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Posted: 3/4/2023 12:13:10 PM EDT
 Attached File Attached FileLooking for suggestions for a good handheld thermal monocular option for urban environments. Think SHTF situation. A wide field of view would be necessary to scan for threats in a complex environment. Being lightweight, having removable batteries and long battery life are all preferred. Is the Flir Breach still king in this arena? Seems like an older model now. Has anyone heard if they will come out with a 2.0? Does it have any worthy/newer competitors? From TNVC  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/4/2023 3:25:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/184776A3-D19D-4E36-9713-4B374060E4F7_jpe-2733417.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/834C899D-B6B8-4B80-8F96-9D12B29549F9_jpe-2733418.JPG Looking for suggestions for a good handheld thermal monocular option for urban environments. Think SHTF situation. A wide field of view would be necessary to scan for threats in a complex environment. Being lightweight, having removable batteries and long battery life are all preferred. Is the Flir Breach still king in this arena? Seems like an older model now. Has anyone heard if they will come out with a 2.0? Does it have any worthy/newer competitors? From TNVC https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/108C93AE-6517-4DEB-BB27-66FA2A5ADAD3_jpe-2733415.JPG Nox 35 is what I recently went with for similar reasons. (Not my video) |
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Posted: 3/5/2023 1:12:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Skeetirx
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Posted: 3/5/2023 11:44:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Depends on the location (specifically operating distances) as to how well the Breach will accomplish the task. Being a 320 with a 9mm lens it’s not a long range device but it will work great for the shorter distances in dense urban areas for navigating streets, alleyways, etc.
Keep in mind that thermal can’t see through glass so you won’t be able to detect people hiding inside vehicles or look outs behind windows. It’s rugged, tiny and easy to conceal/carry which is its greatest strength. It uses 1x CR123A but it can run off a USB battery. If a tiny device isn’t a requirement, an alternative FLIR product is the SCION series. I personally really like this device for its large removable battery tray. As it comes the tray holds 6x CR123A for 4.5 hours of run time but there is a rechargeable battery accessory available that gives about 12 hours of run time. With the rechargeable battery you can keep the CR123A tray loaded up as a backup if needed. It can also run off a USB battery. The SCION OTM366 has a focusable 25mm lens and 1.3x base mag. For more FOV the OTM266 is 1x but the best model for FOV is the PTM166 with 0.7x. These 3 models are a 640 sensor. The SCION records video/pics internally but unlike the Breach you can install an SD card for much larger video/photo storage capability to replay on the device or download. This is a very useful feature that can be used for surveillance for route planning etc. There is a 1/4x20 on the bottom for mounting. You can also stream video from the SCION to a cell phone or tablet to use it while remaining concealed (cover the eyepiece of course). |
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Posted: 3/5/2023 12:50:03 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 3/5/2023 1:54:57 PM EDT
[#5]
I would look at some of the newer Iray offerings before I would buy a Breach this late in the game.
Flir hasn't made any changes to that platform in the six or more years it's been out. It's very finicky with CR123s. I was out in the field this weekend hiking and camping, brought a Iray Mini and it was amazing. The V2 is coming out sometime in the next few months as well. The V1 blows the Breach away. |
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Posted: 3/5/2023 3:20:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Surprised no one has mentioned the Nox18.
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Posted: 3/5/2023 4:37:57 PM EDT
[#7]
When I had a breach a couple years ago, I tried using it in the city during a summer night when the asphalt was still a little warm. It couldn’t detect a human at 70 yards standing on asphalt. That was with me taking my time and adjusting the settings as perfectly as possible to that environment. The person standing in the street was essentially invisible/perfectly blended with the road. This is something that no other thermal I owned had an issue with.
IMHO whatever technology/algorithms are used for detection in the breach are the worst I’ve used. It’s for that reason I can’t recommend it for urban use, and I typically don’t even recommend it at all for anything. |
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Posted: 3/5/2023 5:31:45 PM EDT
[#8]
There’s some pics & vids in this thread of the Breach in urban conditions to give you an idea if it’s what you’re looking for.
Link |
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Posted: 3/5/2023 6:39:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Im not much of a photographer but here are some pics through my Flir OTM266 640 scanner. I wasn’t impressed and sold it. It didn’t seem to have the legs or resolution necessary to see in the places I wanted to look. I did like the battery options though.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 1:12:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Your budget is a big factor.
