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Posted: 1/7/2019 9:37:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Dont have one and wouldnt buy one, not even at 2k. Im waiting for the Bren.
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Posted: 1/7/2019 11:52:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dont have one and wouldnt buy one, not even at 2k. Im waiting for the Bren. The APC came up when I was researching about the Bren 2, And then I went to see one. Liked it. Felt, heavy. Seemed very well built and compact. More so than a Bren. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 12:33:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Mine has been very reliable, no issues with any type of ammo. I mostly shoot M193 and my 77gr. handloads, I’m getting close to 5000 rounds through mine with most of that suppressed.
More accurate than my Bren and Scar 16, just as reliable and more aesthetically pleasing to me. It doesn’t do anything better than any other rifle I own, but it is my favorite non AR15 5.56 caliber rifle and well worth the price. 
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Posted: 1/8/2019 12:49:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine has been very reliable, no issues with any type of ammo. I mostly shoot M193 and my 77gr. handloads, I'm getting close to 5000 rounds through mine with most of that suppressed. More accurate than my Bren and Scar 16, just as reliable and more aesthetically pleasing to me. It doesn't do anything better than any other rifle I own, but it is my favorite non AR15 5.56 caliber rifle and well worth the price. https://i.imgur.com/p2OjMtL.jpg |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 1:36:18 AM EDT
[#5]
I have not ran any 62gr. SP (XM223sp1) through mine, but I have ran a few, 3 maybe 4, boxes of the 64gr. Gold Dot’s through mine for function and accuracy and it ran fine. I prefer the TSX over bonded SP for barrier ammunition so I just don’t keep much around.
The APC and Bren are very similar, but to me, the APC just feels like a more refined rifle. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 4:15:00 PM EDT
[#6]
@India303
I wasn't trying to be a smartass but, while I wouldn't mind owning the B&T, it just seems quite expensive for what it is. Same like the SCAR16. Would love to own one but can't justify the price (although I can afford both). |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 8:49:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@India303 I wasn't trying to be a smartass but, while I wouldn't mind owning the B&T, it just seems quite expensive for what it is. Same like the SCAR16. Would love to own one but can't justify the price (although I can afford both). Ive had SCAR 16 and 17, amongst other different platforms outside of AR and AKs. My current herd in 5.56 includes 3 ARs in 14.5, 11.5 colts and Mk18 URG, one Bren 805 SBR and ARX100 SBR. So a B&T or new Bren 2 in the 8" are my two top contenders. Price is a huge con with the B&T. Is is it worth it? No it's not. Not anymore than how Porche is worth anymore than my wife's Nissan Versa for what it does. But I'm not equipping a squad here. So so this post was to get owners POV and settle the ammo issue. It's hard not to like and admire a nice piece of equipment. The Swiss guns have always been one of those hard to obtain and always the most expensive. Having seen Sig 550 going for $6k or more. We don't have a crystal ball and we don't know which way the wind will blow. Maybe $3k would be considered a steal 15 years from now. Or maybe these will sell for $1600 2 years from now. It happens. But right now I can make it happen. I like guns like these and it's very tempting. |
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Posted: 1/8/2019 9:16:12 PM EDT
[#8]
@India303
Exactly! I was gonna say, 20 years from now, these might be worth a shitload like the SIG 550s. (I have a FAMAS btw!) I definitely thought about buying the B&T and even their 9mm stuff but I"m all gunned out. I did get a FDE ARX though - my first SBR - and I need to start filling those forms out! |
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Posted: 1/9/2019 10:26:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@India303 Exactly! I was gonna say, 20 years from now, these might be worth a shitload like the SIG 550s. (I have a FAMAS btw!) I definitely thought about buying the B&T and even their 9mm stuff but I"m all gunned out. I did get a FDE ARX though - my first SBR - and I need to start filling those forms out! I'm totally taken by that B&T and I have a Bren 805 11" SBR with the ACR stock. But I'm waiting on the Bren 2 to make the final call. Im 60/40 in favor of the Bren. I may just get both. |
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Posted: 1/10/2019 3:38:09 PM EDT
[#10]
I've nothing to add other than that the APC I messed with had the smoothest action I've ever handled.
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Posted: 1/12/2019 10:05:37 AM EDT
[#11]
My main concern with B&T is spare parts...
