Best Way to Acquire / Have an SBS?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best Way to Acquire / Have an SBS?

Posted: 8/29/2018 10:03:55 AM EDT

I really want a short shotgun. I have a no-nonsense Mossberg 500 tactical sitting around & a Rem 870 Express that's nothing to write home about. Both are longer than I want my shortest shotgun to be.

I can afford to buy something nicer than the above grade of stuff, but am unsure if going to an off the shelf 14" something would be appreciably shorter in my hands or if I'd be better off buying something longer & having it cut down & tax stamped.

Any thoughts / recs would be appreciated!

Posted: 8/29/2018 10:06:07 AM EDT

[#1]

Apply for stamp. Cut barrel with pipe cutter, put grease on the barrel and the rollers won't leave a mark. Deburr. Drill and tap barrel and reinstall the sight. It should be a threaded bead on that model.

Posted: 8/29/2018 1:04:26 PM EDT

[#2]

It all starts with the stamp; apply for that and you’ll have a year to figure out what you’re going to do to/with the barrel once approved.

Posted: 8/29/2018 1:43:13 PM EDT

[#3]

I think the simplest/ fastest way now is to buy a 500 or 870 "Shockwave" Pay tax and add stock.

F1 times are 85 days from check cashed to approval while F4 are 185 or so.

As far as the NFA process the easiest way is the Silencer Shop Form 1 Service.

Posted: 8/29/2018 2:45:37 PM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:
It all starts with the stamp; apply for that and you’ll have a year to figure out what you’re going to do to/with the barrel once approved.

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Do you not have to tell them what you want to do with the barrel when you file the forms / buy the stamp?

Posted: 8/29/2018 3:02:11 PM EDT

[#5]

Buy a factory SBS.....

same 200.00 tax

won't have to engrave your personal info on the gun

increased resale value if you ever decide to sell

Posted: 8/29/2018 3:07:01 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:

Do you not have to tell them what you want to do with the barrel when you file the forms / buy the stamp?

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On the form you will have to let them know the barrel length.

The SS Form 1 service makes all of this supper easy. Takes a multi page form and reduces it down to 6 questions.

Just a FYI if you dont mind the wait Factory SBS can be bought for around $~~475~~ $454.00+ $200 NFA tax. Just will take longer than making one yourself which is a Form 1.

Posted: 8/29/2018 3:08:41 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Buy a factory SBS.....

same 200.00 tax

won't have to engrave your personal info on the gun

increased resale value if you ever decide to sell

View Quote

You still lose the $200 tax, so math is against you. Engrave the barrel if that is some sort of weird concern.

Posted: 8/29/2018 3:14:06 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:

You still lose the $200 tax, so math is against you. Engrave the barrel if that is some sort of weird concern.

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My point was that a factory SBS will hold its value better than a F1'd gun......the increased initial cost would be offset by the cost of engraving a F1 gun and its depreciation....

every gun eventually gets sold

Posted: 8/29/2018 4:00:12 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think the simplest/ fastest way now is to buy a 500 or 870 "Shockwave" Pay tax and add stock.

View Quote

Or F1 an existing gun, and buy a short factory or aftermarket barrel once approved.

Posted: 8/29/2018 4:34:27 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:
My point was that a factory SBS will hold its value better than a F1'd gun...

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This is true.
I don't know if the premium of a factory SBS will always be greater than the depreciation value however. Used 870's are extremely common and inexpensive, especially if you already own a viable candidate.

14" is noticeably handier than 18" and you still have room for a +1 underneath, on the 870.

Posted: 8/29/2018 6:53:46 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:

Or F1 an existing gun, and buy a short factory or aftermarket barrel once approved.

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That would be really easy on the 870 and 500 just as easy as adding a stock. Have you priced SBS barrels lately they are pretty high. I couldn’t find a 12.5” 870 Barrel for a reasonable price.

Posted: 8/29/2018 7:45:12 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

My point was that a factory SBS will hold its value better than a F1'd gun......the increased initial cost would be offset by the cost of engraving a F1 gun and its depreciation....

every gun eventually gets sold

View Quote

Maybe, but not by me so I don’t care.

Never understood the aversion to engraving.

How about makes it worth lesscto a criminal and easier to recover.

Posted: 8/29/2018 10:51:45 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted: Have you priced SBS barrels lately they are pretty high. I couldn’t find a 12.5” 870 Barrel for a reasonable price.

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I bought mine from AI&P Tactical where they have factory 14" barrels listed starting at $166. Sure, it's not an $89 aftermarket barrel. But for a factory tube, I thought that was pretty reasonable.

