I'd like to get a bolt action .22lr for my 7 year old and a similar one for myself to teach him on and go to an Appleseed shoot.  

I'm torn between the CZ 457, get him the Scout and me one of the bigger ones and the Ruger American Rimfire.

I definitely want threaded barrels and iron sights for at least the kids one.

What say you all?

CZ all day!

CZ 457 Scout all day!!!!

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Ruger because they use any 10/22 pattern mags.

Tough call on that one. The ARFCOM answer is ‘both’.

The Ruger American Rimfire is a fine shooting rifle. The stock is modular for LOP and comb height, which a great feature for growing shooters. If shooting with Tech-Sights or optic, you will want the higher comb. I qualified Rifleman fairly easily with a RAR w/ tech sights. The bolt is easy to work, but it’s not ideal for a new shooter trying to focus on fundamentals. Breaking cheek weld to manipulate the bolt while trying to maintain a rifleman’s cadence again the clock will be frustrating.

10/22 is much better suited for Appleseed. The course of fire is designed around the Garand qualification table as the manual of arms are similar. Again, if setting up a 10/22 as a “Liberty Training Rifle” with Tech Sights, you will want a model with a higher comb than the standard carbine. Magazine compatibility/interchangeability is very convenient.

CZ is really in another class. If you’re a buy-once-cry-once type, by all means go for it. A semi is really better for Appleseed, especially for a new shooter.

Appleseed - means lots of shooting.  Means learning to use a sling, a GI style sling, to help you build a more stable shooting position.

With a semi-auto you only break your shooting position during magazine changes or when transitioning from one target to the next during the last three stages.  With a bolt action your cheek is coming off the stock and shooting hand off the stock every shot to work that bolt.

Can it be done?  Oh yeah.  Used to be a guy that came to the Appleseeds at Ramseur with a Savage bolt action .22.  He was so quick he'd finish his 10 shots and then be coaching one of his buddies as they finished up there stage and he shot rifleman scores at both of the Appleseeds I saw him at.

Practice, practice, practice.

And, CZ.  I have a Ruger 10/22 and with the sling and Tech Sights it gets the job done at Appleseeds.  But for beauty and accuracy I'd have to buy a CZ.  I've seen some really nice looking CZs at gun shows but I don't hunt anymore and have no need of buying another gun I won't be shooting much.

#1 reason right here.

My RAR is a fine rifle as well. Not as accurate as the CZs it’s shot next to, but perfectly capable of appleseed and small game hunting.

I have a CZ 452 Scout. It is super accurate with Euro standard speed stuff. The 457 should be a bit better, with a better trigger.

I didn't realize a bolt action would be a problem for Appleseed.

Maybe I'll have to get a 10/22 Takedown w/ Tech Sights and a CZ 457 with maybe a 4x or 3-9x scope?  Would that be a good training combo?  I have 3 boys and a girl to teach to shoot.  The oldest is 7, these will get some use.  I guess if I get a 10/22, the Ruger American Rimfire may be the way to go....  Choices

The problem with the 10/22  TD is you can change point of impact just by using different sling tension from position to position.

I'd suggest a good 10/22 with either a std. weight barrel or even a LW barrel for a younger shooter, in a solid stock that has an adjustable length of pull.

That makes sense.  I've spent thousands on 10/22s before, tricking them out with Kidd/VQ and other stuff but don't even own one right now.  Probably about time to pick one up again.

Does anybody know of a Ruger 10/22 non-takedown with factory irons (so I can install tech sights) and a threaded barrel???

All I could find like that were some special editions.

I've been to two Appleseeds. Have not made rifleman yet . . .

Anyway, at both shoots I went to, somebody got their patch with a bolt gun. We were all VERY impressed.

You'll be making it harder on yourself and Junior if you bring bolt guns. You'll impress everyone there if you pull it off, but the odds are against you.

It's a great problem by the way.

The 10-22 is prob the perfect rifle for Appleseed

TLDR

I got the rifleman badge using a Savage Mark II FV-SR at my first Appleseed, although I did use a scope.  Go with whatever feels good to you and makes you happy, particularly if you work on having solid fundamentals and getting the most out of the course.  I will admit that using a bolt action rifle made it a lot more work, but I think it's worthwhile. The instructors and the course are great, even if there are a few flaws, and well worth the money invested.

We got the CZ scout.  We haven't shot it yet, but it looks like a very well made rifle.  It came with a test target from the factory.  Mags are stupidly expensive, and it came with only a single shot adapter.  I've got no regrets so far.  The rear sights are set far forwards so I've got no problem aiming the thing despite the short stock.

Mags are my only regret for my scout.  Great rifle except expensive mags that currently cannot be found.

DLM1984, the first place I saw a guy shoot rifleman with a Savage bolt action was at an early Appleseed not far out of Philadelphia in about 2004 or 2005 (maybe 2006 - been a few years).  It was about the 3rd Appleseed I instructed at after the RBC I attended at Ramseur.