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Posted: 3/6/2023 11:40:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Budget is a huge factor. Country of origin is also a huge factor for some. Sticking to American, the NOX18 is an excellent alternative but at obviously a higher cost. OP is looking for a scanner with a focus on FOV.
Keep in mind that you will sacrifice image quality at distance with a wider FOV 1x base native magnification with the SCION or Breach. Hell even with the NOX18 you'll find threads where folks were very disappointed with it. Magnification plays a significant role. The first set of photos in this thread is a great example. Decide what's most important to you (realistically) and what trade offs you're able to accept or that you MUST accept. There's almost always a compromise you have to make. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 3:04:39 PM EDT
[#12]
I went went with the nox 18.
I wanted a 1 power with a wide field of view I could use as a hand held or helmet mount. One thing about watching a video is your seeing the vid on a big screen TV or computer monitor. Looking though the nox 18 your field of view is about 1/3 less then what you see out of a pvs14. The nox 18 has I think the widest field of view of the x1 thermals out there I believe. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 4:03:04 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/6/2023 6:38:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Appreciate all the great info! Carefully going through all of this..
Thanks again. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 8:08:18 PM EDT
[#15]
@GroundhogOZ has shared the most pics I've ever seen on here of thermal use in urban conditions
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Posted: 3/6/2023 9:26:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nox 35 is what I recently went with for similar reasons. (Not my video)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk2Qkr8QSW4Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/184776A3-D19D-4E36-9713-4B374060E4F7_jpe-2733417.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/834C899D-B6B8-4B80-8F96-9D12B29549F9_jpe-2733418.JPG Looking for suggestions for a good handheld thermal monocular option for urban environments. Think SHTF situation. A wide field of view would be necessary to scan for threats in a complex environment. Being lightweight, having removable batteries and long battery life are all preferred. Is the Flir Breach still king in this arena? Seems like an older model now. Has anyone heard if they will come out with a 2.0? Does it have any worthy/newer competitors? From TNVC https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/108C93AE-6517-4DEB-BB27-66FA2A5ADAD3_jpe-2733415.JPG Nox 35 is what I recently went with for similar reasons. (Not my video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk2Qkr8QSW4Have you had a chance to use it yet? Any dislikes? |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 9:49:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Have you all seen the Infiray T2 and T3? Seems like excellent quality for something that can disappear in your pocket. T2 is only $399 lol.
 Attached File Attached File InfiRay T3 Search Smartphone Thermal Monocular  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 11:24:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you had a chance to use it yet? Any dislikes? I’ve only had it for a day lol Looks great so far. Definitely better than my Reap IR. The magnification seems about perfect for urban situations. I’m concerned about distances that are “across the street” and “down the block” and “the other side of the parking lot” and “between those cars over there”. I don’t think I would want any less magnification. If I needed to be outside in the dark in an urban setting, a pvs-14 and a 2x thermal would be my pick. (The nox is listed as a 2.5x but it is supposedly much closer to a 2x according to people who know about those things) Very happy with this purchase, I think I found the right one for me. I just stepped out on my front porch to get a pic for this post…it is very humid here, about to rain, I didn’t focus the lens very well and just fired the unit up and took a pic without letting it warm up or nucing it….which is to say this pic is not representative of how good it looks in person.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 11:26:45 PM EDT
[#19]
I can't get good pictures trying to hold phone to eye pieces and it's to much light tonight for the pvs 14, so I just took 1 quick shot.