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Posted: 1/12/2019 10:14:27 AM EDT
[#12]
I want one of these, so tag
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Posted: 1/12/2019 10:37:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine has been very reliable, no issues with any type of ammo. I mostly shoot M193 and my 77gr. handloads, I’m getting close to 5000 rounds through mine with most of that suppressed. More accurate than my Bren and Scar 16, just as reliable and more aesthetically pleasing to me. It doesn’t do anything better than any other rifle I own, but it is my favorite non AR15 5.56 caliber rifle and well worth the price. https://i.imgur.com/p2OjMtL.jpg |
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Posted: 1/12/2019 3:24:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My main concern with B&T is spare parts... For instance, FNC parts. Hardly existent. Parts for my Daewoo and FAMAS? Same. |
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Posted: 1/30/2019 12:06:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not the answer I sought. And I just happen to have a Bren 805 SBR laying on my lap as I write this. Don't be surprised the Bren 2 will be 2K. The APC came up when I was researching about the Bren 2, And then I went to see one. Liked it. Felt, heavy. Seemed very well built and compact. More so than a Bren. |
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Posted: 1/31/2019 9:19:28 AM EDT
[#16]
India303 I see your in AZ. Have you been to Merchant Firearms lately? They have all the B&T stuff and they are the only place I have seen a 556 Rifle with a folding stock already on it and MLock handguard. I have a Bren 2 which is pretty awesome so I doubt the B&T is worth the extra $1,7000 but it is pretty awesome for sure. I really wanted to buy it but $3,300 is a lot to spend on a rifle even if it will be worth way more in a few years. If I did have that much extra cash laying around I would definitely buy it. You wouldn’t have to even worry about 922r like you would with a pistol.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/31/2019 9:32:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
India303 I see your in AZ. Have you been to Merchant Firearms lately? They have all the B&T stuff and they are the only place I have seen a 556 Rifle with a folding stock already on it and MLock handguard. I have a Bren 2 which is pretty awesome so I doubt the B&T is worth the extra $1,7000 but it is pretty awesome for sure. I really wanted to buy it but $3,300 is a lot to spend on a rifle even if it will be worth way more in a few years. If I did have that much extra cash laying around I would definitely buy it. You wouldn't have to even worry about 922r like you would with a pistol. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/49009/D7A51D3A-1AD3-4D59-A983-716169E88F5A_jpeg-827925.JPG |
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Posted: 1/31/2019 9:59:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Smart. I was really thinking about dropping over 3K on that B&T but I got the Bren 2 which was also at Merchant and I don’t know what the B&T could do better. The Bren 2 is my favorite even with the stupid brace for now.
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Posted: 2/1/2019 1:02:57 AM EDT
[#19]
I'm leaning on the 8" in 5.56 and maybe the 11" in x39 later on.
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Posted: 2/1/2019 1:28:45 PM EDT
[#20]
I picked up an APC9 to compare w my HKMP5k. Like th APC9 But think my HK shoots smoother and doesn’t have the reciprocating CH
I paid 2k w 7 mags for my APC new so I took it. I have 8 AR15s and was looking for a possibly better weapon. So, I was considering the B&T APC 223 and/or 308, Bren805 and Robinson XCR IMO the Robinson would be better than the Bren bec it’s just as good if not better and can swap out the grip w AR grips. I also hear really good things about them from owners. The B&T is a great weapon but I’m not sure it’s worth the price and it’s harder to get parts now and I’m sure in the future. So, if anything I’m going to go with the Robinson. However, my piston ARs are still better than all the 3 above for many reasons including the ease of finding parts. |
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Posted: 2/1/2019 1:44:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I picked up an APC9 to compare w my HKMP5k. Like th APC9 But think my HK shoots smoother and doesn’t have the reciprocating CH I paid 2k w 7 mags for my APC new so I took it. I have 8 AR15s and was looking for a possibly better weapon. So, I was considering the B&T APC 223 and/or 308, Bren805 and Robinson XCR IMO the Robinson would be better than the Bren bec it’s just as good if not better and can swap out the grip w AR grips. I also hear really good things about them from owners. The B&T is a great weapon but I’m not sure it’s worth the price and it’s harder to get parts now and I’m sure in the future. So, if anything I’m going to go with the Robinson. However, my piston ARs are still better than all the 3 above for many reasons including the ease of finding parts. Shooting my Bren 2 against ARs, I’d still pick my KAC rifles, or really even any quality AR over the Bren. The Bren shines in a nich need of a 8” rifle |
