Sarah Sanders said today Trump is against bump stocks, and DOJ completed their review. She said they expect a public response in "days".

I am going with a complete ban, similar to Akins Accelerator. No amnesty. no buyback, no grandfathering.

eta

President Trump signs memo directing Sessions to take action on bump stocks
From CNN's Kevin Liptak

President Trump said he has directed Attorney General Jeff Sessions to propose changes that would ban so-called "bump stocks," which make it easier to fire rounds quicker.

"Just a few moments ago I signed a memo directing the attorney general to propose regulations that ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," Trump said at a Medal of Valor event at the White House.

"I expect these regulations to be finalized, Jeff, very soon," Trump said.

I would bet 100 bucks that you're wrong, but then I'm not a "gambin" man.

I just don't see anyway the technology branch could do it.  But they have given me new visions in the past so it would not totally surprise me.  It would continue to erode my faith in the scientific method, as applied by Martinsburg.

$100 I would love to lose, but the way she said it in response to the question "Nothing has been done about bump stocks", sure did not sound like "we are going to do nothing".

I guess it is nearer than I thought.

FOXNEWS reporting Trump just signed a memo BANNING Bump Stocks.

Will Trump ban Shoestrings next?



BIGGER_HAMMER

No, he did not.  He pushed it back on the ATF.

http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/37550185/full-presidential-memorandum-on-bump-fire-stocks

Huh?

Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.

and

Just a few moments ago I signed a memo directing the attorney general to propose regulations that ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns," Trump said at a Medal of Valor event at the White House.

It has not taken effect yet, but it is pretty much a done deal at this point.

Reading the memo it seems pretty obvious that he has directed the ATF to find that bump stocks are machine gun conversion devices and therefore illegal machineguns in their own right.

So since bump stocks do not in fact turn legal weapons into machineguns can we assume this means absolutely nothing?

Yeah, I know, wishful thinking.

The president can’t just ban things like that.

BAN DRILL BITS!!1!1!1!!!

And that will be fought in court after they are declared illegal.

Unfortunately, the courts aren't very 2A friendly.

Actually he wrote a memo that he knows will do nothing but allow him to say he wrote a memo.

The only way a bump stock can be banned is through congressional legislation.

"A single function of the trigger, is just too obvious."  A bump stock requires one function of the trigger for each round fired. It is NOT a machine gun.

(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person

Akins Accelerator, how quickly we forget.

I’m thinking that’s his angle as well. Still, I fully expect a panic to be in full swing by tomorrow.

You have the hard fight to now go fight your state lawmakers who are blind to all this.

That wasn’t the same thing.

it is in their mind - finger bouncing off trigger for each shot.

I’m tired of the winning.

The original theory/ ruling being that the Atkins, the spring was performing the action for you, while slide stocks you're pulling it forward manually.

Who knows what they'll do now.

I wonder if "all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns" would include spare parts for Title 2 guns because they could be diverted towards illegal conversions.

Can someone tell me what actually happened with the previous "assault rifle" ban and if people were grandfathered for those 10 years, could resell, etc? Just curious if it actually happens if there any point of loading up on some cool stuff (not a bumpstock owner.. more wondering if something happened on a larger scale)

Yes AWs and >10 mags were grandfathered. They were called pre-ban and could be bought/sold with no issue, in states that allowed it.

However, Firearms deemed Machine Guns cannot be grandfathered.

You’re not very good at reading, are you OP?

Transferable machine guns cant be grandfathered? And what happened to 10+ mags, supposed to be "disposed" of? (edit sorry had my greater than messed up )

Only Machine Guns lawfully possessed prior to 5/19/86 are transferable.

Thus bump stocks cannot be grandfathered

Oh ya ok, I thought you meant something happened with transferring transferables during that 10 year period. All good

This is what I'm betting is the plan.  He is able to say he 'tried' but congress/ATF is the problem.  Kind of like how W said he'd sign the AWB Sunset renewal if it got to his desk, which of course it didn't.  Allowed him to play both sides.  Same thing here.  If they do ban bump stocks off the "increases rate of fire" wording, well hell Home Depot and Jerry Miculek better go turn themselves in as well....

Hence why everyone had to turn in their atchinskon (sp?) converter (for 10/22s I believe. Basically a bump stock wth a spring) as they were all made post 86 and were all reclassified as machine guns

Akins Accelerator.

First let me say the following because I love to say it and can never say it enough:

Only In Washington DC can a bill that outlaws an entire category of firearms be called "The Firearms Owner's Protection Act."

Yes, I would agree that bump stocks could be classified as a machine gun conversions, but only if we repealed the Hughes amendment and allowed the registration of new machine guns and conversion devices.  You want to control/register bump stocks... great, we would be happy to register them.  Just let us do it by repealing Hughes.

I speculate that the number of bump stocks and Atkins Accelerators, registered, would be zero.

Trump wants a 4 percent increase in GNP.  Repeal Hughes.  There is enough pent up demand, to fuel a huge increase in the manufacturing segment.  People are paying 20K for an M16.  Imagine what would happen if they were 1200 bucks.