This is to give you an idea of FOV with a x1 therm and x1 night vision. Notice the pvs 14 has a wider FOV then the therm. If you go to a unit with more native magnification you will lose FOV, but you gain detection distance.     |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 8:37:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you all seen the Infiray T2 and T3? Seems like excellent quality for something that can disappear in your pocket. T2 is only $399 lol. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/F7D00238-0627-4629-AC8C-B173AE8C1251_jpe-2736723.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/C0F8CCDB-5F31-4330-A21B-A31AF5A59B3C_jpe-2736724.JPG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d6-RfXJ31Ahttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/8B726938-D6CC-40FA-917E-17992A2474F2_jpe-2736730.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327183/CB9D0E71-5C7B-46DC-B9B1-24748BC4E49F_jpe-2736731.JPG Kel did a review of the T2 on another forum and posted the YT video there:  t2 Pro Xinfrared Overview & Comparison: $7000 Thermal Scope vs. $400 Mini-cam! |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 12:01:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I would look at some of the newer Iray offerings before I would buy a Breach this late in the game. Flir hasn't made any changes to that platform in the six or more years it's been out. It's very finicky with CR123s. I was out in the field this weekend hiking and camping, brought a Iray Mini and it was amazing. The V2 is coming out sometime in the next few months as well. The V1 blows the Breach away. Quoted: Surprised no one has mentioned the Nox18. Looking at both of these too. The Iray Mini V2 has my attention at $4k. |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#22]
OP, if you're wanting something for SHTF then I wouldn't buy something that needs a cell phone. My personal opinion is to get an American thermal that is 100% supported inside the USA.
Based on the current geopolitical climate I think most folks regardless of politics would agree that a conflict with communist China is increasingly becoming a VERY possible reality. To me that qualifies as a possible SHTF event. This has been coming to a boil slowly for some time. Before it boils over, it's a legitimate possibility that these devices could end up with zero support from sanctions etc. We've already taken measures to seriously hinder chicom semiconductors. You may not be in a position financially to buy another thermal if that happens because if things do get to that point then odds are the economy will be totally fucked so you'll probably just have what you have. If we're talking SHTF then this should be taken into consideration. |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 4:16:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, if you're wanting something for SHTF then I wouldn't buy something that needs a cell phone. My personal opinion is to get an American thermal that is 100% supported inside the USA. Based on the current geopolitical climate I think most folks regardless of politics would agree that a conflict with communist China is increasingly becoming a VERY possible reality. To me that qualifies as a possible SHTF event. This has been coming to a boil slowly for some time. Before it boils over, it's a legitimate possibility that these devices could end up with zero support from sanctions etc. We've already taken measures to seriously hinder chicom semiconductors. You may not be in a position financially to buy another thermal if that happens because if things do get to that point then odds are the economy will be totally fucked so you'll probably just have what you have. If we're talking SHTF then this should be taken into consideration. This is spot on. Myself being in the defense sector for a long time before and with TNVC early on. We've geared up for this potential conflict for a long time with China. With the latest comment's from SHEE jin-PING, this coming future conflict has come the closest I have seen... |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 4:22:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: OP, if you're wanting something for SHTF then I wouldn't buy something that needs a cell phone. My personal opinion is to get an American thermal that is 100% supported inside the USA. Based on the current geopolitical climate I think most folks regardless of politics would agree that a conflict with communist China is increasingly becoming a VERY possible reality. To me that qualifies as a possible SHTF event. This has been coming to a boil slowly for some time. Before it boils over, it's a legitimate possibility that these devices could end up with zero support from sanctions etc. We've already taken measures to seriously hinder chicom semiconductors. You may not be in a position financially to buy another thermal if that happens because if things do get to that point then odds are the economy will be totally fucked so you'll probably just have what you have. If we're talking SHTF then this should be taken into consideration. Quoted: This is spot on. Myself being in the defense sector for a long time before and with TNVC early on. We've geared up for this potential conflict for a long time with China. With the latest comment's from SHEE jin-PING, this coming future conflict has come the closest I have seen... Thanks for the feedback. With that in mind I’ll start focusing on the NOX 18 or 35. I do have a Yoter C which is great for the medium/longer ranges. I am local to their CEO, Boris, and bought directly from him. Sounds like they fix their products here in the US but I’m sure they get their parts from China so that could be impacted as well. I’ll probably pickup the Infiray T2 for fun at $399 