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Posted: 3/13/2023 9:15:43 AM EDT
I'm going to try a F1 suppressor that I intend to use on 45-70, beowulf and also planning a 510 whisper which is my real motivation. I have a bmg can that would probably work on any of those but I'm wanting something a bit lighter and more compact.
Anyone know what the most common or successful baffle designs look like for a can like this? Should I just stick with k-type baffles like I'm seeing in most of my commercial cans? I've not been able to find any pictures of what the inside of a vers50 looks like. That seems to be the commercial standard for this application. I'd like to do the majority of the work on lathe if possible but I could probably pull off a monocore as well (manual mill). |
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VEN
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Posted: 3/13/2023 9:23:05 AM EDT
[#1]
I have a Rex Silentium can I use on my 450 bushmaster. I know nothing of baffle design, etc, but it was like $500, short/compact, full auto rated, and does a pretty good job IMHO on 450 bushmaster. Maybe you can learn something from their design.
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Posted: 3/13/2023 9:37:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jd2395: I have a Rex Silentium can I use on my 450 bushmaster. I know nothing of baffle design, etc, but it was like $500, short/compact, full auto rated, and does a pretty good job IMHO on 450 bushmaster. Maybe you can learn something from their design. Thanks, I’ll take a look. At that price it might not be worth reinventing the wheel. |
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VEN
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Posted: 3/13/2023 3:42:34 PM EDT
[#3]
https://hansohnbrothers.com/shop/rex-silentium/silencers/large-bore/rex-silentium-mg7-458/
mine is not that shiny. That's where I bought mine, but no affiliation, etc. It's gone up $50! |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2023 9:26:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jd2395: I have a Rex Silentium can I use on my 450 bushmaster. I know nothing of baffle design, etc, but it was like $500, short/compact, full auto rated, and does a pretty good job IMHO on 450 bushmaster. Maybe you can learn something from their design. Interesting that they all appear to be a stack of radial/swept cones welded together. Hardened 17-4 too. That kind of design is normally best suited to subsonic rounds with relatively low pressure but they're offered for supers and subs alike. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2023 9:38:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Third_Rail:That kind of design is normally best suited to subsonic rounds with relatively low pressure but they're offered for supers and subs alike. None of the calibers you listed, sub or supers, is high pressure. The larger bore and suppressor design will keep pressures quite low. The cones separate the higher pressures and the radials manage the lower pressures, towards the distal end. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2023 9:48:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Third_Rail]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By User55645: None of the calibers you listed, sub or supers, is high pressure. The larger bore and suppressor design will keep pressures quite low. The cones separate the higher pressures and the radials manage the lower pressures, towards the distal end. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By User55645: Originally Posted By Third_Rail:That kind of design is normally best suited to subsonic rounds with relatively low pressure but they're offered for supers and subs alike. None of the calibers you listed, sub or supers, is high pressure. The larger bore and suppressor design will keep pressures quite low. The cones separate the higher pressures and the radials manage the lower pressures, towards the distal end. I didn't list any calibers. I expressed surprise that the same baffle design would be used regardless of caliber. It seems unusual for a manufacturing choice as far as offering one baffle for subsonic large bore and the same baffle for short barrel magnums. |
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Posted: 3/14/2023 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm having trouble finding any pics of the baffles in those things. I saw a couple of the .22 but that was it.
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Posted: 3/14/2023 1:06:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KalmanPhilter]
[#8]
………
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Posted: 5/18/2023 8:12:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Its' been over 10yrs since I even did any shopping for cans, so I'm really trying to get up to speed. I was looking at some of the monocore designs and they are tempting due to the simplicity but I'm guessing a lot of testing/trial & error goes into getting one of those to work well. The inside of my osprey is amazing. I would never guess something that simple would work at all.
