The time has come that I decided to put together a Battle Belt for training  and SHTF scenarios. Pictures to follow once I receive all items.

1) Blue Alpha Gear, 1.75" double belt rig.
2) D.A.R.K. Trauma kit with Chito gauze and rip shear options.
3) Pistol Mags, HSGI taco LT Belt mount with adjustable belt mount, QTY:3
4) Rifle Mag, HSGI Taco belt Mount with adjustable belt mount, QTY:1
5) Esee-4 knife with kydex sheath.
5) Holster: Blackhawk Omnivore for now. Working on finding a better holster for my weapon of choice, HK45 w/Surefire X300U

I'm looking forward to putting this together.

That's pretty close to my set up.
I think you'll like it a lot!

Similar to my setup except I have two pistol mags instead of three and I don't carry a fixed blade.

I'm hoping so. I seeked advice and did a lot of research before purchasing.

I'm not sure if I'll use all. three. I was thinking the third could be for a flashlight or mullti-tool. In reference to the fixed blade, if I don't like it on there, I'll add it to my go to bag or vehicle bag.

I ordered the Blue Alpha belt as well... Still deciding on pouches though

Blue Alpha belt all the way.

Too many pistol mags.

You have 1 rifle mag and 3 pistol mags.  Even if you're using your belt in conjunction with a plate carrier or chest rig (with hopefully at least 6 rifle mags in / on it) you have too much weight and space devoted to handguns.  I have a double pistol mag case on my belt, but one of the spaces holds a flash light.

Rifle first.
Rifle always.

People on this site are pistol mag mental.  Handguns are last ditch tools.

Back when I started experimenting with field gear (hiking in the woods, wearing it at the shooting range, etc), around 1983, six AR15 30rd mags was the standard "light load" based upon the infantry's ALICE set up.  After looking at pictures of my father in Vietnam (1st Recon Bat, USMC) wearing four 782 mag pouches, two canteens and a buttpack ... along with a Medium Alice Pack with two canteens stuck on the side of it ... I realized basing your gear on what you see someone else (or espeicaly general infantry ... which enjoys logistical support) isn't a good plan.

Recon Marines operated in small units far from supply and support (I have AARs from my father's unit). They, much like a civilian in the United States, needed the ability to project force to break contact / disengage and retreat to safety.

I have a lot of pictures from my father's time in SE Asia (some of which are shown in the book Force Recon Dairy 1970).  I don't remember seeing a single handgun in any of them.

Rifle First.
Rifle Always.

I do have 6 mags on my plate carrier. I was thinking of only two pouches for the belt.

Forgot the second half of my rant ...

Again, 6 rifle mags were the "light" load.  Now it seems to be 2 or 3 rifle mags with 2 or 3 pistol mags.  If I'm so weak I can't carry more than 3 rifle mags with my sidearm compliment ... I'm ditching the weight of the pistol and pistol mags for additional rifle mags.

Rifle > Pistol x 10,000,000*

*Pistols are great for daily life where walking around with an AR would cause your neighbors to throw rotten vegetables at you. However, when you know you're up for a fight ... such as a time when you're donning a battle belt .. think volume of rifle fire.  You don't have a fire team to back you .. or a logical supply chain .. so if you want to be the last man standing ... feed your rifle.

Field Gear Serves 4 Purposes ...

FIRST ... makes holes in the enemy (rifle ammo)
SECOND ... plugs holes the enemy made in you (IFAK / med)
THIRD ... keeps you in the fight (water and chow if you're LRRP'g)
FOURTH ... helps you break from the fight and survive (rifle ammo and basic orienting gear)

EXCELLENT!!!!

I personally feel a handgun with a single reload is about all the weight and space I'd relegate to a last ditch secondary item.  Frankly, your ESEE4 is more useful than the handgun. (I carry a fixed blade on my belt ... they're extremely handy field tools that can be used as offensive weapons and EXTREMELY LAST DITCH defensive weapons).

I agree, being new to the Battle Belt world, I'd rather order more, (especially with lead times now), and not need it, then find out the hard way. I have a safe to store these things in and could always sell the extra gear.

Holster?  

OP, I'm not attacking you. I'm ranting at clouds.

This website has prolific amount of pictures of people's gear that show WAY TOO MUCH PISTOL STUFF and WAY TOO LITTLE RIFLE AMMO.  I can only conclude the following:

1) People are intellectually inept, and watch too many movies wherein handgun use in "combat" is exaggerated.
2) People lack critical thinking skills.  They're the same people that will argue about 9mm vs 45ACP but then don't look at handgun vs rifle threat-termination potential.
3) They're 13 year old girls that can't handle an extra three pounds (3x 30rd AR mag).
4) They look at pictures, which have been trending toward the absurdly light gear, and mimicing what they see.  This is a downward cycle toward 1 rifle mag (in the gun) and 82 handgun mags duct taped to their back like John McClain.