too. |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 5:15:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the feedback. With that in mind I’ll start focusing on the NOX 18 or 35. I do have a Yoter C which is great for the medium/longer ranges. I am local to their CEO, Boris, and bought directly from him. Sounds like they fix their products here in the US but I’m sure they get their parts from China so that could be impacted as well. I’ll probably pickup the Infiray T2 for fun at $399 too. Nox are your best American made choice under $10K, no doubts there. NVision is an awesome company and any issues have been handled quickly and painlessly. Flir on the other hand.... They ditched the TWS line, could have done upgrades and fixed problems with the Breach numerous times and have not. And service can be a problem. You mentioned SHTF, well if that happens you are on your own no matter what device you pick. |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 6:44:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the feedback. With that in mind I’ll start focusing on the NOX 18 or 35. I do have a Yoter C which is great for the medium/longer ranges. I am local to their CEO, Boris, and bought directly from him. Sounds like they fix their products here in the US but I’m sure they get their parts from China so that could be impacted as well. I’ll probably pickup the Infiray T2 for fun at $399 too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP, if you're wanting something for SHTF then I wouldn't buy something that needs a cell phone. My personal opinion is to get an American thermal that is 100% supported inside the USA. Based on the current geopolitical climate I think most folks regardless of politics would agree that a conflict with communist China is increasingly becoming a VERY possible reality. To me that qualifies as a possible SHTF event. This has been coming to a boil slowly for some time. Before it boils over, it's a legitimate possibility that these devices could end up with zero support from sanctions etc. We've already taken measures to seriously hinder chicom semiconductors. You may not be in a position financially to buy another thermal if that happens because if things do get to that point then odds are the economy will be totally fucked so you'll probably just have what you have. If we're talking SHTF then this should be taken into consideration. Quoted: This is spot on. Myself being in the defense sector for a long time before and with TNVC early on. We've geared up for this potential conflict for a long time with China. With the latest comment's from SHEE jin-PING, this coming future conflict has come the closest I have seen... Thanks for the feedback. With that in mind I’ll start focusing on the NOX 18 or 35. I do have a Yoter C which is great for the medium/longer ranges. I am local to their CEO, Boris, and bought directly from him. Sounds like they fix their products here in the US but I’m sure they get their parts from China so that could be impacted as well. I’ll probably pickup the Infiray T2 for fun at $399 too. Copy. We also offer ARFCOM discounts as well.  |
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Posted: 3/7/2023 7:44:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Copy. We also offer ARFCOM discounts as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP, if you're wanting something for SHTF then I wouldn't buy something that needs a cell phone. My personal opinion is to get an American thermal that is 100% supported inside the USA. Based on the current geopolitical climate I think most folks regardless of politics would agree that a conflict with communist China is increasingly becoming a VERY possible reality. To me that qualifies as a possible SHTF event. This has been coming to a boil slowly for some time. Before it boils over, it's a legitimate possibility that these devices could end up with zero support from sanctions etc. We've already taken measures to seriously hinder chicom semiconductors. You may not be in a position financially to buy another thermal if that happens because if things do get to that point then odds are the economy will be totally fucked so you'll probably just have what you have. If we're talking SHTF then this should be taken into consideration. Quoted: This is spot on. Myself being in the defense sector for a long time before and with TNVC early on. We've geared up for this potential conflict for a long time with China. With the latest comment's from SHEE jin-PING, this coming future conflict has come the closest I have seen... Thanks for the feedback. With that in mind I’ll start focusing on the NOX 18 or 35. I do have a Yoter C which is great for the medium/longer ranges. I am local to their CEO, Boris, and bought directly from him. Sounds like they fix their products here in the US but I’m sure they get their parts from China so that could be impacted as well. I’ll probably pickup the Infiray T2 for fun at $399 too. Copy. We also offer ARFCOM discounts as well. I’ve purchased NV from you guys. You all hooked me up. May need another monocular and bridge them but I’ll save that for a different thread.
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Posted: 3/7/2023 7:52:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve purchased NV from you guys. You all hooked me up. May need another monocular and bridge them but I’ll save that for a different thread. Right on. Thank you sir! We also have a 14 day return period
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Posted: 3/8/2023 11:25:39 PM EDT
[#29]
For urban/para-urban and city use, get a device with relatively large FOV. Why? because you rarely need to see long distance in these situations and its extremely important you can see several levels (building) in close proximity to your position. Optimal situational awareness.