Anyway I think I'm going to go with a K-type baffle and just cram as many as I can in a 1.75" x 10" tube. I'm thinking Ti tube, stainless rear and blast baffle, and aluminum baffles and endcap. With a low pressure application like this I'm seeing a lot of recommendations to use a smaller blast chamber and symmetrical clipping. Do the symmetrical clips apply to k-type baffles as well as cones/radials? I can't recall seeing a k baffle with symmetric clipping... |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2023 7:32:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: User55645]
[#10]
I'd seriously advise you away from K's. They are great baffles and can be extremely efficient. The issue is with your knowledge. You're not going to get them right the first, second, third, or fourth time. They are a trail and error design. Stick with cones and proven deigns. You'll get great results, in an easy to build design, with proven results.
Here's one that was posted a while back. Several have copied and all seemed very pleased.  I believe this was also used for supers. You could shorten the blast spacing or even make it modular and move that piece to the distal, when firing subs. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 8:28:25 AM EDT
[#11]
I have been reading a lot lately and starting to sway towards the cones. I had an idea that resembles an omega more than a K but I think you are right. I don't have the patience to make the baffles over and over, and I don't want to count on getting lucky. Cones would be a lot simpler to machine as well.
I am not seeing the pic you posted on my PC or phone. Is it one in the build thread? My barrel blank, reamer, gauges, dies etc all showed up the same week and a lot quicker than I had expected. The rifle itself is pretty much done now. I threaded it so I could use my BMG can but now that I've tried it on for size, I'm more motivated than ever to make a lighter one. I should have sent the form 1 2 months ago. 
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CT, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2023 9:32:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE:I am not seeing the pic you posted on my PC or phone. Is it one in the build thread? I'm pretty sure it's from the form1 boards, but couldn't narrow it down any further. Can you right click the pic link and "open in new tab"? If not, I can send you the pic. It lays out tube length, spacers, cones, etc. |
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Posted: 5/25/2023 10:17:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Not sure maybe it was just the site, it’s loading fine now. Thanks.
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Posted: 7/13/2023 11:23:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: I'm having trouble finding any pics of the baffles in those things. I saw a couple of the .22 but that was it. Go to the last page of the “Blast baffle pics and round count” thread in Armory>Silencers. I‘ve found the Rex cans to perform better than expected for size in 9mm subs, 5.56, Grendel, etc. Even the .458 k can works better than expected on the AK74, though I’d go longer if I was to do it again, or a bit smaller bore, if I were doing it again. I originally bought it for a PCC, and its excellent on that. |
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Posted: 7/13/2023 12:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BASE]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: Go to the last page of the “Blast baffle pics and round count” thread in Armory>Silencers. I‘ve found the Rex cans to perform better than expected for size in 9mm subs, 5.56, Grendel, etc. Even the .458 k can works better than expected on the AK74, though I’d go longer if I was to do it again, or a bit smaller bore, if I were doing it again. I originally bought it for a PCC, and its excellent on that. Thanks. Cones may be the way here I guess. I’m curious about the little hole opposite of the clip, and how it works. Is that what is called a “dater hole”? I just finished the rifle earlier this week so now my attention is back on figuring this part out. |
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Posted: 7/13/2023 4:27:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: Thanks. Cones may be the way here I guess. I’m curious about the little hole opposite of the clip, and how it works. Is that what is called a “dater hole”? I just finished the rifle earlier this week so now my attention is back on figuring this part out. In this case, the cones are curved, in the typical, not Ops/Surefire style; not sure how well my pics show that. Dunno what that hole is about. I’ve been calling them “weep holes” after someone called them that on silencertalk years ago. Someone there said that such holes allow the can to drain if held muzzle down after being submerged. While that could be true, and it would do that to some degree, I think its more likely there for flow/sound characteristics. It would be beyond my understanding why that would work, but my Rex cans do a very good job of sound/backpressure/length balance, and are among my favorites. All of my Rex cans have them, none of my others have them, or at least in the same style. But I know I’ve seen them on other rifle cans before. I don’t remember if they were same side or opposite in the others. I think “Dater holes” are a K baffle thing, but I could certainly be wrong. |
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Posted: 7/13/2023 6:46:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BASE]
[#17]
You are probably right. I was spending a lot of time looking at k-baffles in the cans I already have. The big alpha I've been using on this whisper has what looks like 6 k's and the
