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Posted: 5/19/2018 9:17:23 PM EDT
I have a Liberty Safe USA 48 Gun Safe. Just installed today bolted to my wood carpeted floors. The safe still seems to tilt forward about a 1/2” to 3/4” when I open the door. And I can hear creaking in the floor. I don’t have a lot of guns in it maybe 4 long guns. Should I put some full ammo cans on the bottom to remedy this? Or is there another way to secure it from tilting at all. House was built in 2015 so floors should be able to withstand the weight I hope.
Link Posted: 5/19/2018 9:27:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I have a Liberty Safe USA 48 Gun Safe. Just installed today bolted to my wood carpeted floors. The safe still seems to tilt forward about a 1/2" to 3/4" when I open the door. And I can hear creaking in the floor. I don't have a lot of guns in it maybe 4 long guns. Should I put some full ammo cans on the bottom to remedy this? Or is there another way to secure it from tilting at all. House was built in 2015 so floors should be able to withstand the weight I hope.
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the weight isnt the issue.

Re-check your fasteners. You did use  nuts and bolts with washers, right?
Link Posted: 5/19/2018 9:52:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
 I think what is happening is that when you open the door weight is transferred forward and the carpeting and pad compress and that is what you are seeing.
Link Posted: 5/19/2018 10:01:56 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
 I think what is happening is that when you open the door weight is transferred forward and the carpeting and pad compress and that is what you are seeing.
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The door is heavy. The carpet in the room is pretty thin. Just concerns me that it will tip over and this may be my kids bedroom one day when me and my wife decide to have children. I’m not as worried about it being stolen as I am to come home to find it laying face down in the room.
Link Posted: 5/19/2018 11:11:42 PM EDT
[#5]
You have several things working against you.

First, you have a wide safe that isn't very deep.  When the door is open this creates a lot of leverage.   All of that leverage is working on the front right corner of the safe.

Second, you have carpeting and pad.  Your safe is not heavy enough to permanently compress that.  You're putting more pounds per square inch on the floor with your foot as you stand there than the safe is.  This means that the carpet and pad will always move.  This is working along with the leverage to create your lean.

Third, you used their bolt down kit with lags.  Assuming you have 3/4" worth of subfloor, you're only biting into the floor by two or maybe three threads.  If you're lucky you have plywood.  If you're dealing with modern construction it's likely some sort of chip board.  Either way, combined with #2 above, eventually that lag will be ripped out of that 3/4" material.

Will the safe ever tip over on its own?  Only if the door is opened.

If you want to bolt it properly you'll need to add some material beneath your subfloor to handle it.
Link Posted: 5/19/2018 11:36:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You have several things working against you.

First, you have a wide safe that isn't very deep.  When the door is open this creates a lot of leverage.   All of that leverage is working on the front right corner of the safe.

Second, you have carpeting and pad.  Your safe is not heavy enough to permanently compress that.  You're putting more pounds per square inch on the floor with your foot as you stand there than the safe is.  This means that the carpet and pad will always move.  This is working along with the leverage to create your lean.

Third, you used their bolt down kit with lags.  Assuming you have 3/4" worth of subfloor, you're only biting into the floor by two or maybe three threads.  If you're lucky you have plywood.  If you're dealing with modern construction it's likely some sort of chip board.  Either way, combined with #2 above, eventually that lag will be ripped out of that 3/4" material.

Will the safe ever tip over on its own?  Only if the door is opened.

If you want to bolt it properly you'll need to add some material beneath your subfloor to handle it.
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Could I get away with a longer Bolt from Lowe’s?
Or will I need to support the floors under my crawl space? Thanks for the reply.
Link Posted: 5/20/2018 12:29:42 AM EDT
[#7]
maybe make sure you have the safe positioned spanning as many joists as possible and close to a load bearing wall? would be ideal to have the 4' width span 3 joists and not just 1 or 2 going parallel with the joists.
Link Posted: 5/20/2018 1:41:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Could I get away with a longer Bolt from Lowe’s?
Or will I need to support the floors under my crawl space? Thanks for the reply.
View Quote
I'm not in the business like a1abdj, but if you have access to underneath the safe by using a crawlspace, I would drill through the floor and bolt the safe in place using some large fender and lock washers.
Link Posted: 5/20/2018 8:54:23 AM EDT
[#9]
I am also not in the business like a1abdj and any advice that he offers should be considered.

