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Posted: 12/20/2018 12:07:20 AM EDT
What's yall's opinion on the best belt fed, machine gun for infantry use?

The M240 is the current USA MG, along with the SAW, but after humping the 22 lbs ish M60 around during my Army days, I feel for the guys that have to lug a 28 ish pound 240 around.  It was a great coax MG for M1 and M2's, which is probably what it was originally designed for, then retro fitted for infantry use, and so the military wouldn't have to buy another MG when they retired the M60.  Now there's a lightweight version that's more the M60 weight, so maybe that's the optimal set up.

I loved the M60's I fired, though like most things in the Army, they were kept way too long with way too little maintenance.  If you got a 60 that was in good shape, it would run fine with just a little amount of TLC, and correct assembly (there's one part that you can install backwards, been too long to renumber what it was, but that was a poor design).  The weight for a MG was tolerable if you were young and strong, and you could use it in a dynamic role - would have been better with a drum to hold rounds in to avoid having to duck tape the cardboard boxes to the side of the feed tray, but you do what you have to to Charlie Mike.   I've read some people didn't like the feed strength of the belts and needed more grab there.    I'd have loved to have had the lighter weigh A3 version I believe with the front grip, ala Rambo style.

The SAW seems to be a love it or hate it MG.  Certainly lightweight and handy enough to use in a full dynamic assault role, and the magazine aspect is a great idea though it often didn't work with crappy USGI mags that barely worked in M16's.  But 5.56mm is light for a MG, and doesn't give you the ability to own the battlefield like a full 30 cal MG does, turning cover into mere concealment.

What else is out there?  The RPK is similar to the SAW's role, maybe even worse as you can't change the barrel and are limited to using drums.  Not familiar with full 30 cal Russian MG's - any good or not?

What about German MG's?  They more or less invented that weapon and it's role, and used it very well in both World Wars.  What's their current MG for the 328 men that they have as actual soldiers in their military?
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 12:10:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Hermans use the mg3, essentially an mg42 in 308
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 1:47:12 AM EDT
[#2]
I love the M60!
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 1:55:59 AM EDT
[#3]
M60 is garbage. It never should have been chosen over the MAG-58 as evidenced by the fact that after the last M60 has beaten itself to death the M240 will still be pumping lead.

I shot a norwegian MG3. I think it's probably the best gpmg
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 5:24:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 7:14:18 AM EDT
[#5]
FPNI

M240 began service in the US as a tank-mounted MG. Only later was it adapted for use by groundpounders.
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 11:22:40 AM EDT
[#6]
MK48

Link Posted: 12/20/2018 11:29:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 12:13:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 12/21/2018 7:15:07 AM EDT
[#9]
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Really want one of these.
Link Posted: 12/21/2018 8:22:39 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
I love the M60!
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You must be right handed.
Link Posted: 12/21/2018 12:07:10 PM EDT
[#11]
M240 is the best MG ever fielded.

I never had to carry one any further than the Motorpool, but if you appreciate reliability, there is no equal.
Link Posted: 12/21/2018 3:47:05 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
M240 is the best MG ever fielded.

I never had to carry one any further than the Motorpool, but if you appreciate reliability, there is no equal.
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I always really enjoyed them when fired from the turret.  They're a bit of a pig to hump and 7.62 ammo weighs alot.

I would have liked to try the Barret lightweight versions.
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 7:31:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Vehicle mounted, I'm partial to that modified 1861 gun.


For dismounted and durability there's the modified M1918 BAR Type D with the MG42 feed system known as the M240/MAG58.

CD
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 11:10:58 AM EDT
[#14]
What about the PKM? Opinions?
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 11:52:49 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
What about the PKM? Opinions?
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Light, reliable, but non desigrating linked belt, not as stable for long range.

CD
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 12:41:47 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Vehicle mounted, I'm partial to that modified 1861 gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIRd1KGqWKo

For dismounted and durability there's the modified M1918 BAR Type D with the MG42 feed system known as the M240/MAG58.

