Looking to find a source of ammo for both guns, range stuff that will function and not do any damage. New manufactured or good surplus. Not necessary the cheapest, but it is amazing how many people want to shoot these guys. I'm gonna go broke.

Going to reload eventually, but baby it's cold outside and I ain't feeling it.

Thank you's.

As long as both rifles are in spec and especially the springs are not worn...

Shoot any off the shelf ammo all day long no worries.

Wrong!  Standard 30-06 hunting ammo is not suitable for the M1 Garand and will, over time, bend the op rod as it's pressure curve is too high. Look at Winchester Whitebox 147grn 30-06 ammo for instance.  It's rated at 3,020fps which is too high pressure for the M1 Garand.  What you need is ammo loaded to M2 Ball specs for the M1 Garand.

PPU sells 30-06 ammo for the M1 Garand that's surprisingly good ammo. Target Sports has a 500rd ammo can full for $320 including shipping that's a good price  HERE.

Reloads loaded to M1 specs only.

If you can find it, the Greek stuff they used to sell at CMP.

The PPU stuff also works well in my Garands, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

no I'm not...unfortunately yo have fallen into the high muzzle velocity equals high operating pressure...and thats not necessarily true..

Recent testing has shown that commercial ammo has similar port pressure as HXP 69 M2 ball...so if HXP is safe...so is the commercial ammo...

This video explains it rather well..

https://youtu.be/UOSdswZHJUc

Which is what exactly?

Thank you gentlemen.

I knew there was some controversy over bullet weight and pressure. I don't plan on hunting or using any heavy loads in either of these guns.

As I mentioned above, these are just range toys for now. They are very popular at the range, everyone wants to shoot them, I'm just looking for something cheaper to shoot thru them, without using steel case... or charging a fee.

What I find locally is Federal AE 308 150gn @ around 2820fps. Seems to work fine, but it's $1+ a shot. There are others similarly spec and priced, haven't found any Winchester WB local.

I'll probably buy bulk (500) until I can get to the loading bench. Just looking to save some coin until then. Ammoman has pretty good deals on ( 7.62x51MM LAKE CITY 149 GRAIN FMJ M80 (500 ROUNDS) $259). Is this good ammo for the M1a?

Still looking for bulk M1 stuff.

yup just about any ammo is good for the M14.

Occasionally you can catch closeouts at walmart on 30-06...keep our eyes open there.

OP... as you can tell from responses, there lots of opinions about what to shoot in the Garand. In case you haven’t yet seen the info on gas screw porting, here’s a link to some actual measured pressure data for several off-the-shelf 30-06 ammo offerings.

http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

Bottom line is if you want to shoot off-the-shelf ammo, an inexpensive porting device/plug, fixed or adjustable, is an option to give some level of assurance that your op rod will not be damaged. The device tested in the article is just one of several that are available. I’m not calling out anyone’s claims one way or the other; just offering additional reading material for your consideration.

Enjoy !!

Sellier and Bellot makes Garand-rated ammo. Midway has it for a good price, 20 or 400 rd qty's. I've bought this twice so far, when they had them in 200 rd cans and I've had no problems with the ammo or it functioning in my M1 or causing any damage. Not sure if they still do this, but the cans i bought also included 5 en blocs as well. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1777318110/sellier-and-bellot-ammunition-30-06-springfield-m1-garand-150-grain-full-metal-jacket

Before I started reloading my own, I bought and shot a lot of the PPU Garand ammo.  I was very happy with it and the brass has been great for reloads.  I cannot speak for the M1A.

SG Ammo has Privi .30-06 loaded to M2 ball specs for 299 per 500 rds, and it comes in a .50 ammo can. Works great in my M-1.

It's not just the operating rod that you can damage.  Over pressure in the gas system is hard on other parts as well.  The op rod is slamming the bolt back into the receiver, the operating rod spring is being abused, etc., etc.

Stick with ammo using bullet weights/powders meant for the M1 gas system pressure limits or get an adjustable gas plug.  I put a Schuster on mine (and I don't even shoot factory/commercial ammo - but I could if I wanted to) but as stated in a previous post, there are other brands/types available.

Having personally broken/cracked an M1A operating rod (twice - had it rewelded and it broke again, near the original crack/repair) using 180 grain match bullets and a slow burning powder, I won't be doing that with the replacement operating rod.

Since commercial ammo is garand safe in a properly functioning and in spec rifle no aftermarket items are needed.

You using the wrong powder for your M1A isn't the rifles fault..it's poor reloading practice.

I bought an adjustable gas plug for my Garand, totally worth it.

For my Garand. I found a bunch of the Greek stuff about 3 years ago. I’ve moved to the S&B stuff now.

