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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:08:44 PM EDT
1963 Springfield muzzle loader and a couple double barrel shotguns from Hopkins and Allen Arms Company. Also some old photos and would like to know where to begin on finding out about them or value.
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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:09:49 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:21:09 PM EDT
[#2]
 Attached File Attached File Attached FileI can't help him but maybe one of you guys know something about this stuff. Any response is appreciated. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:31:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/426002/received_1036397073575465_jpeg-2234757.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/426002/received_318999690143634_jpeg-2234758.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/426002/received_467203164791466_jpeg-2234759.JPG I can't help him but maybe one of you guys know something about this stuff. Any response is appreciated. The shotguns would look good over the fireplace at Cracker Barrel. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:48:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The shotguns would look good over the fireplace at Cracker Barrel. No doubt 
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Posted: 1/9/2022 7:54:42 PM EDT
[#5]
The Springfield is a Model 1866 .50-70 Alinn conversion. The lock plate indicates it maybe a converted .58 caliber Model 1863 (about 25,000 converted) or it may be a purpose built Model 1866 (about 27,000).
Conversions had relined barrels. Google shows an example in "superb" condition offered at $32500. Your friend's example is not "superb". |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 8:04:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Springfield is a Model 1866 .50-70 Alinn conversion. The lock plate indicates it maybe a converted .58 caliber Model 1863 (about 25,000 converted) or it may be a purpose built Model 1866 (about 27,000). Conversions had relined barrels. Google shows an example in "superb" condition offered at $32500. Your friend's example is not "superb". Thanks It's definitely not anything mint but he was thinking about selling. I would be interested but don't know what to offer. I'd offer a few hundred bucks but if it's anything valuable I would have no need other than a wall hanger. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 9:01:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks It's definitely not anything mint but he was thinking about selling. I would be interested but don't know what to offer. I'd offer a few hundred bucks but if it's anything valuable I would have no need other than a wall hanger. Well, it's certainly not the average trapdoor but one of the more rare early variations. Too bad about the condition. You need to find a hard core collector. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 9:24:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, it's certainly not the average trapdoor but one of the more rare early variations. Too bad about the condition. You need to find a hard core collector. I was going to offer him 300 but told him to find a collector. It's too bad about the condition for sure but I didn't want to low ball him after researching. He isn't really into guns much less trap door civil war type stuff so he asked me if interested or see what was up with it. I'd probably use it as trade fodder but don't really have the knowledge or energy to put in the leg work. If it was a common cheap rifle I'd hang it up but maybe someone would want it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 9:30:24 PM EDT
[#9]
If my information is up to date, all known M1866 Allins were conversations. The earliest used 1864 produced rifle muskets, with the later produced ones using 1863 produced arms. The M1868 was the first purpose built version with new manufactured barrels and receivers. 1863 locks and other parts were used where they could be until supply exhausted.
I’ve seen originals go in the 800-1200 range in good condition. Even saw one in mint condition valued at 3K. There was just over 50k M1866s produced and a significant number of them got sent to France during the Franco Prussian War. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 9:56:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If my information is up to date, all known M1866 Allins were conversations. The earliest used 1864 produced rifle muskets, with the later produced ones using 1863 produced arms. The M1868 was the first purpose built version with new manufactured barrels and receivers. 1863 locks and other parts were used where they could be until supply exhausted. I’ve seen originals go in the 800-1200 range in good condition. Even saw one in mint condition valued at 3K. There was just over 50k M1866s produced and a significant number of them got sent to France during the Franco Prussian War. Great info I'll tell him about all the answers I got. He thinks he can get 1500 but judging by the condition and some of the info here and others input I'd probably say that's very optimistic. I find this stuff interesting and remember an old friend who sold off a lot of his cool collection of AKs, HKs, and other valuable rifles he got in the 80s and 90s to get into more of the trap door type of stuff. I could see 2 similar old muzzle loaders and not understand why one was a few hundred and the other was a few grand |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 10:57:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If my information is up to date, all known M1866 Allins were conversations. The earliest used 1864 produced rifle muskets, with the later produced ones using 1863 produced arms. The M1868 was the first purpose built version with new manufactured barrels and receivers. 1863 locks and other parts were used where they could be until supply exhausted. I've seen originals go in the 800-1200 range in good condition. Even saw one in mint condition valued at 3K. There was just over 50k M1866s produced and a significant number of them got sent to France during the Franco Prussian War. |
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Posted: 1/13/2022 12:05:51 AM EDT
[#12]
I bought a much nicer condition 2nd Allin Conversion (No rust) last year from my lgs for $800 otd. Mine has a bright bore with a dark stock and outer barrel, not pristine but in quite good shape.
I would be hard pressed to give $300 for the one pictured. |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 6:40:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My reference says ~25k were conversions of the ~52k made. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If my information is up to date, all known M1866 Allins were conversations. The earliest used 1864 produced rifle muskets, with the later produced ones using 1863 produced arms. The M1868 was the first purpose built version with new manufactured barrels and receivers. 1863 locks and other parts were used where they could be until supply exhausted. I've seen originals go in the 800-1200 range in good condition. Even saw one in mint condition valued at 3K. There was just over 50k M1866s produced and a significant number of them got sent to France during the Franco Prussian War. Incorrect. Take your pick of Frasca, Flayderman's, or Hosmer. The 1866s were conversions of Model 1863s. From Frasca Book II:  As stated, the 1868 was the first to feature a receiver. Quoted: I'll tell him about all the answers I got. He thinks he can get 1500 but judging by the condition and some of the info here and others input I'd probably say that's very optimistic. Very optimistic indeed. Going off Gunbroker I'd cut that estimate at best in half. I gave less than $1500 for this one a couple of years ago.  |
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Posted: 1/17/2022 8:15:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Wow, that is in wonderful shape. Mine has been molested beyond any value beyond the value of the intact parts.
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Posted: 1/17/2022 10:17:57 PM EDT
[#15]
He decided to keep it and wanted to sell the shot guns. I'd probably pass on those, maybe $50 for wall hanging.
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