That's roughly half the cost of a Shockwave, and can be used on the gun the OP already owns, once the F1 is approved.

Posted: 8/30/2018 7:30:42 AM EDT

[#14]

Buy a Shockwave.

File a Form 1.

When it's approved put your stock of choice on it.

Posted: 9/13/2018 11:51:15 AM EDT

[#15]

So to keep me straight..... If I wanted to either cut down the barrel of my existing 870 or 500 (or use a to be purchased shorty barrel) all that's needed is an approved Form 1?

Other questions for clarification on my end if you guys :

How precise do you have to be with Mr ATF on this stuff? Say if I said I said to Mr ATF I want approval for an SBS with a 12" barrel end config (which I planned to cut down an existing barrell to get the 12" #) but later ended up purchasing a barrel that was a diff length (say 12.5" for argument's sake), would that blow up the approved Form 1 that was originally stated as a 12" final barrel config?

Same goes for stocks, if you're applying to make an SBS does what kind of stock you have on it at any given time matter at all?

Posted: 9/13/2018 7:15:25 PM EDT

[#16]

Register the weapon of choice(via form-1) in the configuration you will most likely use it in. If you decide to change it up, go for it.

Posted: 9/14/2018 5:38:04 AM EDT

[#17]

On a shotgun you already own the least expensive route is to form-1, and DIY cut and affix new sight. Its not that hard to do a decent job yourself with basic tools and methods offered on the web.

Posted: 9/14/2018 2:33:43 PM EDT

[#18]

Don't forget to engrave it . . .

Posted: 9/16/2018 9:18:56 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
So to keep me straight..... If I wanted to either cut down the barrel of my existing 870 or 500 (or use a to be purchased shorty barrel) all that's needed is an approved Form 1?

Other questions for clarification on my end if you guys :

How precise do you have to be with Mr ATF on this stuff? Say if I said I said to Mr ATF I want approval for an SBS with a 12" barrel end config (which I planned to cut down an existing barrell to get the 12" #) but later ended up purchasing a barrel that was a diff length (say 12.5" for argument's sake), would that blow up the approved Form 1 that was originally stated as a 12" final barrel config?

Same goes for stocks, if you're applying to make an SBS does what kind of stock you have on it at any given time matter at all?

View Quote

That is correct. Complete the Form 1 in triplicate, if you do it on the PDF version it will transfer the information to the various forms since they aren't exactly the same. The one for the ATF has blanks for card information, while the one coming back does not. The one for the CLEO does not have photos and some other stuff. Regardless, two go to the ATF, one goes to CLEO for notification. Complete two fingerprint cards. Get two photos 2"x2" and place it on the two copies going to the ATF. Include a check, MO or card number for the $200.00. Mail it off to Atlanta. Wait about 90 days(right now) and you'll get the second copy of the Form 1 back with the blueish green stamp. Assemble the SBS/SBR/Suppressor.

No, changes do not nullify the F1 at all. You can notify the ATF of changes, but from what I've always hear they really do not give a shit and the notifications are so low priority they may or may not respond.

On stuff like an 870, 500, Ar-15 and so on where changing barrel lengths takes all of 5 minutes, I wouldn't worry too much. If you sell or transfer the weapon and it isn't the same configuration and you're worried about the change then you can always change it back or send in the letter.

Posted: 9/16/2018 9:48:12 AM EDT

[#20]

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Quoted:

No, changes do not nullify the F1 at all. You can notify the ATF of changes, but from what I've always hear they really do not give a shit and the notifications are so low priority they may or may not respond.

On stuff like an 870, 500, Ar-15 and so on where changing barrel lengths takes all of 5 minutes, I wouldn't worry too much. If you sell or transfer the weapon and it isn't the same configuration and you're worried about the change then you can always change it back or send in the letter.

View Quote

Appreciate the above.

Searched around & didn't really find the answer to my question about changing barrel length &/or overall reported length of the SBS AFTER having received Form 1 approval from the man.

Posted: 9/16/2018 4:24:44 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Appreciate the above.

Searched around & didn't really find the answer to my question about changing barrel length &/or overall reported length of the SBS AFTER having received Form 1 approval from the man.

View Quote

I think the only stuff they truly care about are permanent and non-reversible configuration changes. Removing it from configuration and not wanting it registered anymore or it gets destroyed and is no longer in existence, that sort of thing. Just changing an upper or barrel for the afternoon isn't what the point is at all.

Posted: 9/17/2018 8:29:19 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
Buy a factory SBS.....

same 200.00 tax

won't have to engrave your personal info on the gun

increased resale value if you ever decide to sell

View Quote

This guy speaks the truth....