Now none of my economic forecast is true because machine guns would be such a tiny percentage of the manufacturing industry, but I can lie just like the other guy.

Unfortunately my money is on this outcome as well after today's announcements.

It appears the powers at be are not happy with the speed of the regulatory reclassification process on this matter and just used executive power to push on the gas pedal and motivate bureaucrats in the ATF to get this over with.   I assume the ATF is probably not happy about being put in this position and having to look more flip/floppy than a fish out of water and is dragging this along a bit via an initial ANPRM vs. just coming out of the gate with a NPRM.

Plus I am sure the ATF know this ruling will lead to a bunch of lawsuits...which they will probably ultimately win...but it will be embarrassing for them as they will have to stand up in court and explain how they "fucked up" saying these were legal for years only to reverse course years later "accidentally" making tens of thousands of Americans felons overnight.

I suspect we will see the formal NPRM,  classifying bumpstocks as machineguns in the near future.   There will be a 30 day regulatory comment period (which will come and go) and the final rule will probably be in place by sometime later this summer.

Hopefully they at least offer some form of compensation to the current owners....but I am not holding my breath.  Pure speculation on my part but they will probably say you can keep the stock but will have to either permanently modify them so they dont slide and/or you have to remove the finger hold.

Virtually the only positive I can see in this is that at this point, is the proposed rule (based on the ANPRM) is that it appears to only include recoil assisted "bumpstocks".   There was no language in the ANPRM about cranks or binary triggers, etc.  That doesn't mean that the final NPRM won't include other devices (especially after the POTUS comments today), but the hope is that other ROF increasing accessories may get a pass in the NPRM given all the focus in upon traditional bumpstocks.

If this was left to legislative process (especially if the Dems were in control after midterms) it would quite possibly scoop up a bunch of other NFA avoidance accessories (cranks, braces, binary triggers, etc.)  vs. just a targeted traditional recoil assisted bumpstocks.

they may classify them as something that can be regulated.

They cannot by the definition of a machine gun be classified as a machine gun.

That's my take on it.  Placate the angry mob, then they forget about it and move on to something new to pillage.

Doubtful, there are not many of them. They will just say the are MGs and give owners X number of days to contact the ATF to have them picked up or have them turned into local LE.

If this happens Trump has lost my vote. He promised us national concealed carry and deregulated suppressors.  Instead he bans bump stocks.  Starting to think he is a liberal in disguise  

Lots of folks didn't think ATF 41F was going to happen either. I was the only one in the industry right the entire time. I am still right about HPA.

This one is a little different, as it is being requested by the White House, not NFATCA. But all indications are it is a go.

RenegadeX understands what's going on here.  Trump stated the following in his memorandum.

Trump has directed the ATF/DOJ to find bumpstocks to be machineguns.  This has been coming since Las Vegas.  I was hopeful the ATF would stick to their old ruling, but it seems pretty obvious at this point, that they have been told what to find.  They will do as they're told and then the fights in court can begin.

I am not fully briefed from DC on what happened yesterday. With shooting have not talked to anybody. I do know ATF want to punt bump stocks to Congress, but WH insisted back in Nov/Dec hence the RFC in January. There has been a small battle and it appears ATF lost, given Trump memo.

I have not heard him say he wanted to ban them.  I just heard him again.

He said that he had the justice department looking at whether they were illegal under current law, (we know that they are not).

He said that he wrote a letter calling for the ban of devices that turn a gun into a machine gun, (we know that they don't).

Paragraph 4:

"propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns."

Bump stocks do not do this.

Lol, it will soon be the professional opinion of the ATF/DOJ that they do.

To me the only thing I can think of is regulating how a rifle stock is defined/classified.. Somehow saying when the trigger is pulled the stock cannot be in motion? lol dunno, it will be an interesting argument either way whatever they come up with

I am sure when you point that out to Ginsberg, Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan and Kennedy, they will immediately agree with you and overturn this rule in a quick 5:4 decision.

What rule?  They may determine that they create a machine gun, but that would be a reversal of their repeatedly stated position.

Here is DT's statement, which uses the same language as the memo.  In the part the cut out at the beginning, he says he directed the doj to determine if they are illegal under current law.  They already did this.

I guess you missed my earlier post, yes it is a reversal, order by the WH:

I am not fully briefed from DC on what happened yesterday. With shooting have not talked to anybody. I do know ATF want to punt bump stocks to Congress, but WH insisted back in Nov/Dec hence the RFC in January. There has been a small battle and it appears ATF lost, given Trump memo.

Given urgency Trump stated, I expect the new rule to be proposed in days/weeks, not months.

Maybe they will,  but it doesn't say so in your post.

It seems to me that the only way they could do it through atf vs.banning them by eo,  would be to change the legal definition of a machine gun.  Since that is defined by law enacted by Congress, can they actually change it?

Does that worry you in regards to transferable machine gun sears? Waiting on my HK sear that I’ve saved ages for to get form 4 approved... and now I’m sweating bullets.

Trump is an imprecise speaker. I do not think that is what he means. This is about bump stocks, Hellfire, BMF activator, etc.

I don't think it's imprecise, since he almost exactly quoted the memorandum.  Sounded deliberately precise to me.