Several factors to consider

Ergonomics
useful modes
illuminator capability
tape switch compatibility
Illuminator visible signature
Price
Size
Durability

The MAWL has them all (maybe the price is high but not really considering its the same as the DBAL A4)
No sinlge laser does them all currently except the MAWL available to the civilian market.

The Dbal A3 is probably the sweet spot other than its funky zeroing procedure of positively loading the springs. Its illuminator is good, ergo nomics for activation are good, switchology is ok, price is middle of the road. Durability is good.

If you didn't like the 9007 I2, the ATPIAL-C, DBAL-A3, etc., are not really going to be any better, as they're all capped at the same basic performance level.

The Persts are about what you'd expect from a Russian Special Forces laser, think AK versus M16, kind of clunky and unrefined, but generally functional. That being said, I don't think they've been around long enough for anyone to really be able to give feedback on long term durability of service life, but I've seen Russian electronics before, and let's just say they're not always terribly impressive, but that's neither here nor there.

My bigger concern with the Persts would be that they've more or less been flying under the radar in terms of output because they're an overseas company and they could give two shits what the FDA thinks--U.S. manufacturers have to seek variances and do a decent amount of testing to ensure "safe" power levels for open commercial sales. To my knowledge they haven't started being seized at customs yet, but it's impossible to say if and when someone might wise up to them, and that will be the end of that. IR aiming lasers aren't necessarily at the top of the FDA or CBP's enforcement list, but that doesn't mean they're never going to take notice. The good is that probably people who have them will be allowed to keep them, but those that have them on order, out on RMA, and those that are selling them might not have as good a time, and then once they break, they broke, like all the other gray market full power lasers out there.

If neither the DBAL-D2 nor the I2/A3/ATPIAL-C satisfy your needs, my inclination would be to say to go ahead and save up for a MAWL.

~Augee

I like the MAWL, but to be honest, I absolutely love the old ATPIAL with standard and high outputs (AN/PEQ-15, LA-5, etc.) a lot. Some of that is familiarity, I'm sure, but that's immaterial.

I have on hand MAWL-C1+s, MAWL-DAs, standard power ATPIALs and ATPIAL-Cs, all the DBAL variants, Wilcox RAID-X, and plenty of other lasers.

Gray market lasers notwithstanding (and I do consider the Perst to be a gray market item), in my opinion, nothing else commercially available matches the performance of the MAWL-C1+, and in general, I would put it's performance pretty much on par with that of a standard power AN/PEQ-15 for everything except the high power IR pointer with no visible downrange signature.

Do I think higher output lasers should be more available? Definitely, but the simple fact of the matter is that at this point they're not, except for on the gray market, which again, as long as it's not straight up stolen, I don't mind or care about the gray market, and plenty of enthusiasts, hog hunters, etc., buy on the gray market happily.

However, we deal with a lot of individual LEO customers (e.g.,) who have to equip themselves on their own dime, and are likewise restricted from purchasing high output IR laser systems whom I cannot in good conscience recommend a gray market laser to, in which case the MAWL is top dog by a long shot from an illuminator performance standpoint, and for punching through photonic barriers especially. I can make an ATPIAL-C or DBAL-I2/A2 work because I understand their limitations, and the DBAL-D2 makes for a decent match in terms of downrange performance, but again, comes with the price of downrange signature (I've played the FoF games with the D2, yes, you can see it) that makes it less than ideal for duty use.

~Augee

In the same boat here.

I use a 9007 DBAL and a Luna ELIR3 long range IR illuminator.

I absolutely love my MAWL, but there are some things I wish were different. For instance, I dislike having 4 switches on top of my rifle when I run it with a tape switch and I dislike having to remove my white light to adjust the zero. Also, I wish the adjustments had a more positive click.

That said, the ergonomics are awesome. It’s way easier to adjust the MAWL than it is to adjust the setting of a PEQ or a DBAL. Additionally, adjusting the focus of a peq can be a real pain in the butt depending on your setup.

So pretty much from my senseless rambling, there are great options out there, but they could be better.

For doing it on the cheap, a DBAL i2 and a surefire vamp really isn’t a bad option. Or you could look for a used DBAL A4

Couple of notes:

First, for those who feel that the MAWL's illuminator is overpowering, are you consciously selecting between the A and B buttons for power output regulation?



On the one hand, there's a lot of switchology, but one of the main points about having an A and B button is to regulate between different power levels "on the fly" with the MAWL, without having to switch a rotary power dial to go between "HIGH" to "LOW."

