From January until March or so, I was participating at the monthly CMP match with my M1 Garand which was a rebarreled Krieger GI contour barrel on a 1942 Winchester receiver. It's a mix master Service grade that I got back in 2005 after I got back from Iraq.

Here is the deal and I'm just wondering if its just me.

I seem to do pretty awesome in the standing portion of the match with no help whatsoever.



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The other portions I'm ok but the standing slow fire, I have been doing incredibly well with it.

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Ammo is greek surplus HX8 whatever.

The match director has said consistently that some people just shoot well standing and then shoot to crap on the prone and other setups in the match.

There is a USMC shooter who does well with his M14 but even he told me I am doing incredibly well with the standing portion.

Last match was 1x but the previous matches were 2x and 3x sometimes.

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Coming home and kinda thinking about it, I'm wondering if the reason is because of the ammo I keep in the buttstock that I got from olopongo and also that I keep the full cleaning kit in the buttstock also.

https://olongapooutfitters.com/equipment-and-gear/grand-stock-pouch/

Can anyone explain to me or does anyone else have that experience shooting their m1 garand and they do incredibly well on a specific stance of it and does poorly on another?

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Get rid of the junk HXP and get some quality ammo.



Good ammo is what you need at this point

While not 168 or 175 SMK, HXP would hold the ten ring for me.   The HXP always shot better than the LC I could get from CMP.   The HXP brass loaded better too.  Reloaded I’d use 155 Noslers or 168 SMKs.   For 200 yard walk and paste matches the ammo wasn’t the handicap.  at least no on SR or SR1 targets.   Also assuming it’s not mixed lot cans of  HXP leftovers.  All my crates of HXP were virgin spam cans of boxed or bando’d types.


I will say my offhand was always better during the times I was a regular at the gym for all the good things it does for you, toned muscles, endurance, stress relief.  Let work get in the way and become soft and performance was not as good.   Not that your muscling the gun in a properly built position, you just are fit and healthier.


I shot once with the state team guys at their main club in their club’s vintage match.   I did abnormally well for me offhand.  I think I only dropped two points on that stage.  They were trying to convince me to come south more often.  Unfortunately I worked most weekends at the time.  I tried to explain my offhand that day was a fluke, my normal is more awful hand than off hand.


I cannot say why it does poorly for you at the other positions but for me in offhand the Garand just hangs perfectly.  I have HBar Ar’s with lead in the butt and medium and service weight barreled M1a rifles.  The M1a rifles lack the front weight (for me) to hang as nice in off hand.  I love the M14 pattern rifles but I always say the Garand just hangs better.

If the gun will X ring your ammo then I'd not start with an upgrade to it.   But if it won't the ammo could be a variable.    

Are you slinging up, stabilizing points of contact and getting a solid position prone?   That's where I'd start based on your OP.  

Also, since this is a like game, Are the prone distances farther?    Again, ammo variable.

Good point.   I went through Parris Island in the 80’s.   It was all DCM type rifle quals on the KD course.  Very similar other than yardages varied and varied by post.  Boot camp gave solid position training and use of a shooting sling.  I was later in the guard.  The average Army Joe does not get that same training and it shows on the range.  If they did, they sure didn’t recall the training on the range.  The guard was all foxhole shooting which has its own merits but to me that was step 2 and they skipped step 1 basic rifle marksmanship.  Granted no one slings up in a combat zone.

There are plenty of books on developing your positions, also youtube videos I bet.  A clinic before a match is not wasted time either.  An experienced coach can look at you and see that you need to modify a position to suit your physical build.   Very tall people and very short people make adaptations to suit.

Not sure why you put the face there.  Anyone who thinks HXP is "quality match" ammo needs to shoot some GOOD ammo.

Get rid of the mediocre ball ammo and load some real match ammo THEN analyze the issues...is it the gun or the nut behind the trigger.

I would take the crap off the gun.

It isn’t match ammo but it will hold the ten ring with a good amount of X’s  200 yards and under.  If the garand is match conditioned with bedding then yea you’re stepping up to match ammo.  A Kreiger barrel can utilize match ammo to good effect.  

Service grade ammo that holds the ten ring is enough to assess position issues at the shorter ranges.  A full distance course match then yea shoot the match ammo.

Just my opinion.   I have a lot of SR1 test targets with various condition garands with HXP in the drawer.  I don’t save the SR targets other than pasting them and shooting them again.  None of my 9 or so garands have an aftermarket barrel.  My better shooters are service grade with near new SA, HRA and LMR barrels and decent unshrunk stocks, only one in a DGR, none with any bedding.  They can pound the ten ring with a high percentage of x counts.   They do shoot the match bullets better but either match or good service grade ammo is more than enough to work on the shooter’s positions.  The LC machine gun ammo that was reboxed by Talon in CMP cardboard boxes will leave a lot more points on the table.