 (sucks trying to get a pic in one of these things) The cones, or even radiused ones (radials maybe) would be a lot easier for me to machine, and sounds like less particular about the details/design than the k's. |
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Posted: 9/7/2023 9:12:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: You are probably right. I was spending a lot of time looking at k-baffles in the cans I already have. The big alpha I've been using on this whisper has what looks like 6 k's and the https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/196570/aplpha_blast-2884691.jpg (sucks trying to get a pic in one of these things) The cones, or even radiused ones (radials maybe) would be a lot easier for me to machine, and sounds like less particular about the details/design than the k's. My form 1 can I machined 9 baffles. I ended up mixing Radial cones with 60 degree cones. Double clipped. Would love to get this thing metered! I get compliments all the time on how quiet it is. Keep in mind its a beast of a can, almost 10” long. But it suppresses 300wm better then my hybrid. The only can I have found that sounded similar was one of the big thunderbeast can at one of the PRS match. I figured the radial cones would help with the subsonic loads. Decided on the size of the blast chamber and loaded it with as many baffles I could get away with. Simple and quite effective. It was my first can so I made it for maximum quiet, and had nothing at the time to compare to. It continues to impress me even 7 years later. |
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Posted: 9/7/2023 9:39:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Cones would probably be the smartest approach to this one. I don't think I want to try and machine radials on my old manual lathe. For some reason I can't even put my finger on I am really pulled towards the k-baffles. I think for subs the k-baffles will work well if I don't screw them up. If not, I will recore the thing with cones.
I'm still waiting on the approval so all I have to show so far is a brake:  I tried it out over the weekend for the first time and it works well for making noise and surprised me with it's ability to unscrew itself. The little dick shaped holes are to blame I think. I'm right at 6 weeks now so hopefully soon.... |
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Posted: 2/22/2024 6:50:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Holy shit it's been a while. I kinda forgot I even started this one. Thanks to some advice from a fellow member here I was able to get the form 1 kicked loose earlier in the week.
This was what I more or less ended up with:  And here are the pile of parts that are almost a suppressor:  I did end up going with the k-baffles even though I know it's a bit of a gamble. I think they seem to work well on low pressure stuff despite what I've read. Some of my favorites are k's. I like the way they sound when they are done right anyway. Going to try my home hard anodizing process on the baffles and trim a bit more material off the tube and it will be ready to try out. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 5:32:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Posted on the other forum but forgot to follow up here. Hard anodized the baffles, turned a bit more material off of the tub and tested it.
    Whisper Test New Can |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 3:36:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: User55645]
[#22]
Nice. The K design looks decent (I would've scooped w/ a larger dia bit and I do the waist vent from a different orientation).
Question, how dirty is the inside of the tube and exterior of the K's (in the coaxial portion) getting? You might be able to make your waist vent a bit larger, which is easy enough (sans ruining the anodizing there). I say this as there's a considerable amount of gas venting from the can, immediately upon firing. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 5:05:27 PM EDT
[#23]
I ported that first blast baffle to vent right into the first k-baffle scoop and I could see for sure that was doing it's job but there wasn't much else to see. I only got about a dozen rounds through it before I pulled it apart. It didn't help that I anodized them and they all look charcoal black. My plan is to open them up a bit and see if it helps. I kinda knew they were on the small side but figured I could always enlarge them. I gave it to my SOT to engrave a while back so I guess I need to get it back and play around some more.
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CT, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 6:01:24 PM EDT
[#24]
I always make that front scoop the same dia of the bore or the next lower common ball mill size. Scoop depth looks good, though. Coat them with white lithium and it'll help show particles. I open the vent with a tapered round diamond file, from the outside. Just file away the sharp edge, a bit at a time. Repeat a firing test to see improvement. The vid does sound good, though.
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Posted: 3/14/2024 8:16:06 AM EDT
[#25]
I thought about ordering a 9/16 ball end mill after I cut the first one but I had a pretty bad case of blue balls after waiting 8 months for that damn eform 1 to be approved. The bore is a little on the loose side at ~0.575" so I think that would have worked out well if I had the patience to wait. That homemade hardcoat ended up working a little better than I thought so I think they are just going to have to be what they are. I do have some diamond files and burrs for my die grinder that should work okay to open up those ports, or waist vents, or whatever they are called. I shoved the ti wire anode in there so they aren't 100% coated anyway.