@carterbrunelle - I hear you on the having four different buttons and making the switchology overtly complex, but for what it's worth, part of the point of the MAWL from a human engineering standpoint was to avoid having to have a 12 o'clock dual switch in order to control your laser--most of the folks that I know and that we work with and train with, if they're using a 12 o'clock remote switch, e.g., like the TAPS are doing so either (or both):

1. Because it provides an ambidextrous control option, and it not the primary mode of using the laser, and they will often mount the light on the support side, where the primary light activation method is the support side thumb with a dual click/remote cap (unsurprisingly most people tend to use a MAWL in conjunction with a Surefire Scout or Scout-tailcap compatible light/light body) with the MAWL sitting on the other side of the handguard.

or

2. Using something like the TAPS SYNC, where the remote switch is used either to activate the white light only, or to activate the white light in conjunction with the visible laser for simultaneous activation, where the TAPS SYNC/remote switch controls "all" of the white light/VIS functions, while "all" of the IR functions are controlled via the device buttons itself, giving the user a very clear delineation between which types of controls give them what kind of feedback/downrange effects, mitigating the chances of accidental WL discharges when using a dual switch to control both a light and laser as the difference between the rounded dome switches and TAPS buttons is very distinct even in the cold, wet rain, or while wearing gloves, etc.

So, meanwhile, this kind of leads us into a discussion about the visible laser:

Many folks consider the visible laser to be next to useless, except for zeroing and zeroing confirmation without IR. If this works for you, great. For many civilian enthusiasts, range shooters, hog hunters, etc., this may very well be true.

However, the requirement for a visible laser, not just on the MAWL, but on almost all "duty ready" LAM/MFALs is not about zeroing the device--and when the AN/PEQ-2/2A was "standard" in the SOPMOD program, the AN/PEQ-5 (Insight CVL) was also a part of the package, and many other units/organizations were using the Insight M6X light/laser combination, sometimes even in conjunction with the LA-5 ATPIAL.

During our training classes, we teach a "Load and Make Ready" procedure that is supposed to be ritualistic, where you check all of your devices, optics, lights, NVDs, etc., and load your weapon(s), starting with the secondary, and not only making sure that your gear is ready for the operation/training iteration, but also building muscle memory and neural pathways.

As I mentioned, a big part of the Load and Make Ready procedure is checking to make sure lights, lasers, and optics are all switched to the appropriate mode and brightness and power level for the particular operation/training iteration.

Moreover, one of the things that we brief and train in the classes is the discussion of when to go white light and when to go visible--the classes are called
"Night Fighter," not "Night Vision Fighter," and while learning about the capabilities and ways to use your Night Vision are a major part of the class, one thing we emphasize is that there are very often times when it becomes beneficial to transition to white light, generally to pick up speed and situational awareness, but also, especially in terms of domestic law enforcement operations, in many cases it simply isn't appropriate to covertly sneak in under NODs and assassinate people--potentially U.S. citizens on U.S. soil.

Moreover, even when "dark," powerful white light blasts can be extremely effective in gaining compliance and/or tactical advantage by disorienting your enemy, whose eyes are likely dark adapted, and doing so will not harm, damage, or make your NVDs any less effective.

So what's the point of all this?

Ultimately, especially in a CQB environment, white light transitions can and often must happen extremely quickly, without the chance to switch settings or even stow your NVDs, which is part of why the Load and Make Ready procedure is so critical in terms of making sure that everything is "how it needs to be" for the upcoming potential fight.

With that, part of your mission planning and execution should be determining SOPs for when and how to make white light transitions, and making sure that all of your tools are correctly configured to do so.

A way, depending on the scenario is to use your optic in a passive role as your primary NV sighting system, this may be because your enemy has NV capabilities already, may have security cameras that can pick up IR light, etc., or simply because you're in a setting where that's appropriate. In which case, it may be appropriate to have your light and laser set to VIS/WL so you can quickly make that transition without having to switch any settings, while powerful white lights can also wash out night vision if your enemy potentially has them as well, that is to say you do your approach and initial entry with NVDs using the optic, but if you have to switch to white light quickly, your visible aiming laser is ready to go, and especially if you're wearing dual tubes, the laser is much easier to aim with from underneath your NVGs, while still being more than visible in you NVGs even with white light if you're still using them.

Furthermore, we also do a lot of training, and have begun doing more and more with gas masks/respirators, again, which can benefit from using a visible aiming laser as a sighting device, as while tall mounted optics can help with masks, in many cases the laser is simply faster and easier to engage with, whether in VIS or IR.

Finally, visible lasers can also be extremely helpful during escalation of force, as well as providing direction to detainees, or even other personnel without NVDs as a command and control implement.

Again, a point worth reiterating is that even when equipped with an MFAL with both IR and VIS aiming lasers, many end-users have chosen to retain a VIS aiming laser capability, especially before it was as popular to use red dot sights in a passive aiming role under NVDs.