But my NODs have a much larger field of view, so they must be better right? Not necessarily, its important to be able to determine other factors e.g. that house, apartment is warm and therefore occupied or only three of the 20 cars we can see have been driven recently. A thermal will very easily pick someone hiding in a bush Another factor to consider is form, something that can be held in the palm of your hand is very unobtrusive e.g. just someone with a videocam. Moreover, real world active use the device needs to be ruggedised and ideally will pass to at least IP67 dust and waterproofing. Best running with replaceable batteries that are readily obtainable and or can run off more or less any battery pack. The ability to mount to a helmet can have a lot of value. Technical specs - 1x native mag, 9mm to 18mm focal length, 12 micron pixel pitch, NETD < 50mK (see below for some examples).     Nice to haves inc. 60hz refresh rate, digital compass (numeric), on board recording and photos, real adjustment e.g gain, sharpness, SSO, gain correction etc. Things to be wary of, micro sd cards (slots can leak and cards often break) proprietary battery systems with atypical voltage, anything phone based (other than for home use), claims of detection range often stated using low probability and less important in most cases than recognition range (at medium to high probability). |
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Posted: 3/9/2023 1:45:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For urban/para-urban and city use, get a device with relatively large FOV. Why? because you rarely need to see long distance in these situations and its extremely important you can see several levels (building) in close proximity to your position. Optimal situational awareness. But my NODs have a much larger field of view, so they must be better right? Not necessarily, its important to be able to determine other factors e.g. that house, apartment is warm and therefore occupied or only three of the 20 cars we can see have been driven recently. A thermal will very easily pick someone hiding in a bush Another factor to consider is form, something that can be held in the palm of your hand is very unobtrusive e.g. just someone with a videocam. Moreover, real world active use the device needs to be ruggedised and ideally will pass to at least IP67 dust and waterproofing. Best running with replaceable batteries that are readily obtainable and or can run off more or less any battery pack. The ability to mount to a helmet can have a lot of value. Technical specs - 1x native mag, 9mm to 18mm focal length, 12 micron pixel pitch, NETD < 50mK (see below for some examples). https://i.imgur.com/OH9rse9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/GMnUgeJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fwKOTBP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BDNBrSv.jpg Nice to haves inc. 60hz refresh rate, digital compass (numeric), on board recording and photos, real adjustment e.g gain, sharpness, SSO, gain correction etc. Things to be wary of, micro sd cards (slots can leak and cards often break) proprietary battery systems with atypical voltage, anything phone based (other than for home use), claims of detection range often stated using low probability and less important in most cases than recognition range (at medium to high probability). I'll bookmark this post for the next time. That chart you made was also super beneficial  The SCION’s sd card slot is internally located under the battery tray so no risk of intrusion. It is a PITA to remove though. The best option is to leave in a larger storage card and use the USB-C port to retrieve/manage the media data vs pulling it. Although I would prefer a quicker way to field swap like a game-cam for certain types of use but that'd be a minority of most users. I agree on the proprietary battery although in the case of the SCION it is a better alternative to running 6x CR123As for most folks. The USB-C port is located near the bottom of the device which is the best spot when using a separate power source. I really like the SCION models but I personally prefer the Breach for its outdoor alert mode. The SCION does not have that palette for whatever reason. It is the best one I've ever seen and IMHO is one of its best strengths (for certain environments). Settings may need to be adjusted and as always YMMV. I know there are folks who don’t like it. With that said, I think most users would prefer the OTM366 for its 640, 1.3x native magnification, and focusable lens. For readers – you should know my use case/location. It is non-hunting, in an extremely rural pinion-juniper forest, and for DRI of larger animals to avoid run-ins (mountain lion, black bear, javelina, elk, etc.). I've compared it against several thermals and although the Breach's image may not be as "pretty", I can easily ID animals of this size (and humans) at every distance on my property. Yes, the Breach is a little long in the tooth, but it accomplishes my needs, and its size, ability to helmet mount, and being American are why I will continue to sing its praises and use it unless a suitable American replacement emerges (hopefully from FLIR). If the Breach didn’t exist then I would have the NOX18. ETA: As covered in previous replies, and to emphasize again, if you want a better image then NOX18 or NOX35. |
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Posted: 3/10/2023 8:14:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Some shots from the Infiray T2. Bought it more as a fun gizmo than a serious thermal device.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 7:26:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Armasight Sidekick also looks like a great option. Out in a few months. Basically a modern FLIR Breach (Armasight was bought by FLIR then spun off). American-ish (assembled of US and foreign parts, but the sensor is allegedly American?). 640 and 320 models.
https://armasight.com/sidekick-640-mini-thermal-monocular/ |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 5:01:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Armasight Sidekick also looks like a great option. Out in a few months. Basically a modern FLIR Breach (Armasight was bought by FLIR then spun off). American-ish (assembled of US and foreign parts, but the sensor is allegedly American?). 640 and 320 models. https://armasight.com/sidekick-640-mini-thermal-monocular/ That one looks interesting. I wonder if it powers from an external source also. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 10:39:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Big +1 for the Nox18. If you can afford it, it's well worth the added cost over the FLIR. Those pics above that compare the Nox18 and Breach posted by GroundhogOZ are from my Nox18 and my Breach (before I sold it). I've been very happy with that decision. Would like to buy a Nox35 down the road.
