Assuming that Evo more popular than Sig?

Armory » Pistol Caliber Carbines

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Assuming that Evo more popular than Sig?

Posted: 2/3/2018 12:47:28 PM EDT

Just by the number of evo posts, seems Evo is more popular. Why?

Posted: 2/3/2018 1:02:57 PM EDT

[#1]

Cheaper gun, cheaper mags, dead reliable, currently in military use domewhere, no generations bullshit.

Posted: 2/3/2018 1:03:57 PM EDT

[#2]

Both works, both are reliable, both are made by top notch companies..

..but price is a big factor

Posted: 2/3/2018 1:33:03 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Both works, both are reliable, both are made by top notch companies..

..but price is a big factor

View Quote

What is the usual price difference?

Posted: 2/3/2018 1:59:00 PM EDT

[#4]

I picked my Evo up for right at $700, and the MPX for just over twice that.

Posted: 2/3/2018 2:13:41 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cheaper gun, cheaper mags, dead reliable, currently in military use domewhere, no generations bullshit.

View Quote

The rest of the thread won't be worth reading. Fpni

Posted: 2/3/2018 2:14:53 PM EDT

[#6]

The mpx usually costs twice the Evo.. mags are also more expensive, I think 3x..

Posted: 2/3/2018 2:21:27 PM EDT

[#7]

I own a CZ Scorpion Evo which is a straight blowback gun (as are all AR 9mm variants to my knowledge). I feel like the recoil is excessive for 9mm. I would consider trying out the Sig MPX, as it uses a gas piston system with a rotating bolt.

Posted: 2/3/2018 2:25:23 PM EDT

[#8]

Mpx is too expensive for what is.

a semi automatic subgun

Posted: 2/3/2018 2:38:45 PM EDT

[#9]

Price of gun. Price of mags.

Posted: 2/3/2018 3:23:24 PM EDT

[#10]

Price of gun and mags.

Maintenance,
Mine takes about 5-10 minutes to clean. My buddies Sig, not so much.

Trigger is better on Sig, but mine cost less than $15 to upgrade.

I wanted to like Sig, but my buddy got screwed buying Gen 1 to SBR. Before he got his stamp, BOOM! Gen 2 out, no 4 inch uppers for Gen 1

Sig being Sig

I am not buying a gun from a company who has a history of obsoleting so many models.

Posted: 2/3/2018 6:48:20 PM EDT

[#11]

I think I am convinced to the Evo. What about the KAK muzzle device that comes on the new ones? Seems like it would be extremely useful for indoor home security.

Posted: 2/3/2018 7:50:32 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think I am convinced to the Evo. What about the KAK muzzle device that comes on the new ones? Seems like it would be extremely useful for indoor home security.

View Quote

You're talking about the rifle handguard pistol with the KAK flash can underneath? I don't think it's a typical flash can... I think it's an extra long flash can that is about as long as an Omega 9k to extend out to the end of the handguard. So the overall length of the pistol is quite a bit more than a normal Scorpion. I believe most of the people looking at that option are planning to get a silencer and replace the flash can anyway without having to change the handguard.

You might prefer that. I wouldn't want extra length and weight for the sake of it. If you really wanted a flash can, get a 4.5" barreled version with a flash can if that's a possibility.

Here is the standard Evo with a SBT brace:

And here's the extended flash can version I think you're talking about.

Honestly, if I was looking for a compact little 9mm package for HD and didn't already have an MPX that was configured like this, I'd probably pick up the also-new Scorpion Micro:

Posted: 2/3/2018 8:18:04 PM EDT

[#13]

FPNI + Better for suppressed fire

Posted: 2/3/2018 8:37:25 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Mpx is too expensive for what is.

a semi automatic subgun

View Quote

And it's not even that the price is out of line with the materials and manufacturing; it's just that people don't want to drop that much on a semi 9mm if it's not an MP5 or clone.

To be honest, gas blowback complaints steered me away from the early ones.

On the mags - I'd rather pay 60-whatever for Lancers than $18 for the factory CZ mags, personally. The Manticore mags would solve that if they can make enough of them.