If people on this site would actually stop to consider what a civilian would have to do in a grid-down armed confrontation ... they'd look to historic pictures for gear inspiration.  No "admin pouches", "battery carriers", 7824 handgun mags, etc ... just "dope and beer" ....

Completely forgot about that.

Updated post

I'm a huge proponent of having "back up kit" squirreled away some place.  Modern field gear isn't necessarily a "consumable" but it isn't going to last forever.  Its good to have backup items to replenish your first-line kit if something gets damaged ... or ... to don if you have to dump your gear for some reason (make a run for it and hit water to deep to fjord, etc).

I don't take the criticism or as you did, point things out to educate as an attack. The advice I received are from LEO/military types. Having said that, I'm always open to suggestions, education. I can always change it up/order what I need/change accordingly.

Thanks - you have a great attitude.

When your gear comes in be sure to jog in it, and then perform a couple dozen ups-n-downs.  You'll find a belt without suspenders can be a pain in your lumbar and/or abdomen if you don't position your gear in the correct locations.

At my age I'm ready to ditch the belt altogether.  They're great for wearing at the range or walking around the house.  However, once you add a PC and ruck or start dynamic movements they quickly become troublesome (for me anyway).

Forgot to mention ...

My PC has three Tactical Tailor Universal Mag Pouches (each can hold up to 3 AR15 30rd or 2 SR25 20rd).  This lets me scale  up from 6 to 9 AR mags if I desire.

Yes, its heavy, but when you start cutting unnecessary weight .. you can up-arm with rifle ammo.

For a holster I used a G-code on a RTI......... I really like that setup since I switch my secondary depending on what I am doing sometimes it's a G21 sometimes a 1911 ect. super fast holster swaps.

Maybe we should just ditch our rifles in favor of handguns since "almost ALL moments of SHTF for civilians / snip end with a handgun"?

Why waste time learning a rifle when all we need is a handgun?

Serious question to someone clearly "in the know".

By the way, the rifles carried by those SE Asia combatants is ... wait for it ... the same rifle carried by us today.

I guess the only thing that has changed is people's concept of "enough ammo".

My last question for you ... can you explain to all of us stupid people what those "50 years of tactical advancements" consist of .. and more importantly ... how they apply to civilians (since that's the vast majority of people on ARFCOM)?

I'll leave this thread to you now because I'm hoping to learn something.

I wonder how many enlisted infantry in the military RIGHT NOW (not 50 years ago) are issued sidearms in addition to their M4 vs say night vision.  I'm referring to rank-and-file infantry not Ranger and up, because the average enlisted infantryman is a lot closer to the average person on ARFCOM in terms of training, physical fitness, etc.

Since deadlined primary transitions are a big deal and all ... you'd think those people who actually engage in combat for a living would be issued a handgun and rifle.

I do understand your point.  I carry a handgun everyday and have done so for the past 28 years.  This is because they're convenient and it is not socially (or practically) acceptable to haul a M4 everywhere.  However, if I KNOW I'm going into a fight .. this is a Battle Belt thread .. not a CCW or LEO thread .. I'm taking a rifle with as much ammo as I can carry.  If I'm not physically capable of carrying AT LEAST 6 AR mags in addition to a handgun I'm foregoing the handgun because unless you're a CF with a POS your M4 is going to make it through a whopping 210 rounds without deadlining.  Again, civilians aren't taking IED blasts or dropping their gear out of helicopters.

If I was door-kicking SWAT cop then you'd better believe I'd have a sidearm.  However, the only door kicking I'm likely to experience is someone conducting a home invasion.  In this case I'm confronting the threat with a Benelli M2 or M4.  

If I have to leave my house in some random BS Mad Max scenario ... I"m more interested in spending my carried weight on food for me and my rifle.

But I'm just some internet dumbass.

If you read the context of my posts, the meat of my position is this ...

1) The OP listed a battle belt with THREE pistol mags and ONE rifle mag.  He did not say this was an "in conjunction with" belt to be used along a PC or CR with additional rifle ammo.
2) I commented TOO MANY pistol mags.  Even with 9 rifle mags I don't see why anyone would want FOUR (total) handgun mags.  Handguns are LAST DITCH DEFENSIVE WEAPONS.  How long do you anticipate carrying out a protracted defense with a sidearm ?  
3) My comments were about how people on this site seem to carry 2-3 AR mags and an equal number of pistol mags, and how I personally find this retarded (see context of Point 1 and Point 2).