ETA: When shopping for a new thermal, I went Nox18 because I just decided I wasn't willing to buy a Chinese thermal when there were non-Chinese alternatives that I could afford. But a potential future conflict with China is an interesting angle on that decision too. |
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Posted: 3/11/2023 11:50:20 PM EDT
[#35]
+1 to everything Groundhog said. For a point of reference, here’s some very urban/crowd type imagery with a 12um/25mm device giving a 17.5deg FoV as opposed to some of the 24deg options like the NOX18 and upcoming Sidekick (very interested to see this in the next month or two). The NOX35 is 12.2deg across for reference, so this is somewhere in the middle. Decent distance resolution, but needs more scanning to take in a wide area.
 iRay RH25 Thermal @ Disney World |
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Posted: 3/12/2023 1:29:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That one looks interesting. I wonder if it powers from an external source also. I believe someone reached out to Armasight and were told it can use an external battery pack |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 1:45:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kel did a review of the T2 on another forum and posted the YT video there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0rA_TaHQQEI was messing around with the T2 this weekend: a buddy just got a new house and we were critiquing the job the builder did on his insulation. I had the T2 in the truck, so plugged it into my iPhone ProMax and showed him his cold spots where they should add more fill:   (The images are sharper than this, I apparently didn't have it focused in these pics.) Sometimes I kind of wish it was native "0-power" or 1x magnification, as I wind up using it as a close-range scanner vs. a longer range spotter. Honestly, the ability to plug into your phone (using it as a monitor that records to Camera Roll, etc.), the thing is smaller than a golfball, does iPhone camera Picture-in-Picture on the thermal so you can tell what you're looking at on real cam vs. thermal imaging, does a crosshair if you want, white/black/color hot pallettes, has thermal active tracking that has a little blip that detects and then follows moving targets, and it's <$400? Not a bad thing to have around in a little go-bag. I got it so I could let my little nephew scan for hogs and have something to do while we're in the hunting blind and I'm on a "real" thermal-scoped gun. That way, he's helpful (and not bored and blind trying to look at a pitch black feeder 100 yards downrange) while it's the grownup's turn to shoot. |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 10:54:22 AM EDT
[#38]
FLIR has thermal imagers for cell phones in the same price range and even a lower cost option.
We don’t carry these but you can find them online from a variety of sellers. https://www.flir.com/browse/home-amp-outdoor/mobile-accessories/ |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 10:54:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Double tap
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Posted: 3/13/2023 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FLIR has thermal imagers for cell phones in the same price range and even a lower cost option. Those are pretty short-range though, and super low resolution. I've played with them before, and (assume) they're good for electricians and housing contractors and such seeing up-close water damage and the like. Comparing, the FLIR is a rechargable battery onboard,whereas the T2 sucks power via phone's USB/Lightning. That either means it drains your phone (boo), or doesn't require its own power (yay). In the "SHTF situation" OP asks about, I'd think a teeny imager you could pull out of a bag that doesn't require charging is a plus. Use a big powerbank for phone+anything else if needed. The FLIR system overlays (woot! fusion bro!) a real camera image with thermal image, cheating to give a seemingly-better looking display image, but the thermal part is still only 160x120 res... pixel-city. The T2 is 384×288 or 256x192 depending on model. NETD is 70mk on the FLIR vs. <50mk on the T2. The blended image's focus on the FLIR is supposed to be good for 10 feet. You can detect out farther, but it gets blurred right quick. Look at this kid's video when they get past a few strides: unidentified walking blob.  