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Posted: 5/23/2020 11:20:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/23/2020 11:22:49 PM EST by katzma]
Got my kit in. Here's some quick pics. From what I can see my lower, barrel nut, and bipod are all 2000, carrying handle is a 1993, mag is 1997, and bolt is 1986? Guess AR70 and AR70/90 bolts are the same.  Bcg was in its sealed drypac and dry as a bone but does look lightly used.  No cleaning kit in the grip.  Gas piston looks brand new with zero wear or carbon.  Bummed that the dust cover isnt ribbed.  Lite rust on all exposed metal.  Overall very happy with the kit.

Pics of the B&T picatinny mount i picked up.  Also searching for a Trijicon TA14 ACOG mount.

If anyone has a ribbed dust cover and wants to trade for a smooth one ill make it worth your while!





















































Link Posted: 5/24/2020 6:49:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 8:17:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Steel mag ? ( sure looks like it. )
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Correct. They are steel mags
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 8:21:52 AM EST
That rail is awesome (and is what should have been used in the first place)
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 9:24:42 AM EST
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Originally Posted By katzma:
Correct. They are steel mags
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Originally Posted By katzma:
Steel mag ? ( sure looks like it. )
Correct. They are steel mags


Looks like the same mags that come with the ARX-100.
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 11:05:46 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:


Looks like the same mags that come with the ARX-100.
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Probably are.  Are those steel or aluminum?
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 11:57:25 AM EST
how still has parts kits?

Is anyone selling recievers?
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 12:54:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ronin556:
how still has parts kits?

Is anyone selling recievers?
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Centerfire systems has kits and couple places on Gunbroker. Apex said there were 1000 kits available, they got 100, CFS got under 100 and a 3rd dealer got the rest. Don't know who the 3rd party is.

No receivers or anything yet since these have only been available for 2 weeks. But i imagine there will be some available in a month or two.
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 2:13:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/24/2020 2:16:41 PM EST by 556Cliff]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katzma:
Probably are.  Are those steel or aluminum?
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Originally Posted By katzma:
Originally Posted By 556Cliff:


Looks like the same mags that come with the ARX-100.
Probably are.  Are those steel or aluminum?


The Beretta ARX mags are steel. 3ACR_Scout has some pictures of them here. > Link.
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 5:42:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Good pics, in for your progress.

Steel mag ? ( sure looks like it. )

@SenselessPuma

@barnbwt
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Thanks for the heads up. Definitely interested to see if we can find someone to make us receivers for these things and watch this build progress. I would love to have Marcolmar build these things up like they did with the Cetme L.
Link Posted: 5/24/2020 6:21:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SenselessPuma:



Thanks for the heads up. Definitely interested to see if we can find someone to make us receivers for these things and watch this build progress. I would love to have Marcolmar build these things up like they did with the Cetme L.
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That would be nice but there were 14000+ L kits brought in and only 1000 AR70/90 kits brought in. Definitely won't be a large scale production stuff but there will be smaller shops/hobbiests that will make parts. Or at least plans to make your own
Link Posted: 5/25/2020 2:44:26 PM EST
For all we know that third dealer is someone who plans on offering builds. We can only hope.
Link Posted: 5/26/2020 8:56:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/26/2020 10:38:54 PM EST
Couple pics of the trunnion after removing the receiver pieces. Cold blued it after so it doesn't rust.  



Link Posted: 5/29/2020 8:49:26 PM EST
FWIW, Mark Serbu is doing a series on YT of piecing one together. Fired it with no upper on it
Link Posted: 5/29/2020 9:06:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jupiter7:
FWIW, Mark Serbu is doing a series on YT of piecing one together. Fired it with no upper on it
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Yup. Talked to him about them. Following his build on weaponsguild.  Plus he will have barrels available in a couple weeks. And possibly receivers and rails.
Link Posted: 5/29/2020 10:51:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2020 10:52:10 PM EST by 37F]
Numbers stated don't add up.  There are three different sellers on gunbroker that show inventory over 800 kits:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869672928

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869586299

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869654619


Real numbers of parts kits look to be in the thousands.  I reached out to Turbothis (Matt Yeamans) and he is too busy to take on the project.  He originally produced AR70 receivers.  To be honest, I am not a big fan of Mark Serbu, but if he is the only game in town...hopefully we will see some other manufacturers come out with barrels and receivers.  As for the magazines, I don't know why people are geeking out?  These are the same steel Beretta Mags used in the ARX160 that you can buy brand new from Beretta (I have had 6 mags, that I have had for over three years now).  No reason to buy surplus, when you can get brand new.