For my M1A I’ve gone to whatever surplus I can get my hands on. I also use the PMC 147gr as I have a lot of that. I run it during 3-gun matches in my M&P-10.

Thank you all for the input, very helpful.

I'm saying slow burning powders are not good for the design of the gas system.

I'm also saying no one that makes factory commercial ammo sends me letters to tell me what powders they use to load the commercial ammo.

A bolt action rifle doesn't care about powder burn rate.

Most civilian semi-auto deer rifles will never fire enough ammo to care about the powder burn rate.

You are welcome to use what ever commercial ammo you want to use in yours.

The very fact that some ammo/bullet/powder companies have separate sections for reloading for M1 Garands and M1A rifles in their manuals/reloading pages should tell you it is enough of an issue that they felt it was worth the time/effort to develop, tabulate and communicate what they recommend if you use their bullets/powder to reload for an M1/M1A rifle.  If it didn't matter, they wouldn't waste the time/money/bullets/powder/paper to say it does matter.

There may very well be some bullet weights, loaded by some companies, that will always, every time without fail use the correct powders to load their ammo.  But the only way to be sure is to buy ammo made for these rifles or reload your own.

How often do you read about these rifles blowing up with GI surplus ammo?  Vs. commercial ammo or reloads?

Somebody, a few years ago, did a pretty thorough study of commercial ammo and measured gas port pressures with different brand/bullet weights and there was some of it, tested at that time, that was okay for the M1 Garand.  A lot of it wasn't.  I think I saw that here, but I can't find it now, I've looked a couple times.  Lots of charts showing the pressures, if I remember correctly.

I see a previous poster has added a link to that study.  Maybe I don't understand it, but it looks like several brands/bullet weight exceed the pressures/impulses from GI ammo (made for the M1 rifle/gas system.)

That video is opinion based. Unless you have pressure testing equipment attached to the rifle's port to collect PSI & gas volume data you can't make any claims regarding whether the ammo is safe or not.

A simplier method and easier to reference would be to make 49 grains of medium burn rate powder the maximum charge weight period.

IMR-4895 data is a perfect example:

147 grain ball bullets 47.0 - 49.0 grains
168 grain match 45.0 to 47.0 grains
175 grain match 44.5 - 46.0 grains

Substituting IMR-4064, but using the same maximums and you won't get into issues. Using similar powders from AA-4064, AA-4895, H4895, VihtaVuori N150 keeping the maximums under my listed charges will not harm your rifle.

M1 Garand parts aren't as common or as cheap as they once were. Nobody is going to start making new ones. Protect your investment or expect to pay dearly to replace broken parts.

No opinion...its based on real world factual testing...with the data to support the claims....

You can buy a special plug that allows the excess gas to escape. The worry of the op rod bending is due to the pressure on the op rod. The rifle itself will shoot any .30-06 round safely. There's nothing to regulate the gas coming on the op rod.

This is about the third topic I seen on this very topic here. It's amazing that it only covers the M1 Garand but the M1A has similar problems with the op rod being too violent for modern ammo. However, Springfield and the rest of the gang insist that you shoot whatever the heck you want without worry. The entire "best practices" for the M1 Garand comes from oral traditions. One person says it and somehow it is true.

The truth is I never seen a M1 Garand with a bent op rod. Never heard of it. Never seen any pictures. It's sort of like hearing stories about how someone in NYC saw a baby pigeon nest. It's stuff made of legends. Nobody seen it, only heard about it so it must be true right? I mean pigeons gotta come from baby pigeons right? Just like how there got to be a bent op rod somewhere!

No pressure or gas volume data that I could see. True high speed cameras need to be used to base anything off bolt speed.

In 1994, on the eve of the Clinton era AWB, I attended a NRA tournament and witnessed the rear two+ inches of a M1-A break off of a guy's reveiver.

When asked about his loads he was a full 1.5 grains higher than the NRA's listed maximum for Lake City brass. H4895 with 168 SMK's

If 1.5 grains of the powder these rifles were designed around can cause the op-rod to hammer the receiver hard enough to break it, I suspect higher powder charges of slower burning powders would do it quicker.

Everyone is free to accept or reject information offered on the web. I'm going to continue to heed the warnings of the men who's guidance and patience were given freely to me in the early 1980's, and the NRA publications that backed them up.

The data provided in the video shows that the port pressure of HXP and commercial ammo is basically the same...its also included in the charts.

It also shows the velocities of various milspec rounds and how they can vary as well.

He's reloading though. That's drastically different from buying commercial loads. No telling what the heck he did. Nobody wants to admit fault with their reloads yet any manufacture won't guarantee their firearms with reloads. There's nothing in a M1A or M1 Garand that guarantees any sort of reloads as with any firearm out there. You can blow up a M1a just as well as a AR15 if you reload wrong. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use commercial loads as it doesn't have anything to do with it.