Randy Shughart and Gary Gordon would probably have something to say about RIFLE vs HANDGUN ammo.

Shughart and Gordon carried M1911A1s with 2 or 3 (accounts vary) handgun mags.

1911 weighs 39 ounces
1911 loaded mag weights about 8.25 ounces x 3 = 24.75 ounces

Handgun and 3 mags = 63.75 ounces or approximately 4 pounds.

30rd USGI aluminum loaded mag weighs about 1 pound.

Would of Gordon been better off with an additional 120 rounds of 5.56 for his CAR or 28 rounds for his 1911?

So, to get back to the original question at hand, @Campy6169, go to 2 pistol 2 rifle mags. Ditch the knife and keep that in a 3rd line bag.

So much to unpack here. So I'll start with the above.

I started my career out in the infantry.  I was issued a sidearm once, it was because I was a 240 Gunner. The only other folks with sidearms were officers and medics (sometimes).  So there is no emphasis put on training transitions since the vast majority of the force doesn't have sidearms.  Everyone has NVGs assigned to them.

And NO the average infantryman IS stronger, fitter, and tougher than the average ARFCOMER and citizen for that matter. Go on a military base and take a look at the servicemembers. The vast majority are fit and there are few fatties and weaklings (I'm not including dependapotapi). Then go into town and see who's on college campuses or at any major shopping area. The contrast is staggering.  I have noticed this at every installation I was stationed at or TDY. Only exceptions were the European bases, but that's not a huge shocker. Do they exist, absolutely. I changed career fields and had someone on a sister team who was too small and weak to carry his rucksack from the bird to his billet. He never went out on missions and was a FOB bitch as a result putting the rest of his team at risk both mentally and physically. He's no longer in the community and will not be allowed back.

Now back on topic.  I carried what the mission dictated. If we expected sustained contact or being away from vics it was 8. If it was a "hide with pride" type mission it was 4-6 with more in my ruck.  The times I was issued a sidearm I usually carried 2 mags on my belt. Very rarely would it be more than 2.  I bounced between 1 and 2 mags on my belt.  I ended up settling on 1 M4, 2 pistol mags (3 when I was carrying a 1911), a frag, and a BOK (Izzy and TQ pre sized for my leg). This is what I wore on the FOB as well as what I wore on patrol. I'm not built like a CRF dude, and there's only so much I can cram on my 34" waist before it interferes with my kit, assault pack/ruck, or vehicle seats.

If I was building a belt for myself now since I've gotten my final PCS orders to 1st Civ Div. It would be the same as what I carried overseas less the frag.  The likely hood of me needing more than what I'm carrying in the gun is long since behind me.  I have zero qualms about carrying a CCW with 1 mag, or what's in the cylinder, and no reloads.  I usually carry a reload but if I don't want to or if my attire/situation doesn't allow for it I don't fret about it. My bump in the night gun is my CCW with whatever it's got in it and that's it.  Never carried a fixed blade. Had a folder in a pocket.  Started with a big honking one, traded it out for a 2" blade.  I only need so much blade to cut 550 cord and kill MREs. I suck at knife fighting and would rather fight hand to hand till one of the 12+ dudes I was with got there to shoot the fucker I had the unfortunate luck of rolling with. Thankfully never happened.

In response to point 2. 2 hours. I was in a firefight for two hours with only a pistol because Terry decided to try and breach the perimeter while I was coming back from a DFAC.

I absolutely disagree. As a civi the chances of you needing a military sized load out is next to non and if you do you’ve done something very wrong. 6 rifle mags is WAY too much weight.

Way overkill. But go ahead and try it OP. Just make sure you train in it. I’ll give it three days before you’re ditching three mags.

Tell us, what direct action scenario will a civi find themselves in where they need that much ammo?

What scenario will a civi find them selves in where they actually survive past a couple of mags?  And be honest. Not many.

Be realistic. Not Vietnam. Not soldiers. Should be avoiding conflict. ESPECIALLY in a SHTF scenario.

I give up.  It’s a fools errand to try to reason with people on here. The lack of internal logical consistency for the counter arguments makes it impossible .

My whole point was more rifle less pistol.

Counter arguments (when stripped of ornamentation) are ...

Most everything a civ will use a gun for can be handled with a pistol ... so why have a rifle ... especially since we all seem to think 3-4 pounds of rifle ammo is unbearable.