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-universal-ar-15-30-round-magazine/c80018p/
Link Posted: 5/30/2020 12:58:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/30/2020 1:54:29 AM EST by katzma]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 37F:
Numbers stated don't add up.  There are three different sellers on gunbroker that show inventory over 800 kits:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869672928

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869586299

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/869654619


Real numbers of parts kits look to be in the thousands.  I reached out to Turbothis (Matt Yeamans) and he is too busy to take on the project.  He originally produced AR70 receivers.  To be honest, I am not a big fan of Mark Serbu, but if he is the only game in town...hopefully we will see some other manufacturers come out with barrels and receivers.  As for the magazines, I don't know why people are geeking out?  These are the same steel Beretta Mags used in the ARX160 that you can buy brand new from Beretta (I have had 6 mags, that I have had for over three years now).  No reason to buy surplus, when you can get brand new.

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-universal-ar-15-30-round-magazine/c80018p/
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Those 3 sellers don't each have 800 kits.(note they all have the same # available) They are selling through a distributor, basically you pay them and they order the kits and drop ship it to you. Their distributor started with 815~ kits. Apex had 100 and CFS had under 100.

As for the mags they have a earlier dates. And don't have the M marking. Nothing special but fun to have mags that were used in the AR70/90s. Not a new production mag.  

I built a AR70 on one of Matt's receivers. It was a work of art and wish he would make one for these.
Link Posted: 5/30/2020 5:37:51 AM EST
Katzma,

Thanks for posting.

Makes me want to pick up a kit.

If barrels and some form of receiver/Receiver section are made, this might not be a bad kit to build.

Are the front pin lugs part of the trunion itself and cut off?  or are they actually part of the sheet metal receiver?

How hard is the ejector to liberate from the section of receiver riveted/welded to it?
Link Posted: 5/30/2020 9:57:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/30/2020 1:03:20 PM EST by katzma]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Are the front pin lugs part of the trunion itself and cut off?  or are they actually part of the sheet metal receiver?

How hard is the ejector to liberate from the section of receiver riveted/welded to it?
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The lugs were part of the trunnion. ATF mandated that they had to be cut off because in the early AR70 demils you could still fire them since the bcg is held into the trunnion/upper with the gas piston (thought it would be dangerous). But they will be a easy fix.  

Ejector isnt hard to remove. It's spot welded, riveted and welded on. Cut weld, drill spot weld and grid off and punch out the rivet.
Link Posted: 5/30/2020 1:43:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katzma:
The lugs were part of the trunnion. ATF mandated that they had to be cut off because in the early AR70 demils you could still fire them since the bcg is held into the trunnion/upper with the gas piston (thought it would be dangerous). But they will be a easy fix.  

Ejector isnt hard to remove. It's spot welded, riveted and welded on. Cut weld, drill spot weld and grid off and punch out the rivet.
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Thanks for the information.  ATF! - I don't suppose they noticed there is no barrel in these kits to fire if attached - but there is no satisfying them sometimes.

I see on the left side of your trunnion there is a hole - What is that from or for?  It looks close to where the locking lugs of the bolt might be locking into the trunion?  Got a pic of the inside of that area?

Thanks for your help but I will note - You have caused some trouble - My wife's birthday is around the corner and I've got to now get a gift that makes this kit look small in comparison!!!!
Link Posted: 5/30/2020 2:22:54 PM EST
Here's Richard's (APEX) explanation on the cut tabs.



The hole in the trunnion is factory. My guess so they could mill something on the locking lugs. Heres some pics.









