scorpions and I will be the first to insist that the B&T's are not just nicer guns, they're as much nicer as the price tag implies. But "built nicer" doesn't necessarily translate to more effective; it's not like centerfire rifles where you're going to see a practical accuracy difference out at 300, 400 yards; they're still 9mm's and that's the real limiting factor on your ability to hit stuff. The B&T's should last longer and the mags are way, way better. Which 9mm PCC platform you get really comes down to budget and how many of them you need. My main complaint with the EVO is that the rail isn't very well configured for mounting any sort of modern first world accessories. Otherwise it just works. ROCK6 |
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