Flir one gen 3 distance test (at Night) I liked the Breach when I hunted with a prototype of it many years ago, never have used the production ones though. But their little phone-cams weren't useful in the role OP is asking about. T2, perhaps could be. |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 5:53:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are pretty short-range though, and super low resolution. I've played with them before, and (assume) they're good for electricians and housing contractors and such seeing up-close water damage and the like. Comparing, the FLIR is a rechargable battery onboard,whereas the T2 sucks power via phone's USB/Lightning. That either means it drains your phone (boo), or doesn't require its own power (yay). In the "SHTF situation" OP asks about, I'd think a teeny imager you could pull out of a bag that doesn't require charging is a plus. Use a big powerbank for phone+anything else if needed. The FLIR system overlays (woot! fusion bro!) a real camera image with thermal image, cheating to give a seemingly-better looking display image, but the thermal part is still only 160x120 res... pixel-city. The T2 is 384×288 or 256x192 depending on model. NETD is 70mk on the FLIR vs. <50mk on the T2. The blended image's focus on the FLIR is supposed to be good for 10 feet. You can detect out farther, but it gets blurred right quick. Look at this kid's video when they get past a few strides: unidentified walking blob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7R5kTPT3bMI liked the Breach when I hunted with a prototype of it many years ago, never have used the production ones though. But their little phone-cams weren't useful in the role OP is asking about. T2, perhaps could be. I wouldn't use either of them for SHTF. Even more so the T2 since it requires you to install a Chinese made/developed app on your mobile device. No thanks. The OP didn't originally ask about a phone cam and no one recommended it to the OP for SHTF. ETA: I posted about the FLIR alternative for those folks who may not know about them. |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 6:37:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't use either of them for SHTF. Even more so the T2 since it requires you to install a Chinese made/developed app on your mobile device. No thanks. The OP didn't originally ask about a phone cam and no one recommended it to the OP for SHTF. ETA: I posted about the FLIR alternative for those folks who may not know about them. I hear ya on the foreign-app-on-main-phone hesitations. I have a separate old iPad I use for apps that I don't want linked to my personal data. It's hard to avoid foreign made products though - like, I don't know if Bering is something to avoid for the same reasons because they've used iRay and Ukrainian guts or not, but there's some nice midrange options there too. There were a couple guys mid-thread that mentioned micro-sized phone-cams as an alternative, so I was just riffing on that. (And also pointing out that the FLIR options aren't really options that would work at all in OP's role, whereas the T2 *could* work in a pinch for similar situations for someone that doesn't want to spend Skeet-type money.) Ultimately, defining "SHTF" and "scanning for threats" from the OP post seem important to the thread. Has our hypothetical lone survivor had the world fall down around him on his way back from work, only packing a hideout pistol, yet also happens to have a thermal monocular in his knapsack, and is now looking for pockets of maurading badguys out in the wasteland to engage with his micro carry 9mm? :D I mean, I could see planning for semi-realistic emergency SAR, like if you're looking for survivors in earthquake rubble, or hunting small game in survivalist situations. But past that, we're quickly getting into wasteland-fantasy. The type of disaster that probably isn't going to "surprise" you on your way home from Target whilst getting a new air fryer with the missus. |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 6:54:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear ya on the foreign-app-on-main-phone hesitations. I have a separate old iPad I use for apps that I don't want linked to my personal data. It's hard to avoid foreign made products though - like, I don't know if Bering is something to avoid for the same reasons because they've used iRay and Ukrainian guts or not, but there's some nice midrange options there too. There were a couple guys mid-thread that mentioned micro-sized phone-cams as an alternative, so I was just riffing on that. (And also pointing out that the FLIR options aren't really options that would work at all in OP's role, whereas the T2 *could* work in a pinch for similar situations for someone that doesn't want to spend Skeet-type money.) Ultimately, defining "SHTF" and "scanning for threats" from the OP post seem important to the thread. Has our hypothetical lone survivor had the world fall down around him on his way back from work, only packing a hideout pistol, yet also happens to have a thermal monocular in his knapsack, and is now looking for pockets of maurading badguys out in the wasteland to engage with his micro carry 9mm? :D I mean, I could see planning for semi-realistic emergency SAR, like if you're looking for survivors in earthquake rubble, or hunting small game in survivalist situations. But past that, we're quickly getting into wasteland-fantasy. The type of disaster that probably isn't going to "surprise" you on your way home from Target whilst getting a new air fryer with the missus. SHTF is one of those terms that means different things to different people. Regardless of the hypothetical situation, most folks with experience with these devices would agree that a dedicated device is the way to go, and not something that requires something else in order to work. |