Link Posted: 5/31/2020 5:30:15 AM EST
Thanks for the information and sharing the progress of the project.  Keep up the great work and photos.
Link Posted: 6/10/2020 5:32:15 PM EST
Finally got my hands on a ribbed dust cover housing. Pretty excited.  Found out the 3rd party that bought the rest of the kits is Century. I've ordered 2 other kits trying to get the ribbed dust cover and they both came from century. Noticed the kits have more wear and tear than my first APEX kit. My guess is they got the pick of the litter.

Waiting on Serbu to release their barrels, should be in a week or two.

Link Posted: 6/11/2020 6:04:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2020 6:13:14 AM EST by cherenkov]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katzma:
Finally got my hands on a ribbed dust cover housing. Pretty excited.  Found out the 3rd party that bought the rest of the kits is Century. I've ordered 2 other kits trying to get the ribbed dust cover and they both came from century. Noticed the kits have more wear and tear than my first APEX kit. My guess is they got the pick of the litter.

Waiting on Serbu to release their barrels, should be in a week or two.

https://i.imgur.com/EThlsi5.jpg
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Very Cool.  Does the Ribbed Cover denote a certain variation or vintage?  It's the little things like this  make collecting guns/parts more interesting.

How is the Buttstock affixed.  As un-authetic as this sounds, I would think a Galil style folder or hinged stock would make this much better.

I'd be curious as to the receiver options that may follow - reapir sections or 80% or complete???

Mark Serbu did a Steyr SMG kit rebuild video where he showed a very nice repair section someone made, I'd be hopeful he has connections resources to channel some interest for a maker to this platform.

PS thanks again for sharing.
Link Posted: 6/11/2020 7:40:19 AM EST
Thanks.  The ribbed dust cover is a later variant, early was smooth. It's ribbed so that dirt/sand will collect in the grooves and not jam up the slider.

The butt stock attaches by a single bolt with a couple tabs on the stock that fit into the lower.  The SC70/90s had a stock that looks similar to the galil stock, and a SC stock just recently sold on gunbroker for $2000.  I bought a FAL para stock that should be delivered today in hopes that I can fit it to the lower.  More updates on that this afternoon.  
Link Posted: 6/12/2020 10:43:05 PM EST
Here the progress so far on the para stock. Since I didn't win the SC stock I decided to make my own.  I made a steel adapter and used a FAL para stock. Had to remove some material from the stock (silver areas by the knuckle) and remove a little from the right side selector. Still need to get mounting hardware to finish it. Happy how it turned out.

















Link Posted: 6/13/2020 6:37:05 AM EST
That FAL Para stock looks great on that lower.  Looks much better than the fixed by far.

The FAL stocks are not as easy to find lately - and oddly so are the Galil - they used to be surplus lots of them, but not so much anymore.

I see ACE and CNC Warrior has a folder that might work similarly.
Link Posted: 6/13/2020 5:08:02 PM EST
@katzma Where did you get the B+T mounting rail?
Link Posted: 6/13/2020 5:13:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MPiKM:
@katzma Where did you get the B+T mounting rail?
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RTG had it. For several years. Ordered it and guess it was their last one or probably only one they had. B+T said they are discontinued
Link Posted: 6/14/2020 6:49:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By katzma:
RTG had it. For several years. Ordered it and guess it was their last one or probably only one they had. B+T said they are discontinued
View Quote


I saw that on their website in my quest for one.

Not exactly sure about how the locking mechanism works on it - somewhat resembles AR180 QD mount in a way - I might be able to modify and experiment with some cheap riser mounts and mill out the bottom hollow to the correct shape to mate the upper receiver top.

Hoping for some entrepreneur to make an 80% or Complete receiver.



How are the rails attached in the receiver and are they machined or folded sheet metal like an AK?
Link Posted: 6/14/2020 7:23:53 AM EST
Rails are spot welded to the receiver. From what i can tell from the tiny pieces left they are milled.
Link Posted: 6/14/2020 5:44:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2020 5:54:03 PM EST by katzma]
Finished my FAL stock adapter. Pretty happy how it turned out. LOP is maybe 1/8" shorter than the factory stock. Had to re-tap the lower 1/2x20. Its originally m7x1.25 or some type of metric thread that I can't find a screw for.