I've got a couple of SBS and a SBR and they are ALL factory guns. Not that I'm ever going to sell, but I don't want to have to market a Polycop NFA Trust gun. Same tax and you don't have to jack with engraving, shipping and such.

Posted: 9/20/2018 11:44:52 PM EDT

[#23]

Just so you know you can only cut a 500 to 16 inches without moving the barrel lug.
That's why the shockwave is made on a 590.

I have a police 870 trade in that came with a 14 inch barrel.
Had a cylinder barrel cut to 12 inches and choked. My Salvo is still pending.

Whatever you do a SBS is fun th shoot.

Posted: 9/21/2018 1:51:47 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think the only stuff they truly care about are permanent and non-reversible configuration changes. Removing it from configuration and not wanting it registered anymore or it gets destroyed and is no longer in existence, that sort of thing. Just changing an upper or barrel for the afternoon isn't what the point is at all.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Appreciate the above.

Searched around & didn't really find the answer to my question about changing barrel length &/or overall reported length of the SBS AFTER having received Form 1 approval from the man.

I think the only stuff they truly care about are permanent and non-reversible configuration changes. Removing it from configuration and not wanting it registered anymore or it gets destroyed and is no longer in existence, that sort of thing. Just changing an upper or barrel for the afternoon isn't what the point is at all.

You’re best off NOT notifying the ATF of a change in barrel length, and here’s why:

Let’s say you notify the ATF that you’re changing the 14” barrel to a 12” barrel. The ATF will update their registry to reflect the 12” barrel. If you ever decide to sell the shotgun, you as the transferrer will likely just copy the same information directly from your previous Form 1 to a new Form 4. If you inadvertently put 14” barrel length on the Form 4 the ATF will kick it back because it will not match the 12” barrel length reflected in their registry. That will delay the approval process and likely piss off the new transferee.

It’s not a huge concern, but it is something to think about.

Posted: 9/21/2018 2:52:32 AM EDT

[#25]

SBS for serious HD or having fun?

if serious, then 14" is good and you can get factory SBS LE trade ins cheaper than a used one with 18" barrel, just keep an eye on the various classified boards.

for having fun, tax stamp for only 4" inch less seems like a waste of a stamp. Get an 870 with 4 round mag tube, cut back barrel to 12.5" after you get the form back.

if you want to be a super cool guy, get a Benelli M4 factory SBS, just be warned you will never be able to justify buying another HD shotgun because they will all pale in comparison.

you want to be the odd man out, get the Keltec SBS bullpup, either factory or form 1 the shorty they sell with the long barrel.

need a dog and halloween costume idea? get a side by side and chop it road warrior style.

these days with the shockwaves available and arm braces, not sure I would bother to SBS anything unless it was something just goofy short for range fun, see the Road Warrior special...

Posted: 9/23/2018 10:19:54 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

You're best off NOT notifying the ATF of a change in barrel length, and here's why:

Let's say you notify the ATF that you're changing the 14" barrel to a 12" barrel. The ATF will update their registry to reflect the 12" barrel. If you ever decide to sell the shotgun, you as the transferrer will likely just copy the same information directly from your previous Form 1 to a new Form 4. If you inadvertently put 14" barrel length on the Form 4 the ATF will kick it back because it will not match the 12" barrel length reflected in their registry. That will delay the approval process and likely piss off the new transferee.

It's not a huge concern, but it is something to think about.

View Quote

I'm not a rocket scientist at all....but I'm pretty sure all of this was previously covered in this discussion.

Posted: 9/24/2018 10:23:52 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm not a rocket scientist at all....but I'm pretty sure all of this was previously covered in this discussion.

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No, you’re definitely not a rocket scientist. A rocket scientist would’ve read my entire post before opening their mouth. The issue I brought to light was NOT previously covered by anyone in this discussion. Thanks for playing though

Posted: 9/25/2018 11:47:02 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
SBS for serious HD or having fun?

these days with the shockwaves available and arm braces, not sure I would bother to SBS anything unless it was something just goofy short for range fun, see the Road Warrior special...

View Quote

More just for having fun really! & get your point about shockwaves / Tac 14s w/arm braces etc.

Posted: 9/25/2018 12:33:58 PM EDT

[#29]

Auto - buy factory
Pump - Form 1

A used pump gun isn’t really worth much as they’re a dime a dozen. If you decide to get rid of it just part it out and stick the receiver in your safe.

Posted: 9/28/2018 1:57:50 AM EDT

[#30]

Buy a 590A1, file for a 14 inch barrel, have VangComp do the work. My 870P came out nice too.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best Way to Acquire / Have an SBS?

Armory » Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)

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