There's nothing wrong with using commercial loads in a M1a or M1 Garand. If you're ultra paranoid, you can simply buy a vented plug. The M1a has a pre-drilled plug that you can buy and using commercial ammo to your delight.

But I haven't really seen people get into the commercial loads argument with the M1A. Most people who buy m1a tend to buy a springfield armory build of it and Springfield Armory guarantees their rifles to shoot any commercial loads. Even Fulton Armory shoots commercial loads out of their rifles, even the mighty garand. They guarantee some MOA with some commercial match ammo with their rifles.

Personally I think most people get their M1 Garands from CMP and it doesn't exactly come with any sort of instructions and no factory built parts in it except what was sent to the government or slapped together. You'll see a lot more oral traditions passed on as oppose to anything factual.

I think we can all agree that M2 ball ammo by PPU is at least cheaper than a box of Winchester Super X

That’s enough for me. If I ever did hunt I would probably use a Schuster gas plug. Old wives tales and all.

I have heard both sides for years and have not ever seen a “bent” op rod. I just don’t wanna tear mine up. You can get less felt recoil with the plugs

Okay, I'll add a final comment and then I'm done with this thread ....

I know several guys who hunt deer and hogs with their M1 Garands. Even a few coyotes have fallen to the old M1.

A couple, like me, have a 16" Mini-G 'carbine' which MUST run the Schuster adj. gas plug, but I'm talking here about the ones who hunt with 'full-size' Garands.

These guys simply remove the G.I. plug and install an adjustable plug which they've previously tuned before deer season for their specific '06 'hunting' ammo. Then they go to the range and check/verify their rifle's zero with that ammo. Generally that's done at 100-yds, as these guys typically hunt from a tree stand.

Once their tag(s) are filled and hunting season is over, they remove the adj. plug and re-install the G.I. plug.

Then they return to the range and verify zero with surplus M2 ball ammo (like Greek HXP), or the commercial equivalent (like PPU), or a handloaded equivalent.  Now they're ready for their club's 'Vintage' matches or CMP/JCG matches, or just general plinking and practice, or 'Get-off-my-lawn!' moments.

Easy-peasy.

What about M1's in .308?  Any issues using any type of ammo, or since the M1 was designed for the 30/06 round, which is 200 fps faster than 308, can the M1's system handle any 308 round you can throw at it?

No issues using commercial ammo in either 308 or 30-06.

308/7.62 usually less so since they are generally undergassed compared to 30-06.

Standard M2 Ball is what is recommended

If you are wanting AP M2 (Black Tip) or Tracer Specialty Rounds I have some listed in the EE

Not this junk video again....lol

I own 5 M1s, and stick to Garand safe ammo - M2 ball.

I took the CMP Advanced Maintenance Class last spring and the lead armorer for the CMP Custom Shop, who also was the lead instructor for the course, said in no uncertain terms that if you want to shoot commercial ammo that is not designed specifically for the M1 that you should use an adjustable gas plug. He indicated a preference for the Schuster adjustable gas plug.

I'll not claim to be an expert on M1s but after reading books sourced through CMP and Fulton (Duff, Kuleck, Kuhnhausen, etc.) taking the AMC at the CMP, and spending hours on the CMP M1 forum, I would not trust those videos posted above, and would recommend sticking to M2 ball.

That said, it's a free country. Shoot all the hot, commercial ammo you wish.

Says the guy who kept posting the same shitty video over and over and over in a previous thread about Garand ammo. To quote a line from the greatest Christmas movie of all time; "Why don't you wake up and smell what you're shoveling?"

Yeah ...facts based on actual real world testing....

What are you shoveling?

What video would you trust?

Why limit yourself to M2 ball... plenty of better options out there.

Funny how your "facts" don't line up with video evidence to the contrary and therefore that evidence is "junk".

I am currently shoveling through your bullshit.

Please show video evidence that contradicts the facts I presented...

https://www.sgammo.com/product/30-06-ammo/200-round-case-30-06-springfield-150-grain-fmj-ammo-optimized-m1-garand-rifle-prv

So you are the same Jeremy that posted the video...…………………..So you are quoting your self????  In third person?  
Interesting.

So you are using bolt speed to examine this question and Garand gear is using port pressures measured with proper gages.
What is wrong with Garand gear's results if anything?

I trust what I've read in the books I referenced and what I've learned from CMP. M2 ball does just what I need it to do.

Again, to each his own. Shoot whatever you like. Makes no difference to me.

I'm just glad there are people shooting Garands.