Link Posted: 6/15/2020 5:40:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2020 5:50:21 AM EST by Frens]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katzma:
RTG had it. For several years. Ordered it and guess it was their last one or probably only one they had. B+T said they are discontinued
View Quote


NuovaJager in Italy is a big manufacturer and importer: They make a lot of stuff in house and offer maintenance services to the Knights SR25 issued to our armed forces.
They have a rail adapter for sale on their webshop.. a bit pricey..
Defcon5 has its own version as well.



The Terni Arsenal also developed a non folding M4 stock adapter for the 70/90.. It was fielded in Astan before the adoption of the ARX. The only adapter I could find is sold by PetzCo. Not sure if its the same.


Link Posted: 6/15/2020 7:44:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Frens:


NuovaJager in Italy is a big manufacturer and importer: They make a lot of stuff in house and offer maintenance services to the Knights SR25 issued to our armed forces.
They have a rail adapter for sale on their webshop.. a bit pricey..
Defcon5 has its own version as well.

https://nuovajager.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/DSCN5432.jpg

The Terni Arsenal also developed a non folding M4 stock adapter for the 70/90.. It was fielded in Astan before the adoption of the ARX. The only adapter I could find is sold by PetzCo. Not sure if its the same.

https://www.militarypedia.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/AR-70-90-con-GLX-160-e-modifiche-monte-cervino.jpg
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Thank you for sharing, very interesting.  

Was their a carbine or short barrel version of the AR70/90?


Link Posted: 6/15/2020 8:30:38 AM EST
The SCP issued to the Airborne got most of the cool upgrades
Link Posted: 6/19/2020 5:49:08 PM EST
I received my kit today - similar to posted above only my bolt was slightly used - not NIW.  Still in great condition.  I liberated the trunion and ejector.

I need to make a plate to mount a folding stock and I Need to choose a path on the stock type for the project.

I also sent an email to Serbu Firearms about barrels - They said they will ask Mark and get back to me.  

Sincerely Hoping it works out that someone will make a few barrels and receiver + rail options.  With only 800 or so kits, its a small time project not a big business.


Link Posted: 6/19/2020 6:23:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cherenkov:
I received my kit today - similar to posted above only my bolt was slightly used - not NIW.  Still in great condition.  I liberated the trunion and ejector.

I need to make a plate to mount a folding stock and I Need to choose a path on the stock type for the project.

I also sent an email to Serbu Firearms about barrels - They said they will ask Mark and get back to me.  

Sincerely Hoping it works out that someone will make a few barrels and receiver + rail options.  With only 800 or so kits, its a small time project not a big business.


View Quote
@cherenkov did your kit have a smooth or ribbed dust cover? Anything in the grip?   Mark said they will have barrel sometime in the near future. Are you on weaponsguild?  If not you should join. Several posts about the 70/90s and ones from Mark.  I'm planning on buying a galil stock and mod it to fit mine. As soon as APEX gets their stocks listed.
Link Posted: 6/19/2020 6:34:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katzma:
@cherenkov did your kit have a smooth or ribbed dust cover? Anything in the grip?   Mark said they will have barrel sometime in the near future. Are you on weaponsguild?  If not you should join. Several posts about the 70/90s and ones from Mark.  I'm planning on buying a galil stock and mod it to fit mine. As soon as APEX gets their stocks listed.
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It was smooth - I checked first thing! since you explained there were some ribbed out there.

Nothing in the storage part of the grip - very interesting assembly using wire spring for the trap door.

I am not on weapons guild, I used to check it out years ago but hadn't in recent past
I will check it out and try to join. Thanks for the tip.

Link Posted: 6/19/2020 7:55:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cherenkov:
I received my kit today - similar to posted above only my bolt was slightly used - not NIW.  Still in great condition.  I liberated the trunion and ejector.

I need to make a plate to mount a folding stock and I Need to choose a path on the stock type for the project.

I also sent an email to Serbu Firearms about barrels - They said they will ask Mark and get back to me.  

Sincerely Hoping it works out that someone will make a few barrels and receiver + rail options.  With only 800 or so kits, its a small time project not a big business.


View Quote


Where did you get your kit from?
Link Posted: 6/20/2020 10:32:33 AM EST
Gunbroker auction - If you do a search you will find three-five vendors selling the kits .  The one I bought from was Bigdaddy somthing.