The second time I saw (the same guy) shoot rifleman with a Savage bolt action was at Ramseur a year or two later.

Are you "that guy?"

If so, I was impressed by your speed and the way you spent your time after completely the stage of fire helping the guys shooting beside you.

Have a good one, either way.

Is the appleseed rapid fire the same as a high power? 60 seconds, mag of 2 mag of 8?

I didn’t have any issue doing it with a mosin and loose ammo for my second 5. 10/22 mags should be a breeze.

With that many kids to teach, the 10/22 makes the most sense to me.  Spare parts and mags are plentiful and relatively cheap.  Improved parts are also readily available.  You'll probably end up with several so having the same platform will be helpful.  As the older ones get better, they can customize their own rifle with better triggers, mag release, barrels, sights/optic, and stocks without breaking the bank.  The older ones can help teach the younger ones easier if they're all using the same platform.  Tons of shooters have earned their Appleseed rifleman patch with 10/22's and many with loaner rifles.

Well now I'm torn on whether to go down the 10/22 route or the Thompson Center TCR22 route.  The TCR has a threaded barrel and good sights already as well as a few more features.

id say the TCR , only cuz ive got like 4 rugers. lol

The Wild camo edition is the one that seems currently available, comes threaded and not takedown.  They had them on gunbroker.  Anything threaded is difficult to find and expensive now.

My twins have been through 3 Appleseeds (in consecutive years) with stock Ruger 10/22 anniversary model:

First one @ 11 years old; Stock guns. Wind was so bad both days, they spent more time repairing the target line than shooting. Decided to shoot for only a couple of hours on D2 before leaving. The hook was set. They used the nylon GI slings from the AS store, kids were "meh" about it. The mini14 sights on the Anni model are shit. Ruger should be flogged for putting them on any rifle.

Second @ 12yo: Now it's Momma & twins. Added Tech-Sites to each gun and some major score improvements were made. Kids came close but no Rm patch. The boy was ecstatic after understanding the rifleman's cadence and checking his shot group downrange. Light bulb moment for him. All rifles are now running Magpul RLS. Kids really appreciated the simplicity of that design, less time in "preparation period" slinging up and more time finding initial NPoA. Cadre kind of frowned at it but it works better than the GI sling imo.

Third@13yo: Everyone now has optics (2 with parallax adjustment, one w/o). Daughter scored 214 on her best AQT and was one of 3 people and the only junior to patch. Mom & boy were so close, "we'll get it next time!" Still running the RLS.

The guns were all similarly modified: bolt quick release & extended mag release lever. Added the high cheek rise module to the stock once they went to glass. Now the boy has the full size component because he outgrew the compact size.

In retrospect, I think getting the Ruger BX trigger in all their guns should have been the first improvement. Before the 3d AS, I gave them the option of rattle-canning their guns.

top Momma Bear;
upgraded to Athlon NEOS 4-12 w side focus

middle: Brother bear
He gets mom's Hawke 3-9 w AO

bottom: Sister bear
Running my old Vortex 2-7 that I scored RM with.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Narx8Jj


IMHO, running a bolt @7 for a first AS isn't going to be very productive. There is a lot of technical information to process and unless the kid is a giant for his age, constantly reacquiring his cheek-weld will burn up valuable time.

A standard generic 10/22 with Tech sites would be ideal to begin with. I'd save the CZ for reward incentive after he scores Expert.
ymmv

I have a CZ452 military trainer, and love, love, love shooting it with those gorgeous tangent irons.  Friends say I'm "cheating" when I pull it out in informal shooting competition.

That being said, from my limited knowledge about Appleseed, I would imagine an aperture sighted semi auto would work better for the first time, so that you aren't left behind or frustrated on the firing line.

The one I would likely use (and hope to when life settles down a bit) is my 10/22 with the NoDak rear aperture and GI tech front, with a nice Montana sling (decent easy adjustments).  Pic below:


From reading the above, I should probably get the BX25 tigger first, though.  Good to know.

nevermind

Unfortunately, I can't claim to be THAT guy. I only got serious about shooting fundamentals and then competitive shooting in the past couple years. I still have a long way to go!

I drove to CT to shoot with a number of other arfcommers that I frequently chatted with on here and other platforms.

I wouldn't be surprised if I (unknowingly) cross paths with him at some point, we're likely in the general area.

And same to you!

I have and like them both. If I could only pick one today the TCR gets the nod. Dunhams has had them in stock recently but they are not cheap. Either option will serve you and your kids well at an Appleseed. If you can't get one squared away before the event ask the instructors if they have a loaner rifle available, they almost always have a couple available.

I picked up 2 tcr’s for my sons and I’m so impressed with them.  Great improvement over the oem 10/22 and super accurate and reliable.  I’m 100% happy with those purchases.