However, if I was in this situation then I would access the crawl space and locate where the stock bolts penetrated the floor.   If they are accessible then I would cut two lengths of 2x4 or 2/6 that are as long as I can make them (I would try hard to keep them over four feet long) and place them over the existing holes, parallel with your floor joists.   Personally I would screw them in place with screws that will not fully penetrate your floor to keep them place during installation.   Then I would use carriage bolts, washers, and nuts to bolt up through your safe with the nuts inside the safe.   That way any effort to tip the safe would require pulling the 2/4 up through the floor.   Tightening the bolts will also compress the carpet/pad to stabilize the safe.    If you were concerned with someone going under the safe and unbolting it then I would drill holes in the bolts (inside the safe) for cotterpins.   This is what I did with mine until I moved it.  It was solid as a rock.   My family members would push against is to gauge its weight and it wouldn’t move at all.   Then I would get comments about it weighing a ton and being a bugger to move.   .   Hope that helps.

2Hut8
Link Posted: 5/20/2018 11:39:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am also not in the business like a1abdj and any advice that he offers should be considered.

However, if I was in this situation then I would access the crawl space and locate where the stock bolts penetrated the floor.   If they are accessible then I would cut two lengths of 2x4 or 2/6 that are as long as I can make them (I would try hard to keep them over four feet long) and place them over the existing holes, parallel with your floor joists.   Personally I would screw them in place with screws that will not fully penetrate your floor to keep them place during installation.   Then I would use carriage bolts, washers, and nuts to bolt up through your safe with the nuts inside the safe.   That way any effort to tip the safe would require pulling the 2/4 up through the floor.   Tightening the bolts will also compress the carpet/pad to stabilize the safe.    If you were concerned with someone going under the safe and unbolting it then I would drill holes in the bolts (inside the safe) for cotterpins.   This is what I did with mine until I moved it.  It was solid as a rock.   My family members would push against is to gauge its weight and it wouldn’t move at all.   Then I would get comments about it weighing a ton and being a bugger to move.   .   Hope that helps.

2Hut8
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Great advice.
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 9:05:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
However, if I was in this situation then I would access the crawl space and locate where the stock bolts penetrated the floor.   If they are accessible then I would cut two lengths of 2x4 or 2/6 that are as long as I can make them (I would try hard to keep them over four feet long) and place them over the existing holes, parallel with your floor joists.   Personally I would screw them in place with screws that will not fully penetrate your floor to keep them place during installation.   Then I would use carriage bolts, washers, and nuts to bolt up through your safe with the nuts inside the safe.   That way any effort to tip the safe would require pulling the 2/4 up through the floor.   Tightening the bolts will also compress the carpet/pad to stabilize the safe.   If you were concerned with someone going under the safe and unbolting it then I would drill holes in the bolts (inside the safe) for cotterpins.   This is what I did with mine until I moved it.  It was solid as a rock.   My family members would push against is to gauge its weight and it wouldn’t move at all.   Then I would get comments about it weighing a ton and being a bugger to move.   .   Hope that helps.  
View Quote
This is basically what I've done in the past as well, but I also put down a rigid wooden base/platform under the safe and on top of the carpet to help address the bold issue.  Once everything was tightened up, there was no further movement at all.
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 9:21:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not in the business like a1abdj, but if you have access to underneath the safe by using a crawlspace, I would drill through the floor and bolt the safe in place using some large fender and lock washers.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Could I get away with a longer Bolt from Lowe’s?
Or will I need to support the floors under my crawl space? Thanks for the reply.
I'm not in the business like a1abdj, but if you have access to underneath the safe by using a crawlspace, I would drill through the floor and bolt the safe in place using some large fender and lock washers.
add some 2x blocking under the sub floor then bolt it
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 9:45:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Buy a couple 8' 4x4s, through bolt them UNDERNEATH the floor joists , using allthread. It'll capture at least 4 joists depending on the joist spacing. Won't tip over and be a lot harder to steal
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 12:47:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Any of the ideas above would work.  Either way you're going to have to get underneath it and add some material.  How you do it is just a matter of preference.
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 1:17:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Buy a couple 8' 4x4s, through bolt them UNDERNEATH the floor joists , using allthread. It'll capture at least 4 joists depending on the joist spacing. Won't tip over and be a lot harder to steal
View Quote
I considered this for my installation as well.   The reason that I opted to not use this technique is that the long threaded rods would be more accessible to remove.   You would have to weld the nuts underneath or the thief could simply remove them and shove the rods up into the safe.