Three vendors  are all around the same price range ($410-$430) and a few individuals selling premium kits at >$600.  Do a search on Gunbroker.com for "Beretta AR70/90" and you can't miss them.

Link Posted: 6/20/2020 4:39:06 PM EST
Few pics mocked up with the para stock plus one with the B&T picatinny mount. Going to pick a galil stock and make it fit. Not a fan of how much the FAL para stock angles down.





Link Posted: 6/21/2020 7:24:53 AM EST
Looks Great.

I'm trying to think of how to mod a Galil stock to fit or go with a commercial ACE folder & block assembly.  The ACE would likely work easier, but not as nice as a military Galil stock.

With the Galil stock the round boss that goes into the Galil receiver would need to be cut off and then figure a way to mount the rest of the assembly to the Beretta Lower.
Link Posted: 6/21/2020 10:19:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/26/2020 12:24:01 AM EST
Decided to try my hand at aluminum casting. Made a pattern as close to the SC70/90 stock as my wood working skills could handle.  All I had to go off of was pictures online and from the one that sold for $2k on GB.  Happy with it for now, made out of oak and plexiglass.  Tomorrow I'm going to mix up some greensand, make a flask and hopefully pour in some aluminum.  I made just the stock for now, planning on pouring a couple and trying to duplicate the SCs folding mechanism for one and using a robinson XCR folding mechanism on the other.  Would be nice to have one to get correct dimensions off of, a 3D printer to make a nice pattern and mill to make the rest lol but oh well.























Link Posted: 6/26/2020 5:16:00 AM EST
The airsoft counterpart would be a good starting point
Link Posted: 6/26/2020 5:35:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/26/2020 5:38:19 AM EST by cherenkov]
Amazing skills - You are quite the craftsman and ingenious.  I like how you matched the web in the stock!  Clever!

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By katzma:
Decided to try my hand at aluminum casting. Made a pattern as close to the SC70/90 stock as my wood working skills could handle.  All I had to go off of was pictures online and from the one that sold for $2k on GB.  Happy with it for now, made out of oak and plexiglass.  Tomorrow I'm going to mix up some greensand, make a flask and hopefully pour in some aluminum.  I made just the stock for now, planning on pouring a couple and trying to duplicate the SCs folding mechanism for one and using a robinson XCR folding mechanism on the other.  Would be nice to have one to get correct dimensions off of, a 3D printer to make a nice pattern and mill to make the rest lol but oh well.

https://i.imgur.com/bjfEW5X.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CtQLOcT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AxadSmW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ncVrsf5.jpg

Amazing skills - You are quite the craftsman and ingenious.  I like how you matched the web in the stock!  Clever!



https://i.imgur.com/nNjFVJK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DjMtcIc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/b1CtpxY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dt7DmzH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RXWcNhL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jRdslTp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sVUFcys.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NhbZWE0.jpg
View Quote


Link Posted: 6/28/2020 7:40:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Frens:
The airsoft counterpart would be a good starting point
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I've only seen one airsoft SC70/90. Be as hard to find as a real stock. If you have a line on one please let me know!
Link Posted: 6/28/2020 7:52:18 PM EST
Finally got to pour some aluminum. Got held up by fishing and riding my 85 Tri-Z.



The first pour went terrible. My homemade green sand didn't pack very well, I let the aluminum cool too much before I poured, the feeder hole was too small and I only had one vent.  









The second pour went 10x better. I remixed the greensand. Added a second vent and relocated a bigger feeder hole.  Also kept the aluminum hotter.  Heres pics of the second pour. Cleaned it up some  (will be cleaned up more).  Pretty happy with how it came out. Only a small bit of shrinkage (which I might fill with a sling mount).  Still need to finish the clean up and make the folding adapter for the XCR folding mechanism.  









Link Posted: 6/28/2020 7:58:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2020 8:00:43 PM EST by MPiKM]
I got my Century kit yesterday. Any word from Mark Serbu on the barrels or possibly receivers?
Link Posted: 6/28/2020 8:13:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MPiKM:
I got my Century kit yesterday. Any word from Mark Serbu on the barrels or possibly receivers?
View Quote
Not yet. Last he said he is making a billet receiver for his.
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