CD
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Ha, well done.
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 1:31:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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Very much like the SAW, they’re great when new but don’t retain reliability for very long.
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 11:29:59 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

Very much like the SAW, they’re great when new but don’t retain reliability for very long.
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Yeah I have heard they wear out quickly due to lighter weight frame and parts. Wouldn't be an issue for the military with unlimited budget, not great for a civilian who has to pay out of pocket to keep the thing running. Really with there were transferable versions available.
Link Posted: 1/6/2019 8:26:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yeah I have heard they wear out quickly due to lighter weight frame and parts. Wouldn't be an issue for the military with unlimited budget, not great for a civilian who has to pay out of pocket to keep the thing running. Really with there were transferable versions available.
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Quite the opposite...the mil doesn’t get rid of anything. And incompetent armorers often ignore Soldiers who tell them weapons have issues. A good armored is worth his weight in gold.
Link Posted: 1/7/2019 12:48:38 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

Quite the opposite...the mil doesn’t get rid of anything. And incompetent armorers often ignore Soldiers who tell them weapons have issues. A good armored is worth his weight in gold.
View Quote
Only Mk48s CONUS in the Army are with the Rangers,- OCONUS its with other SF units.  They have their 91Fs but there is a SOF-MST contractor who's sole job is to keep SOF guns up.  I have zero deadlined Mk48s in Afghanistan.  Being lighter, they do were out faster and have other issues.  That's why the Army went back to the M240 as it was more rugged over the shot apart M60s.  Heck in 2008 I used a Colt 1916 dated M1911 in Baghdad.

CD
Link Posted: 1/7/2019 1:00:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Only Mk48s CONUS in the Army are with the Rangers,- OCONUS its with other SF units.  They have their 91Fs but there is a SOF-MST contractor who's sole job is to keep SOF guns up.  I have zero deadlined Mk48s in Afghanistan.  Being lighter, they do were out faster and have other issues.  That's why the Army went back to the M240 as it was more rugged over the shot apart M60s.  Heck in 2008 I used a Colt 1916 dated M1911 in Baghdad.

CD
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Ours were TPE obviously. I’m partial to the “nearly as light” 240L.
Link Posted: 1/8/2019 12:18:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have zero deadlined Mk48s in Afghanistan.  Being lighter, they do were out faster and have other issues.
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@Combat_Diver

What issues have you seen? What wears out first?
Is there anything specific you would do for PM if you personally owned a Mk48?
Can they usually be repaired instead of deadlined?
Link Posted: 1/8/2019 12:28:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@Combat_Diver

What issues have you seen? What wears out first?
Is there anything specific you would do for PM if you personally owned a Mk48?
Can they usually be repaired instead of deadlined?
View Quote
Biggest issue is broken bolts and shot out barrels.  Don't think you're going to be rolling vehicles over on top of them.

CD
Link Posted: 1/10/2019 10:18:05 PM EDT
[#24]
The M60E6 is a strong contender.  Most pieces of the pig have been redesigned or constructed with upgraded materials to produce a much better gun.

I was surprised to hear the Danish Army had adopted the E6 to replace their MG3s.  Did you ever think a European country would ever adopt a 60 year old American designed machine gun?  I certainly didn't.  But in testing against HK21s and all other competitors, it was superior in all the various criteria, weight, mean rounds between failure, ergonomics, etc.

Part of the problem with the M60 over its service life was the albatross of the DOD procurement system it had to live with.  Once that gun was designed and in production, that is what Uncle Sam was willing to buy.  You want to change some small part to make it more reliable?  No, the procedure to effect a part change will take years to work its way through the system.

But once the U.S. Government quit buying M60s and U.S. Ordnance looked at the export market as their customer base, they were no longer constrained from making sweeping changes and improvements to the platform.  I was told that some of the most effective changes were moving to modern steels and different heat treats.  Cam surfaces on barrel extensions, bolts, and op-rods that would prematurely peen and require stoning or replacement now last much longer than previous parts.  Lots of billet aluminum parts also added strength while dropping weight, making it about 1/3 less heavy than the M240.

I'm more of a WWII through Vietnam collector and don't even have a basic M60, let alone one of these.  But I sure would like to have one.  Well, right after I get a Mk23 Stoner

US Ordnance M60E6 Full Auto 308 Review: Not Your Dad's Pig! (HD)
Link Posted: 1/13/2019 10:41:47 AM EDT
[#25]
UK59, or moreso VZ52/57 (same thing in x39 or x45; the x54r UK59 is a bit of a handful) has got to be a contender.  Belt fed BREN with lots of dust covers and a much lighter forward-locking receiver.  Excellent 50-round mounted belt-box design.  Slick tripod configurable for every shooting position.  Impossible to crush fingers in the top cover.  Pistol grip is used as the non-reciprocating charging handle so there is not big bar sticking out.  FCG has a "reverse disconnector" that keeps the gun firing until the trigger is fully released (no death grip required)

Killed by communist mismanagement.
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