Using lag bolts/carriage bolts allows less opportunity to do so.   Just my $0.02.

2Hut8
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 5:51:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 5/21/2018 7:11:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks everyone! I put two shims under the front left, middle, and right of the safe. And added 4 2x6s too the underside of the floor for my lags to go through.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 9:28:40 PM EDT
[#18]
I am in the same situation however instead of a crawl space I have a unfinished basement beneath the safe. If I added the 2x6 under the sub floor and used carriage bolts a thief could just grind the head off of the bolts. So this is what I was thinking. If I could get two plates of steel that would make the carriage bolt head recessed protecting it from a grinder that would be a good thing. Problem is making the plates or finding a substitute that could do the same thing. Any ideas are welcome.

The plates

Attachment Attached File


This would be looking up from the basement.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 9:59:32 PM EDT
[#19]
 If I added the 2x6 under the sub floor and used carriage bolts a thief could just grind the head off of the bolts.  
View Quote
If the thief has a grinder he's going to cut into your typical gun safe in half the time you'll spend bolting it down.  

I wouldn't be overly concerned about a thief carrying the tools needed to defeat any bolt job, because any of those tools would be more effective prying, beating, or cutting on the safe itself.
Link Posted: 7/10/2018 10:11:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If the thief has a grinder he's going to cut into your typical gun safe in half the time you'll spend bolting it down.  

I wouldn't be overly concerned about a thief carrying the tools needed to defeat any bolt job, because any of those tools would be more effective prying, beating, or cutting on the safe itself.
View Quote
I figured that right after I posted. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/20/2018 1:32:50 AM EDT
[#21]
If you run the 4x material perpendicular to your joists it'll be a lot stronger then just on the plywood/osb flooring.

If you're worried about people grinding off the heads of the bolts or nuts, add material over the top  - drill out a 3/4" hole in a 4x or a 2x and cover up the safe bolts and add a handful of 3" screws. Gotta bring a drill/impact driver/grinder and a prybar into your basement or crawlspace.

At that point they might a well just hang out and drink your beer til you get home and ask you to open the safe for them , because it'd be a lot of work to get to the bolts.

For an exposed floor joist in a basement, you'd want to go a different route  obviously, but catching more floor space/joists then the safe occupies would help a lot.
Link Posted: 7/20/2018 8:22:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For an exposed floor joist in a basement, you'd want to go a different route  obviously
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@NWRed

What route would you take?
Link Posted: 7/20/2018 9:49:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

@NWRed

What route would you take?
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Something like  running 4x material or a couple 2xs parallel to the joists under the safe  and lag bolt them to joists, bolt or screw the safe into the sistered up "beams". Maybe a 1-1/4" hole through several joists and fish a piece of 5/8 rebar through the joists to spread out the footprint of the safe.  U bolts around the bar or even run the bat through eye bolts with the nuts inside the safe.

Wood blocking running perpendicular to the joists and lagged in would do similar. Tie more of the floor system together to hold the safe down, making it harder to tip over or move.

Drill a hole through the joists and run several feet of  1/2" wire rope/cable and secure it with Crosby clamps inside the safe .

Lot of variables depending on the floor and how much room you have to work with and what you have available for tools and materials.
Link Posted: 10/8/2018 4:43:31 PM EDT
[#24]
I bolted mine into a corner.  On the edges of the carpets are these spike strips that secure / tension the carpet.  I had to shim the front with a wood strip to level the safe so it wouldn't lean forward.
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