Posted: 2/3/2018 10:00:12 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
You're talking about the rifle handguard pistol with the KAK flash can underneath? I don't think it's a typical flash can... I think it's an extra long flash can that is about as long as an Omega 9k to extend out to the end of the handguard. So the overall length of the pistol is quite a bit more than a normal Scorpion. I believe most of the people looking at that option are planning to get a silencer and replace the flash can anyway without having to change the handguard.

You might prefer that. I wouldn't want extra length and weight for the sake of it. If you really wanted a flash can, get a 4.5" barreled version with a flash can if that's a possibility.

Here is the standard Evo with a SBT brace:

https://www.sb-tactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/7_SBTEVO_on_Scorpion_Evo_Right_Open_Web.jpg

And here's the extended flash can version I think you're talking about.
https://cdn.preppergunshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/l/o/logo_91353-sbtev01sb_7474.jpg

Honestly, if I was looking for a compact little 9mm package for HD and didn't already have an MPX that was configured like this, I'd probably pick up the also-new Scorpion Micro:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/1417FA49-7ACF-4F6D-BE89-0BB352162751.png

View Quote

Great reply, thanks.

Posted: 2/3/2018 11:14:07 PM EDT

[#16]

I only own the evo but the upper and lower receivers of the scorpion evo are far too big to ever be called micro. Micro would he more along the lines of a TP9 or micro uzi. Even the mpx is more compact.

Posted: 2/4/2018 1:09:56 AM EDT

[#17]

I think many folks get the Evo because it is what it is, a cheap, reliable, fun gun.

However, the MPX is severely underrated, largely because it is in a very different category altogether. It has stellar ergonomics, is very soft shooting, more trigger options. Importantly, it has the same manual of arms as an AR, so it is better for practice for those of us who shoot ARs frequently.

The two guns are just aimed at completely different audiences.

But, the real answer is: just get a B&T.

Posted: 2/4/2018 8:04:55 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:But, the real answer is: just get a B&T.

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Effin' A!

Posted: 2/4/2018 12:08:53 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Price of gun and mags.

Maintenance,
Mine takes about 5-10 minutes to clean. My buddies Sig, not so much.

Trigger is better on Sig, but mine cost less than $15 to upgrade.

I wanted to like Sig, but my buddy got screwed buying Gen 1 to SBR. Before he got his stamp, BOOM! Gen 2 out, no 4 inch uppers for Gen 1

Sig being Sig

I am not buying a gun from a company who has a history of obsoleting so many models.

View Quote

I have a Gen 1 with a factory Gen 1, 4" barrel and handguard....had to wait awhile for "k" barrel and handguard but it was worth the wait:

Posted: 2/4/2018 4:41:32 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Just by the number of evo posts, seems Evo is more popular. Why?

View Quote

...and there's a Sig sub forum that all the MPX stuff is posted in.

Posted: 2/4/2018 4:51:20 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Price of gun and mags.

Maintenance,
Mine takes about 5-10 minutes to clean. My buddies Sig, not so much.

Trigger is better on Sig, but mine cost less than $15 to upgrade.

I wanted to like Sig, but my buddy got screwed buying Gen 1 to SBR. Before he got his stamp, BOOM! Gen 2 out, no 4 inch uppers for Gen 1

Sig being Sig

I am not buying a gun from a company who has a history of obsoleting so many models.

View Quote

Roll your own.

Posted: 2/4/2018 7:49:24 PM EDT

[#22]

I wanted one real bad, then I heard about B&T and something happened.

Posted: 2/4/2018 9:38:41 PM EDT

[#23]

I have an MPX SBR pending and will probably get a Scorpion at some point since they're relatively cheap. But the Scorpion has the same problem the UMP had before it, and the reason no one adopted the UMP over the MP5: it's a klunky blowback. Put a brick in a shoebox and shake it back and forth, that's what a UMP feels like to shoot. The Scorpion is a bit better but it's nowhere close to the MP5 or the MPX in terms of shooting characteristics.