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Posted: 3/18/2023 7:39:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was messing around with the T2 this weekend: a buddy just got a new house and we were critiquing the job the builder did on his insulation. I had the T2 in the truck, so plugged it into my iPhone ProMax and showed him his cold spots where they should add more fill: https://i.imgur.com/Wfeg4Mq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gpFaOuZ.jpg (The images are sharper than this, I apparently didn't have it focused in these pics.) Sometimes I kind of wish it was native "0-power" or 1x magnification, as I wind up using it as a close-range scanner vs. a longer range spotter. Honestly, the ability to plug into your phone (using it as a monitor that records to Camera Roll, etc.), the thing is smaller than a golfball, does iPhone camera Picture-in-Picture on the thermal so you can tell what you're looking at on real cam vs. thermal imaging, does a crosshair if you want, white/black/color hot pallettes, has thermal active tracking that has a little blip that detects and then follows moving targets, and it's <$400? Not a bad thing to have around in a little go-bag. I got it so I could let my little nephew scan for hogs and have something to do while we're in the hunting blind and I'm on a "real" thermal-scoped gun. That way, he's helpful (and not bored and blind trying to look at a pitch black feeder 100 yards downrange) while it's the grownup's turn to shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Kel did a review of the T2 on another forum and posted the YT video there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0rA_TaHQQEI was messing around with the T2 this weekend: a buddy just got a new house and we were critiquing the job the builder did on his insulation. I had the T2 in the truck, so plugged it into my iPhone ProMax and showed him his cold spots where they should add more fill: https://i.imgur.com/Wfeg4Mq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gpFaOuZ.jpg (The images are sharper than this, I apparently didn't have it focused in these pics.) Sometimes I kind of wish it was native "0-power" or 1x magnification, as I wind up using it as a close-range scanner vs. a longer range spotter. Honestly, the ability to plug into your phone (using it as a monitor that records to Camera Roll, etc.), the thing is smaller than a golfball, does iPhone camera Picture-in-Picture on the thermal so you can tell what you're looking at on real cam vs. thermal imaging, does a crosshair if you want, white/black/color hot pallettes, has thermal active tracking that has a little blip that detects and then follows moving targets, and it's <$400? Not a bad thing to have around in a little go-bag. I got it so I could let my little nephew scan for hogs and have something to do while we're in the hunting blind and I'm on a "real" thermal-scoped gun. That way, he's helpful (and not bored and blind trying to look at a pitch black feeder 100 yards downrange) while it's the grownup's turn to shoot. I believe there’s a T2 with a 1x wider view. The T2 Pro starts at 2x. |
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Posted: 3/19/2023 8:31:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Armasight Sidekick also looks like a great option. Out in a few months. Basically a modern FLIR Breach (Armasight was bought by FLIR then spun off). American-ish (assembled of US and foreign parts, but the sensor is allegedly American?). 640 and 320 models. https://armasight.com/sidekick-640-mini-thermal-monocular/ Just looked at the specs and it says battery life is "up to 1 hour at 68deg". That pretty sad and demands a battery pack. |
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Posted: 3/21/2023 2:58:09 PM EDT
[#46]
So where does the EOTech ClipIR fall in with the rest of these? I know the ClipIR is a bit more money, but I don't know what extra you get for that extra money.
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Posted: 3/22/2023 7:42:31 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just looked at the specs and it says battery life is "up to 1 hour at 68deg". That pretty sad and demands a battery pack. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Armasight Sidekick also looks like a great option. Out in a few months. Basically a modern FLIR Breach (Armasight was bought by FLIR then spun off). American-ish (assembled of US and foreign parts, but the sensor is allegedly American?). 640 and 320 models. https://armasight.com/sidekick-640-mini-thermal-monocular/ Just looked at the specs and it says battery life is "up to 1 hour at 68deg". That pretty sad and demands a battery pack. Agreed, but if it'll run for 3-4hrs on an external pack the size of an 18650 or 5-7 on one the size of a cigarette pack that you can velcro to it then that would seem to be a very capable scanner I'd be interested in. |
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