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Posted: 2/1/2019 10:31:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have experience with all but the APC223, the Bren 2 is/will be the best non-AR on market. They're all similar in a lot of ways but what the Bren 2 does that none the others you mention do is the weight. It's close to 6lbs in rifle form. The original MCX got that right too but then Sig made it more expensive and heavier. Shooting my Bren 2 against ARs, I'd still pick my KAC rifles, or really even any quality AR over the Bren. The Bren shines in a nich need of a 8" rifle Bren 805 and Bren 2 have a good chance being a prolific platform. Let's see how CZ plays those cards. They did smart with going two calibers at once. The Pakis seem to love it. Word is POF will be licensed to make it there. That's how you gain the market. |
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Posted: 2/9/2019 7:58:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My main concern with B&T is spare parts... @borat: no gun with an extruded aluminum receiver is “worth” $2k.... I once had a debate here when the Bushmaster ACR came out for $3k, (marketed to “advanced collectors and gamers”) with a guy here about costs to manufacture and his position was that the cost to engineer the rifle and the cost to make it justified the price. I told him if I were a manager at Bushmaster and my engineer came to me and said it couldn’t be made cheaper than an AR-15 I would fire him on the spot and put someone else on the project. Tooling for aluminum extrusion for these upper receivers is relatively cheap. The extruded tube is cheaper than buying forgings with far fewer machining steps to produce a finished upper. Nitriding barrels is cheaper than chroming and parkerizing, guns today have lower parts counts as pieces are made to do more than one job etc.. IMO, nothing beyond a well set up AR is really “worth” it, but we don’t always do things with our heads rather than our hearts. I’d take the B&T over the Bren2, build quality is better. |
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Posted: 2/9/2019 8:01:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens when the socialists take over and ban imports and imported parts, or if the foreign country doesn't allow exports? For instance, FNC parts. Hardly existent. Parts for my Daewoo and FAMAS? Same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My main concern with B&T is spare parts... For instance, FNC parts. Hardly existent. Parts for my Daewoo and FAMAS? Same. |
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Posted: 2/15/2019 10:42:44 AM EDT
[#25]
 B&T APC223 mg + KAC 556QDC suppressor; best 5.56 assault rifle!? |
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Posted: 3/16/2019 8:48:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I had my heart set on one, but I've passed on it. After handling them enough times, I realized I don't like the grip, the safety rubs me the wrong way, and it's just not endearing enough for the cost.
Certainly good for the guy that already has everything, but after selling $24k in toys last year, I realized this one would have ended up in the sale pile also. |
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Posted: 3/17/2019 12:27:24 PM EDT
[#27]
I can see enough of the B&T pistol caliber guns being sold in the US there will always be someone making parts available, at least for the GHM series and many parts interchange with the other PCCs.
But the B&T 223 guns? I have only seen them at Merchant and given we are all talking about one shop on the south side of Phoenix, how many of these things are really out there? As long as the hammer doesn't drop on legislation for another couple years, I could see enough CZ guns being imported to create an aftermarket. Also B&T made by Swiss and being a neutral country, it wouldn't take much of a stretch on them banning exports. |
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Posted: 3/19/2019 6:24:12 PM EDT
[#28]
I’ve been looking at both.. where is the Bren 2 in stock? I can’t find one anywhere.
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Posted: 3/21/2019 1:56:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been looking at both.. where is the Bren 2 in stock? I can't find one anywhere. |
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Posted: 3/21/2019 11:31:52 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 3/26/2019 11:49:27 PM EDT
[#31]
For those that have one, what is it like suppressed? How much gas leaks back through those large slits in the side of the upper receiver?
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Posted: 3/27/2019 9:25:23 AM EDT
[#32]
I run a Saker on mine with the gas piston to the suppressed setting and don’t notice much gas at all. Honestly it’s never been something I’ve noticed, but I’m usually running non stationary drills with mine so that probably limits my exposure to gas discharging in my face.
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Posted: 4/3/2019 9:47:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Any word on if B&T will have 300blk barrels available to convert 556 guns?
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Posted: 4/9/2019 11:41:29 PM EDT
[#34]
What are you guys using for sling mounts?
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Posted: 4/10/2019 12:45:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mine has been very reliable, no issues with any type of ammo. I mostly shoot M193 and my 77gr. handloads, I'm getting close to 5000 rounds through mine with most of that suppressed. More accurate than my Bren and Scar 16, just as reliable and more aesthetically pleasing to me. It doesn't do anything better than any other rifle I own, but it is my favorite non AR15 5.56 caliber rifle and well worth the price. https://i.imgur.com/p2OjMtL.jpg |
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Posted: 4/11/2019 9:50:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Ok. Now I'm swinging back on to the B&T train. I just picked up a APC9 and f**k if it isn't the cat's meow.
