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Posted: 2/9/2021 10:50:47 PM EDT
Initially ran three different brands of ammo through it, 3 mags, ~1 in 8 fail to extract, case is left halfway in chamber, gun tries to feed next round with halfway extracted case still in chamber. No limp wrist to blame.

Very new looking (~98%, holster wear only)

No visible damage, gun is WELL cleaned and oiled, looks almost new.

It has some wear that shows it was shot a fair amount, but not abused.

Extractor appears fine, it's sharp and looks new, geometry appears correct.

First thing- replaced the extractor spring. New one was slightly bigger/longer. Seems to be a bit tighter.

Gun still failing to extract ~1/8.

Next- replaced the recoil spring with one from Numrich, new spring had fewer windings and slightly shorter.

Hard to tell the diameter of wire, but they are very, very close, if not the same. ~0.035"

Old spring is ~0.355 x 4.5" 26 windings.

New spring  ~0.375 x 4.2" 20 windings.

Put in new recoil spring.

New spring had FTE- 2 out of 2 shots, stopped there.

Put old spring back in, back to ~1/8 fail to extract, case left in chamber & next round jammed under the un-extracted round.

Time to look with magnifying glass.

There was some slight peening to the rear lower part of slide where it hits the hammer first, just under the rear of the firing pin. Took a fine, flat jeweler's file to it and GENTLY took off the peening and rounded it gently. I did not do a lot of strokes, took care to not alter the geometry, as it appears resistance of the hammer is critical in the timing, just like a 1911.

Slide is still VERY hard to rack (with hammer down). I'm assuming that is normal.

Attachment Attached File


Locking block appears good, no peening/mushrooming noted on the wear surfaces, no cracks noted.

Some wear on the right side of barrel.

Attachment Attached File


Gun is very clean (I cleaned it thoroughly, before shooting and inbetween, even though it already was clean) and oiled.

Chamber is clean, appears to be reamed correctly (fired cases have the slightest amount of wiggle, so I don't think it's too tight).

As an act of desperation I fired 8 +p handloads, kicked like a mule, web of hand was stinging... (124gr xtp + 6.5gr 800x) 800x is a very slow burning powder, good for safe +p loads, similar to 357sig power levels.

Function was 100%, and it was ejecting cased about as far as an AK-47/SKS.

Only ran 8 rounds through it, but ejection awesomer. Previous ejection was only going ~5 feet max, these were going 15 feet.

But, after cleaning it, a bunch... and busting out the 3.5x eye glasses, found this odd pattern in the chamber.

Looks like the machinist was a marine.

Attachment Attached File


One of the eight +p handloads ruptured (non-catastophic). I didn't find the odd carbon deposit in the chamber until AFTER I had already smashed the ruptured casing with a hammer. But it appears to match exactly.

Attachment Attached File


Carbon deposit in chamber does not want to come off with a normal 357 bronze brush.



At this point, I'm wondering if the chamber has a weird defect.

I can't really feel anything using a paperclip to feel the chamber. But it's definitely carbon deposit. I'm thinking the chamber has a bulge and the casing is grabbing the bulge as it tries to extract, but it's holding so tight the extractor slips off.

Time to buy a new barrel?



The person I'm doin this for is not going to be happy about it, they bought this gun cause it was "cheap". I already asked them if they wanted more mags ~$50 each (while I was buying springs), they said "no".
Link Posted: 2/9/2021 11:18:34 PM EDT
+p ammo should not be used in that old of pistol.

SAAMI specs take in account older guns limitations.

+p and +p+ is only meant for "modern" pistols.

Add to that old recoil springs... the hot loads will eventually beat up the old guns.

The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is set at 241.32 MPa (35,001 psi) piezo pressure.

The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum +P is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi) piezo pressure.
Link Posted: 2/9/2021 11:40:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
+p ammo should not be used in that old of pistol.

SAAMI specs take in account older guns limitations.

+p and +p+ is only meant for "modern" pistols.

Add to that old recoil springs... the hot loads will eventually beat up the old guns.

The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is set at 241.32 MPa (35,001 psi) piezo pressure.

The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum +P is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi) piezo pressure.
View Quote


That's why I want to fix it the right way, not shoot +p(+?) through it as a "fix".

I've read the locking blocks are a weak link too, and I don't want to break it.

I'm wondering if that chamber discoloration (carbon deposit?) is highlighting a bulged or improperly cut chamber.

Impossible to say how many rounds it's had though it, but the wear marks show it has had a fair amount use, at least.

Wonder if it had a bunch of SMG ammo put through it, back in the "old" country, and the chamber got stretched?

I'm hoping there isn't something I'm missing here, before I go buying a new barrel $$$.

Locking blocks are only ~$65 at whatacountry, that would be the cheaper method, but I couldn't see any damage to the locking block.
Link Posted: 2/22/2021 12:26:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2021 12:44:05 AM EDT by CherokeeRose]
Got a new barrel/locking block in, 12 rounds thought it, fail to extract 2 times with normal hardball.

At this point I'm thinking the only solution is to file on the lower rear of the slide, under the firing pin, where the hammer/slide interface is.

Same place as the 1911 firing pin stop.

Since the gun is almost impossible to cycle with the hammer down,

I'm thinking I'll round that area off just like the 1911 had to be radiused to cycle with non- +p ammo.