Finally, and more "Tales from Training":

Re: visible red downrange signature from LED illuminators

Structures can get very dark inside, and while most residential rooms are pretty small, a lot of buildings and hallways can get pretty big and pretty long, especially in basements, e.g.,

In particular, and as just one example, where we train in Alliance, Ohio, there are several buildings owned by the city that we are able to conduct NV training operations in to give students a taste of what it is like to actually operate "in the wild" at night and with NVDs, instead of just in sterile range and shoot house conditions.

One of these buildings is a church with a fairly large basement and attached kitchen. When you get down there, you very quickly learn and realize that you MUST have an IR illuminator, no matter how awesome your tubes are. Secondary note, you also see very quickly where Fusion systems like the COTI bring tremendous value and situational awareness. Several members that actively post on this forum have been there, and know exactly what I'm talking about.

Be a bad guy: hiding out in the church, hearing a bunch of shooting, doors being kicked in, yelling from the upper levels, etc., and know that someone's coming after you, and running to the basement to try to hide.

You hear the footsteps getting closer, your buddies being taken in, so you sit in the dark, waiting, hoping that if you're going down, you're at least taking some of these motherfuckers with you.

You peek out into the pitch dark, and you see one or two glowing red orbs swirling around in the darkness, and you grab your gun and send a hail of rounds into those red orbs.

Be a SWAT cop: you've hit the building, but you see a staircase heading down into a sizeable basement. You know there are several bad guys hiding out inside that may have fled into the basement.

This is a real life active building, not the shoothouse you're used to at the range. Buildings aren't clean, there's glasses and plates, fire extinguishers, silverware, furniture, posters and signage, all sorts of crap hanging out inside of an active building.

You get down in the basement and realize that you can't see a goddamn thing, even with your ass kicking 2500+ FOM L3 UF WP tubes in your TNV/RNVG, so you kick on your IR illuminator from your DBAL-D2 so you can actually see. You turn into a big room, all sorts of shit is reflecting back at you, you're trying to sort out in a 1,000+ square foot room what's a threat, and what's not, and where someone could be hiding.

As you scan the basement, you suddenly see a glint of what could be eye shine, and next thing you know, there's a hail of bullets headed your way. As you start bleeding out, you think to yourself: "but the internet said that visible downrange signature wasn't a big deal..."

Okay, so I'm being a little dramatic for narrative sake.



But the point is, to some people, in some situations, the visible signature of an LED illuminator--ANY LED illuminator, can absolutely be important.

Maybe not to everyone and maybe not in every situation, but to some, in can be extremely important, and yes, potentially even the difference between life and death for some people.

And for what it's worth?

Yes, an ATPIAL-C or DBAL-A3 would be way better in this situation, if you can't have a MAWL, which is why in most cases, for duty use, I still recommend a laser based illuminator, and simply make sure that end-users are aware of the relative limitations of the IR illuminator when they need to punch through photonic barriers, or outside of doors in mixed light.

Whew...

That went on a little longer than I expected...



~Augee

No to the LED's as most are in the 815 to 850nm, same as the lasers. Other 2 points, yes & yes, lasers are tenfold more concentric.

As do I--but in some circumstances, especially a big, low ceilinged room like that, you need the directional IR illum, a close-in hot spot, whether above your head or on the floor, is actually going to make the edges of the illumination darker as your goggle adjusts the brightness to account for the IR light spill.

As I've said, it's all about knowing your equipment and its capabilities, and perhaps more importantly, its limitations.

~Augee

On the one hand, @Deltastone’s got the gist, and face-on especially, the googles are blocking a lot of the splash, and you can be a ways off if you’re in the back of that basement, or the other end of a school hallway, or whatever, the bigger issue is that that red orb can be pretty damn visible and noticeable.

On the other hand, a red light simply produces a different psychological response than a green or blue light.



Again as I said before, it’s about knowing your equipment and its capabilities and limitations, and I did say I was being dramatic for illustration purposes.

~Augee

You weren’t the only one, hahaha.

Yeah, like I said, the one thing the MAWL-C1+ lacks in comparison to the MAWL-DA is a true high power IR pointer.

FWIW, I’ve never had a problem picking up the aiming laser when using the long range IR illum, but I’ll also be honest, the C1+ I use mostly lives on a 6.75” 300BLK MCX and prefer to use a DA on 5.56 guns, so to be fair, I’m not necessarily using the long range IR as much with the C1+, if anything, if I’m kicking it into long range, it’s to access the IR aiming laser-only using the B button.

That being said, as I mentioned earlier—if you’re not willing or able to buy on the gray market, the MAWL-C1+ IMHO is really in its own class, in terms of both performance AND price.



Doesn’t mean I hate other LAMs or think they’re worthless, but my opinion stands if you can afford it, MAWL is the way to go.

~Augee

It's not a device that I would have ever really recommended, but especially not now...

~Augee