In my downsized "arsenal" in 5.56 I have 2 ARs, both with SBA3, not including my "child'" AR. And a 805 and ARX SBR. Back to rubbing my chin and wondering should I FO on a APC223 and let go the Bren. Hard to justify $5k on 2 guns in a week. But i can justify $3500 ish |
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Posted: 4/11/2019 10:29:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. Now I'm swinging back on to the B&T train. I just picked up a APC9 and f**k if it isn't the cat's meow. In my downsized "arsenal" in 5.56 I have 2 ARs, both with SBA3, not including my "child'" AR. And a 805 and ARX SBR. Back to rubbing my chin and wondering should I FO on a APC223 and let go the Bren. Hard to justify $5k on 2 guns in a week. But i can justify $3500 ish 
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Posted: 4/11/2019 10:58:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love my Scorpion, but I enjoy every aspect of my APC9 more. Same goes for my 805, it's a great rifle and I always enjoy shooting it, I just enjoy the APC223 more. https://i.imgur.com/aEhhhqY.jpg |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 2:09:26 PM EDT
[#39]
I really like the APC9 I have
I was thinking of a APC223 but I picked up a Scar16 and RA XCR for 2100 and 1200. My next weapon will NOT be a APC223 but a Bren 806. I own 8 ARs, x95, AUG, and other weapons. Of all of them my go to weapon is the SCAR16. Can’t really beat it. However, I’m still new to the XCR and evaluating that. But I like it so far. Just need more time w it If MONEY isn’t an issue and I wanted the best combat weapon it would be the SCAR APC223, Bren806 And RA XCR would be a close second Quality piston AR15 would be in 3rd AUG would be my 4th choice SCAR w extended rail, Geissele trigger and quality variable power scope like Trijicon Accupower 1-8x |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 10:11:29 PM EDT
[#40]
I have a Scar 16, 805, 806, and APC223.
If I could only grab one to defend my life with it would be the Scar, the 806 will more than likely take over first place after I get more rounds through it and prove it’s durability. Third place would be the 805 then the APC, i do think my APC is a lemon that slipped through QC but B&T has been helpful in getting it running like it should. |
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Posted: 4/13/2019 6:42:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a Scar 16, 805, 806, and APC223. If I could only grab one to defend my life with it would be the Scar, the 806 will more than likely take over first place after I get more rounds through it and prove it’s durability. Third place would be the 805 then the APC, i do think my APC is a lemon that slipped through QC but B&T has been helpful in getting it running like it should. Grip can’t be changed Bolt disassembly No bolt release Heavier And I actually like the reciprocating CH too and full control of the bolt But, we both agree our first choice would NOT be an AR15 but a Scar |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 3:08:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Dang do I keep coming back to this gun. Now that I've had the APC9 for a few months almost.
Over the last years I've reduced my "arsenal" of 5.56 down to 2 ARs, both SBR, a ARX-100 SBR, and my Bren 805 pistol. I do have one AR as a 16 inch but that's my sons. But I'm trying to just have a few. Keeping the ARX, and maybe both AR's. The Bren may go. And it's a great gun. I was going to SBR it too. I'm not into collecting so going to let the CZ go and put that towards a APC223 instead of a Bren 2. It's not final but leaning that way. |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 3:23:15 PM EDT
[#43]
I have both an apc223 and 2 bren2. I would grab a bren 2 over the APC, personally
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Posted: 5/2/2019 6:41:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have both an apc223 and 2 bren2. I would grab a bren 2 over the APC, personally |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 10:35:22 PM EDT
[#45]
I mean, you cant go wrong with both.....
Grab the APC now, and then the Bren MS when they finally become available and the prices steady out |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 9:08:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mean, you cant go wrong with both..... Grab the APC now, and then the Bren MS when they finally become available and the prices steady out Except for a 870 everything else that I own that goes boom has a pistol grip |
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Posted: 5/25/2019 12:20:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@India303 I wasn't trying to be a smartass but, while I wouldn't mind owning the B&T, it just seems quite expensive for what it is. Same like the SCAR16. Would love to own one but can't justify the price (although I can afford both). If you want something different, get a USW-A1. It’s a really good concept and a really good gun. Far exceeded my expectation. |
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Posted: 6/4/2019 8:05:37 PM EDT
[#48]
I've been looking at AR alternates to SBR. There are a lot of bad reports on them, aside from at least three members here who have had constant issues. Of course lots of good ones too, but a bad enough ratio that I wouldn't pay what they ask for it.
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Posted: 6/4/2019 10:04:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been looking at AR alternates to SBR. There are a lot of bad reports on them, aside from at least three members here who have had constant issues. Of course lots of good ones too, but a bad enough ratio that I wouldn't pay what they ask for it. |
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Posted: 6/5/2019 8:01:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And what are these bad reports saying? |
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