My BIL (6'4" ~250lbs Texan, linebacker in college) thought it was impossible to cycle with the hammer down, but I put the force on it and it cycled, guess he's not as tough as he thinks...

Maybe the factory missed a machining/filing step on this one?
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 3:35:10 AM EDT
Still jamming with new barrel/locking block.

New ejector spring.

Only thing left is to file on slide, below firing pin.

Some more.

Link Posted: 2/26/2021 11:34:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2021 11:35:42 AM EDT by kanewtervalve]
Any chance the mag is riding too high?
Limp wristing?
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 1:51:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2021 1:53:13 PM EDT by Elwood_Blues]
Any chance the locking block is dragging on the frame bevel?

I bought a new locking block that is a hair deeper than the old one, and I could NOT retract the slide with the block in place.  Magic marker scrapes confirmed it.  I will attack that bevel in the frame with my Armstrong mill when I have some time to deepen it and allow a bit of clearance.

ETA:  looking at your pics, I bought the exact same locking block as yourself.
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 1:26:29 AM EDT
I’d still be suspicious of the extractor/spring. I’d look hard at the ejector next. Does it eject with no magazine in it?
Link Posted: 3/11/2021 11:20:38 PM EDT
Replaced the extractor spring and made no difference, replaced the recoil spring, still doing it, replaced the barrel and locking block, it still does it.

I can look carefully at the magazine, but it's a factory mag, I doubt the mag is making contact.

I'm NOT limp wristing it.

The extractor looked fine, but I can buy another extractor for it too.

It seems like the extractor is losing grip on the rim, since it leaves the shell halfway in the chamber about once per magazine, randomly.

I really thought it was an extractor spring issue, as the extractor is nice and sharp, and doesn't look worn out.

The gun itself looks almost new.

The new recoil spring wasn't factory spec, but I tried it and it was still jamming with the old barrel, looks like maybe a CZ spring that's been cut down, it had fewer coils, was slightly larger OD and was slightly shorter.

The slide starts to move back and at some point the shell hangs up in the chamber and the slide keeps moving back but the shell stops before it's out all the way because the extractor looses grip?

Using the +p+ hand loads fixed it.

It ejects the normal ammo about 15 feet, +P+ loads send the empties about 25 feet, ejecting like a boss.

It's like there isn't enough back pressure on the shell with factory spec ammo?

I don't know, this is making me crazy trying to figure it out.

I'll order a new extractor next, but if that doesn't work I'm declaring it a +p+ only pistol.

Link Posted: 3/15/2021 5:14:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2021 5:15:18 PM EDT by kanewtervalve]
Does your extractor look just like this one:
Extractor
Just wondering if the length on the claw looked the same or the previous owner filed it down for some reason.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 1:02:12 PM EDT
Maybe a bigger hammer?

What you are doing is dangerous. That pistol should perform 100% with standard pressure ammo. Every handgun should.

Something may be binding between the link and barrel fit to cause your problem. The hammer spring may be too strong? With the hammer cocked the slide should glide on the frame with the magazine removed. No bumps, no jumps, no binding. It should reciprocate smoothly.

If the only time it's hard to cycle is with the hammer down (magazine removed) then the hammer or hammer spring become suspect. Are there any burrs on the hammer where it meets the slide? Are the pins that hold the hammer in the frame bent or the holes in the frame out of round? Does the hammer cock easily with your thumb? Can you see any damage to the fire control group on mating surfaces?

What do the magazine feed lips look like? Is there any interference when the slide is racked? Is it a factory magazine?



Link Posted: 3/18/2021 1:05:41 PM EDT
I would also use a well worn 9mm bronze brush and spin clean the chamber chucked in a power drill. It needs to be clean and shiny so you can see any imperfections.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:57:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
I would also use a well worn 9mm bronze brush and spin clean the chamber chucked in a power drill. It needs to be clean and shiny so you can see any imperfections.
View Quote


Thank you for those suggestions, I was wondering if it is normal for these pistols to be almost impossible to cock with the hammer down.

My sister showed for a few days, she wants the gun back, so I'm hoping to resolve this within a few days.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:58:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2021 11:07:36 AM EDT by CherokeeRose]
I'll take a good look at the hammer and strut and spring.

ETA, the extractor already in it was nice and sharp, that's why I didn't replace it, it looked brand new.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:06:15 AM EDT
So far  I only fired one magazine of the high power loads, they all ejected with aplomb, LOL, but I know that's not the solution.

I have three things I was planning to do, get a new magazine, replace the extractor, and finally if all else fails, polish the chamber with a dremmel felt tip and polishing rouge. The chamber doesn't look rough though. It's all nice and reflective.

I will double check the slide/magazine/hammer interface. I did notice some peening on the underside of the slide where the hammer makes initial contact, that's why I carefully hit it lightly with a file. I didn't think to check the hammer too. Will do that this afternoon.

I already ordered a new extractor, factory recoil spring, and magazine (the recoil spring I got from numerich was a cut down one from a different gun, and was shorter than the one in the gun, had fewer coils, and was slightly oversized in OD.

I hope there isn't a problem with the locking block interface in the frame/slide. That's a nightmare scenario.

The locking blocks are supposed to be the wear part though, and the one in it originally looked fine under close inspection.
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