Posted: 2/5/2018 12:18:45 AM EDT

[#24]

Shot them both before buying. Sig is smoother shooting. But Evo is cheaper, cheaper mags, and no gas to the face when suppressed. I went with the Evo.

Posted: 2/10/2018 12:15:14 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Put a brick in a shoebox and shake it back and forth, that's what a UMP feels like to shoot. The Scorpion is a bit better but it's nowhere close to the MP5 or the MPX in terms of shooting characteristics.

View Quote

I am using that analogy from now on. Spot on and hilarious. I sold my USC because I just couldn’t convince myself that a semi UMP was worth it. It’s too bad they couldn’t have offered them like the Scorpions as I think they would do real well and probably still be competitive. Oh well.

Posted: 2/10/2018 5:52:41 AM EDT

[#26]

I believe now that a lot of the early failures with the MPX have been resolved, excluding everything else both weapons are more or less equal- they reliably put lead on target over short distances, better and faster, more accurate and with more velocity than a pistol.

The "everything else" is what makes it a no contest:

One is much more expensive- both parts and platform.
One is backed by a company with lackluster customer service and support.
One has been through several public betas.
One has struggled to gain acceptance with professional users.
One has demonstrated poor configuration management with respect to parts compatibility.

Posted: 2/10/2018 6:48:35 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cheaper gun, cheaper mags, dead reliable, currently in military use domewhere, no generations bullshit.

View Quote

pretty much this, I really like Sig Legacy guns, i would like to pick up a 226 legion but honestly most new designs range somewhere between junk and Keltec.

I do like their concepts and i think if given any other company, the MPX/MCX line could grow, but in the last decade Sig has not shown there are able to develop a product but abandoning some designs(Sig 556), making some lines lines obsolete (MPX and Mags), having multiple new designes face mandatory recalls(M320 and MCX) and prettty much every new design in the past years having an abnormal amount of QC issues(Sig 556 rail mounted off center, MPX/MCX bad heat treatment in trigger groups, the M320 drop test and double ejections).

with the amount of issues that the M320 has, I am going to go out on a limb and say that all engineering resources are going to be dedicated to unfucking that monstrosity

In Short, Sig is a shit show. if it was a country, it would be like Honduras or New Jersey,

ive shot both and own the CZ Scorpion and while i think the MPX shoots a little smoother than Scorpion, there is no way i am going to put up with Sigs Schizo product support, also, at the MPX price point, one would be retarded to chose the Sig over the B&T

Posted: 2/10/2018 6:58:45 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
I believe now that a lot of the early failures with the MPX have been resolved, excluding everything else both weapons are more or less equal- they reliably put lead on target over short distances, better and faster, more accurate and with more velocity than a pistol.

The "everything else" is what makes it a no contest:

One is much more expensive- both parts and platform.
One is backed by a company with lackluster customer service and support.
One has been through several public betas.
One has struggled to gain acceptance with professional users.
One has demonstrated poor configuration management with respect to parts compatibility.

View Quote

Have they? Honestly.... Sig has struggled tremendously with QC over the past 10 decade. They can't even nail the finish on their Legion line of pistols. So ok... Maybe the lMPX is good to go at the moment. but you know what. they will release a new variant and totally shit the bed somehow. like clockwork sig can fuck up a free lunch

Posted: 2/10/2018 8:31:50 AM EDT

[#29]

CZ isnt going to auddenly drop the scorpion parts snd support because they decided to produce something new due to their ADHD.

Posted: 2/10/2018 10:44:49 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

Have they? Honestly.... Sig has struggled tremendously with QC over the past 10 decade.

View Quote

You're right... even though reports have been improving, it might be dumb luck that the internet-posting-users have lately received slightly better guns (or that people have simply stopped buying/ reporting on them).

If you gave me one for free (and you would have to) I would still check for barrel off-center in the rails, pins walking out of the receiver, and reliability issues.

SIG is just a junk factory... and there's no fixing it. It's not even worth discussing if M17 money will help them hire better people, or if they dropped MPX, MCX, P938, 1911's etc if they could possibly allocate their resources differently to prevent failure... they're just too far gone.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Assuming that Evo more popular than Sig?

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