Soldiers are stronger than ARCOMMERS ... that was my point ... so why add 3 pounds with a handgun.

I’m incapable of thinking of any situation (as a SINGLE CIV WITHOUT A CADRE OF OTHER SHOOTERS AT MY SIDE TO SUPPLY VOLUME OF FIRE) that would require more than a few rounds ... okay maybe in your mind the only reason for a civilian to own a firearm is typical self defense... but you fail to understand the purpose of our 2nd Amendment (Hint: defense against tyranny not a meth head).

What if my rifle Malfunctions and I need to “transition” .... in 90  to 120 rounds? What kind of poorly maintained POS do you own?  I clean my range guns every 1500 whether they need it or not.

I was infantry and almost nobody had a sidearm but did have $6000 NVDs .... uhm that was my point.  A $500 M9 vs $6000 NVD ... not a cost issue for the sidearm ... so if people that actually fight aren’t getting handguns why do civilians seem obsessed with carrying one ALONG WITH  their rifles.

I’m done.  I need to post a bunch of AR mags on the EE so I can buy some holsters.

Edited-joker581

If you think you're gonna be able to lone wolf some shit and not get killed you do you.  Clearly you're more #operator than people who have actually been in combat or firefights in a variety of roles and know way better than us with your VN era doctrine.  

OP assuming you have a CCW practice with that till your bored and tired, then keep going.  Once you have that down pat add in a belt with everything in more or less the same locations (exception being if you AIWB now your gun is gonna be on your 3 or 9.  2+2 is about the most you'll want to carry in regards to rifle and pistol ammo.  It more or less balances out the gun and keeps the belt from riding funny, which gets old quick.

No, you’re just wrong in this case. You obviously don’t understand different load outs for different rolls.

And regular infantry don’t have $6000 NV.  They have a single pvs 14.

I'll give that a try, thanks for the advice.

And get a set of suspenders!

Infantry are designed from the ground up to fight in fireteams and squads, and are equipped as such.  They are absolutely not a viable point of reference for the average person looking for a personal setup.  Anyone in the military with the potential to work outside of that structure is usually issued a sidearm.

As a lone civilian you are more concerned with defense than offense, and possibly maintaining a lower profile. There is also the fact that nobody walks around 24/7 with their PC and rifle, but you can always have a belt and pistol on.

OP, do what you feel you need to do for your situation, regardless of the lone wolf warriors out there.

Unless you’re a LEO.

Then you can be like the autozone security guard

Any recommendations?

You 100% do not need suspenders for a double rig belt.  I have a Blue Alpha gun belt for work, I love it.  The only belts that need suspenders are the huge shitty padded ones.




^^^This^^^

@Campy6169
Your belt setup with 3 mags is perfectly fine.  Most guys who shoot for their job have a single PMAG on their non dominant side (speed reload) and three pistol mags in front of their speed pouch.  It's pretty standard and works fine for a sub-load.

@GaryT1776
Please switch to decaf and please don't base your advice to guys asking for basic help off of Vietnam era gear loadouts that were used solely for conducting R&S and Stingray missions.  It's pretty cool your dad was a Recondo in Vietnam but things have changed so much since then I don't even know where to start.

Just my opinion, nothing more:

I am a minimalist. So for a belt, I would stick to a max of three magazines. It could be two pistol and one rifle (which I am currently leaning towards) or two rifle and one pistol.

If you need suspenders, you have too much on your belt (again, I am a minimalist) - whittle it down and stick to the "need to have" items and forget the "it would be nice to have" items. It is too easy to keep adding more "tacticool" junk to your belt. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I really need on my belt, so you are not alone.

For a civilian (like me, I'm not even a mall ninja), I think that four to five rifle magazines (including the one in the rifle) should be plenty for a full loadout including plate carrier/chest rig. If I can't solve the problem in front of me with the 30 rounds in my initial magazine, I'm going to re-evaluate my decision making process. Military guys, definitely more ammo.

On the plate carrier/chest rig, maybe one or two more pistol mags. If your rifle fails early (which can happen), the extra mags for the pistol will come in handy.

Again, I'm not claiming this is THE right answer. Only my opinion.

Update: The ESEE knife and DARK medical trauma kit have arrived. I ordered the Omnivore holster and see how that works. Also ordered and received the Surefire X300-A in tan. looks like the belt itself is another 3-4 weeks out, pouches should be delivered next week.

Looking forward to the pics..In my humble opinion as a civi you have a decent setup...Unless you are going to be jumping out of a helicopter into hostile territory for a two to three week recon mission. That would require a different load out