I scale the ammo investment to the purpose.   I used to want to shoot just the match ammo.   I just don’t see the need to do it all of the time.   If the OPs offhand is better than his position shooting then the biggest need is the position development at this point in time.  The extra expense of match ammo is kind of a waste for the moment.  One could certainly develop a reload with match bullets on the side, off the bench or prone with a little sandbag help under the slung up forearm.

Just my opinion, I guess.  I am frugal!

OP needs position work it sounds like.  Possible sling tension/ gun fit issue consistency.   If all that was done to the rifle is replace the barrel and the stock fit is loosely goosey then that match barrel is of limited utility.   It’d be worth going through the stock fit and clamp up.  Op rod not touching the forend, the ferrule not skewed, the rear handguard not wedged on the barrel.  (I had that once with an oversized greek beech wood part and a hot barrel would move the group, once I sanded a clearance between the barrel and the handguard the drift stopped.  Greek replacement wood is kind of a sick joke.  Sometimes you can salvage it if there is enough meat to work down and fit.  Not always the case though. The other time I had wood fit issues was with the DGR set, the front handguard tenon needed work as assembled there wasn’t quite enough clearance fore and aft with the gas cylinder lock in place.  I thought I had it adjusted enough until I shot it.  Nope, took the tenon shoulder back some more.  

I am not telling you anything you don’t already know but the OP is learning the gun and the game.

The ammo butt bag may not even be match legal.  No one cared in local matches where I shot.  iIt was more get the old gals out of the back of the safe and shoot events.

The cleaning kit or a lead bar in the butt trap is fine though.  All mine have a kit in them.  No lead in my garands except in the magazines.

Sometimes a session on the bench is warranted.  Shoot the rifle off the bench with sandbags with the HXP.  Then with some match ammo.  If nothing else other than replacing the barrel was done there may not be much or any difference.  

In a good gun I agree match>HXP>Lake city ball.

No sense not benching it with the ammo on hand.  Pounding the black on a SR1 should be child’s play off the bench with HXP in my experience.   If it’ll hold the ten ring with an ok x count that’s not bad for a service grade gun in an unfitted or bedded stock in my experience.   From there do the same thing slung up prone.  It should be awful close to the benched.

All of us have our quirks with different positions, but it really comes down to repetition and practice.  I found that shooting smallbore prone matches really helped with shooting centerfire.  Standing offhand needs a good position with solid natural point of aim.

CMP's Garand matches take place at 200 yards, so fundamentals matter more than ammo selection.

Thanks for all of the advise and suggestions.

This is just a local CMP match and nothing big. I don't do the bigger match after the end of the CMP one because I don't think I am good yet.

My average has been 230 to 250 with usually 4 to 5 x sometimes.

I'm learning but I don't want to get into the whole thing, just something fun and enjoyable while trying to keep the garand stock as possible.

The match director said the ammo pouch is kinda legal but he said what others have done was use the leather pad and then attach clips to the right side of it.

The ammo pouch is a good substitute.

You may or may not be able to use your AR rifle positions well with the .30 cals.  The recoil may knock you out of your position shot to shot.  You may have to adapt your position to one that won’t get shaken out of.  Consistency is key from shot to shot.  You don’t want to have to rebuild your position between shots.  

Once you get a position that works on the range it’s a good idea to get in to those positions and dry fire.  Build the muscle memory, test new things out on practice sessions.   Don’t be afraid of change.  I have had to change from my standard position because my firing point had a bit of downslope to the front.  Crossed ankle wouldn’t elevate enough supported.   Had to use open legs and raise my knees up to get a natural point of aim on target.  So having tried different things can come in useful later.

Listen up.

In more than fifty .30-06 Garands, this is the best load:

150 grain Nosler ballistic tip, 48.0 grains of IMR-4895 and CCI large rifle primers.

(47 grains of IMR 4895 is a very common well recommended load, but I find that one grain more works better for me)

The Nosler ballistic tip outshoots the 155 grain Sierra Match King and you should try it.

Shooting a M1 rifle in matches, the sling is tighter in sitting and prone and buttstock lower in my shoulder for offhand, when compared to an AR. All other fundamentals are the same.

While HXP is decent surplus ammo, it is not super accurate and can be a little harder recoiling. The precision of the HXP ammo is not holding you back. Managing the recoil may be causing some issue. The biggest thing I have done to manage the higher recoil, besides tighter sling, is go to lighter recoiling round. I am loading 125 Speer TNT over medium 150 gr bullet charges. I currently load 48.0 gr IMR-4895. I learned to use the 125 Speer TNT from a guy that used them to win the Springfield match at nationals. When I tested them against other match bullets they were the same or better precision. My personal best scores at 100 and 200 yard matches have all been using the TNT’s.