I think I can milk some more out of it with my loads. The H110 doesn't seem to burn completely. N110 shows a more complete burn in GRT but I had some weird results the first time I tried it. Velocity was generally lower but the SD was horrible which surprised me as I was very careful in loading them. I did use mag pistol primers and not rifle, also they had sat in the shop overnight where it was freezing and then shot early in the morning. I'm looking forward to playing around with it some more and stretching it's legs a bit. It's hard to appreciate the effect of a suppressor when the bullet impact is so noisy (and close). It doesn't come through on the phone well but it sounded to the ear like there was a sonic crack. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 10:22:34 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: I thought about ordering a 9/16 ball end mill after I cut the first one but I had a pretty bad case of blue balls after waiting 8 months for that damn eform 1 to be approved. The bore is a little on the loose side at ~0.575" so I think that would have worked out well if I had the patience to wait. That homemade hardcoat ended up working a little better than I thought so I think they are just going to have to be what they are. I do have some diamond files and burrs for my die grinder that should work okay to open up those ports, or waist vents, or whatever they are called. I shoved the ti wire anode in there so they aren't 100% coated anyway. I think I can milk some more out of it with my loads. The H110 doesn't seem to burn completely. N110 shows a more complete burn in GRT but I had some weird results the first time I tried it. Velocity was generally lower but the SD was horrible which surprised me as I was very careful in loading them. I did use mag pistol primers and not rifle, also they had sat in the shop overnight where it was freezing and then shot early in the morning. I'm looking forward to playing around with it some more and stretching it's legs a bit. It's hard to appreciate the effect of a suppressor when the bullet impact is so noisy (and close). It doesn't come through on the phone well but it sounded to the ear like there was a sonic crack. Nice job on the machining BASE. For sub loads in 45/70 I find Trailboss gives the best SD and quietest results. I know it is almost impossible to find now but worth the price if you can find it. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 10:42:18 AM EDT
[#27]
When working up loads, pay attention to the Pmax. You want as much (safe) pressure as you can get as well as complete powder burn, while staying subsonic.
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Posted: 3/17/2024 6:02:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By User55645: When working up loads, pay attention to the Pmax. You want as much (safe) pressure as you can get as well as complete powder burn, while staying subsonic. I’m no expert on interior ballistics or reloading but I have a working theory that I’m having trouble keeping pressure up in this cartridge enough to get good burn. My software doesn’t do a good job predicting this one either. I think once that fat bullet starts moving the p/v thing starts happening quickly. Probably need some proper primers before I do anything else though. I got the tube back from my SOT and the engraving looks great. Had a couple people ask me who made it, so that always makes me feel good. What did not make me feel good is that those damn baffles are stuck in there so hard I was afraid I was going to damage something (had them in the press). Soaking now. Will try again in a few days. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 7:35:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: User55645]
[#29]
Yup, pressure is something a lot of reloaders overlook, as being a good thing. I understand if you're program doesn't help much.
If there's any Trailboss around, take a look at it. You have a lathe I assume? Make a part that threads into the tube w/ a threaded port to accept a Zerk or other hydraulic type fitting. Use a grease gun or other hydraulic tool to push everything out. Make sure those baffles are slathered in White Lithium or a general purpose anti-seize (like Loctite LB8009) when assembling. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 8:24:56 AM EDT
[#30]
I think where I eff'd myself is I was using superglue to keep the baffles aligned the second time I assembled it. Pretty sure I must have glued it to the tube. I'll try a bit of heat next go at it. If I don't get them out now, I probably never will.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/18/2024 1:07:30 PM EDT
[#31]
I’ve seen a few schemes from manufactures for k-baffle (spiral at 90 degrees or alternating clocking), but could never hear a difference.
What’s the consensus wisdom on k-baffle scoop / port orientation stack arrangement? |
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