You can’t use anything for a cheek rest at registered matches. Local gun matches people likely will not care.

When I first started shooting high power in 1984 I was frustrated with my scores. I would practice at 25 meters and blow the center out of the 1000 inch zeroing target, at 200 yards I could just hold the 9 ring, leaking 8's on occasion. Then I discovered Sierra's 168 grain Match King bullets. I gained 40 points, on average by switching to match grade bullets.

I went from shooting 425/430 each match to shooting 465/475 each match. I fired a 489/500 in 1989, my personal best. My personal best offhand score was a 97 and it was fired with a Garand. I can't recall the X count. Offhand has always been my weakest stage, with me usually shooting around 90 +/- a couple points.

Some rifles will actually shoot ball ammo reasonably well, but I have never owned one myself. Ammo quality has been critical for me to get good scores in competition. I never crimp match bullets; I use at least .003" to no more than .004" of neck tension to hold match bullets in place. You can achieve this buy spin polishing your expander button with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Measure your case neck prior to seating a bullet, then again after the bullet is installed. The difference is your neck tension.

46.0 grains of H4895 or IMR-4895 was universally accepted as a great .30-06 M1 Garand load when I started shooting high power with 168's. IMO, it still works as well as anything.

The 125 grain Speer TNT is used by many people, now and then, for the offhand and rapid sitting stages. Spraying your shooting jacket, pistol grip and shooting glove with a mild adhesive helps when dealing with recoil. Creedmoor Sports probably still sells it. Match grade M14's/M1-A's/M1 Garands on the line were covered with accumulated goop on the butt plate, pistol grip and fore stock. Competitors would place their rifle sights down so the sun would warm the goop and make it sticky.

Around 1993/1994 the AR-15 took over and none of this was needed to manage recoil with the new platform.

M1 Pros-in-the-Know who handload are using Varget. While 4895 is a great propellant, it’s Old School and more temperature sensitive than Varget.

Hornady’s M1 reloading data lists Varget as the most accurate powder although the specified grain levels in their Service Rifle manual are very conservative.


Typically 46-48grns of Varget seems to be the ‘sweet spot.’

110s and 125s over 4895 have won Garand matches at Camp Perry more than once.  They sure shoot easier on rapids than 168s, though I shoot those pretty often, too.  

I find it easier to establish good positions with the Garand than with an AR.  I use an overglove offhand to get my elevation right with an AR, and the top shooters also use various strategies to get the front end up for offhand.  They don't have to with the M1.  Prone is much more stable than it should be despite the 30-06 recoil of the M1, as compared to the AR.  My point is just that despite the shortcomings of Garands compared to ARs, the stock configuration does lend itself to good position for a lot of people.

The last match, my prone rapid and slow improved a bit and I guess it was all about working the position some more.

I didn't want to jinx my standing so I went back to doing what I did before and I tightened the group some more for standing slow.

I stayed with HXP because the local match director was offering 40 rounds for $10 bucks plus the match fee of $3 bucks. I opted to stay with it.


I've removed the ammo pouch and went with a canvas sling instead of the leather sling my uncle gave me from his M1 Garand.

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They invited me to try the bigger match but I opted not to do it instead I went to monthly sub machine gun match that started at 10am.

Lage m11 for the win.

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Oh yeah, I came in 2nd place only being beaten by a 13 year old girl with a stock M1 Carbine for the CMP M1 Garand match. She had plenty of rifle range supplied M1 Carbine ammo. Last told the match director said they still have over 5k rounds of M1 Carbine ammo for CMP matches.

125 TNT does work really well at 100-200yd, accurate and low recoil.

Have had good luck with Hornady 125 FMJ also but they cost more than TNTs

At that short range temp sense powder is pretty irrelevant. Varget is great but 4895 gets it done cheaper.

I shoot 49 gr IMR 4895, 125 TNT, WLR, LC case.

GI M2 152 FMJ bullets aren't exactly the greatest but will do ok at 100.

Yea the USGI ammo is the least accurate I have tried.  A bit better using virgin surplus USGI bullets in my own careful loads.   Then again the USGI stuff I bought tons of was that machine gun ammo that was de linked and boxed for the CMP.  The HXP I bought was half boxed and half bandoleers and clipped.  

The HXP was the best of the surplus ammo that I got, not counting any AP ammo.

The speer 125 TNTs were quite good.  I’d use them again.