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Posted: 1/16/2021 9:30:14 AM EST
Need hive suggestions, here are my specs:
6’-1” @ 255 lbs
Muscular build, wide shoulders & chest but with a gut
Nipple to nipple = 10.75”/11”
Bottom of throat notch to belly button= 14.5”/15”

Looking for M855A1 protection in the front and may do less in the back. Might be up for a little larger plate in the back for more coverage if it makes sense. Prefer shooters cut in the front and both plates to be multi curved. Prefer comfort over lightness, but don’t want to sacrifice either.

Prefer multicam carrier that’s made in USA and has really nice features and is known for being comfortable and high quality. I also don’t want my arms/shoulders restricted if possible.

Budget for both plates and a nice carrier = $1500, but could stretch it if something awesome were within range budget wise. I don’t mind waiting for stuff to be made... not in a crazy rush to get it. I’d rather wait for quality.

I’m currently about 7 months in on my cardio/lifting program and I’m feeling good. I’m ratcheting it up for 2021 with a little more focus on cardio (now doing a 50/50 split between it and lifting... I was 70/30 lift heavy in 2020), so I should be dropping more weight moving forward.

Thanks in advance guys!

ZA
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 11:04:50 AM EST
You are similar in your measurements as me.  I have been trying to answer the same question.  Based on the "coverage" images that have been posted 10x12 cuts look like they will be leaving vitals exposed on me.  I have been unable to find large plates that aren't 11x15 steel.  Plus a lot of out of stock large carriers.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 11:20:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/16/2021 11:34:54 AM EST by SethP]
The plate should cover nipple to nipple, so you have your answer there.

Based off your measurements, if I were you I'd go for Large SAPIs or maybe 10x12s if you're willing to go even smaller. The biggest difference between the SAPI and the 10x12 is the height. You're losing 1.25" off the height.

In my experience a lot of people who don't know end up buying armor that's too big according to the established convention of armor sizing.

Sure, going bigger gives more coverage, but just know you're oversizing at that point and every size up adds a lot of weight.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 11:37:55 AM EST
I was looking at the Shot Stop Duritium GT2 armor. Is that stuff any good?
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 2:43:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZA206:
I was looking at the Shot Stop Duritium GT2 armor. Is that stuff any good?
View Quote


I don't know how well it stops bullets, but that is what I have.

It claims to stop m193, m855(a1) and m80.

It is light and comfortable in my HRT RAC.

It is cheaper and thinner than most comparable plates. Found it in stock and ready to ship. That is why I bought this particular plate.

I have nothing to compare it to and have NEVER wore armor before this. I have it on a few hours most nights since buying it.
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 8:27:24 AM EST
They are on the bottom of the list for me as they spout non-sense and use misleading model names. Their plates are all Tencate so I will say their armor should perform well but make sure to cross reference the plate models with Tencate's data sheets as there are some threats that Shot Stop rates for that are not on the Tencate data sheet.

My favorite marketing they employ is their patent pending Duritium technology. Something they can't quite explain in their text but entices us with 200% lighter weight and 40% reduction in thickness. Wowe!
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 4:42:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2021 4:43:44 PM EST by Brian01]
At your budget, look at carriers called the LBT-6094 or MOS Tactical SPAV-W.

Bear in mind the SPAV-W's are all custom made to order. The company got it's start doing accessories and repair work on Crye JPCs and LBTs. It was also designed to be like a cross between a JPC and a LBT-6094, and it has no internal padding of its own.

If you're really firm about wanting protection from M855A1, look at the Hesco U210. But that plate will involve pushing your budget closer to $2000.

If you're willing to reconsider whether you need to care about M855A1, look at the Hesco 3810.
Link Posted: 1/18/2021 5:05:45 PM EST
First Spear is a very comfortable, lightweight made in USA piece of kit.
The shoulder pads are tits..
The quick release is really nice, and as long as you don't fluctuate in weight much.. not listening to the velcro alerting everyone within earshot (your wife) that your larping or  training .. is a great innovation imho..

https://www.first-spear.com/strandh

Did I mention how comfortable it is?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:36:09 AM EST
Those large SAPI U210's are really pricey. Damn.

Two of those crushes the entire budget. They seem awesome though.

-ZA
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:48:17 AM EST
I guess I could do a U210 in the front and a 3810 in the back. that would save $250-$300..... hmmm....

3810 is rated for M855, but not M855A1. I wonder how it actually does against A1?

-ZA
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 1:17:13 PM EST
Congratulations on embarking on and your progress thus far along on your weight loss journey.  It's the best investment you can make in preparedness.  I lost approximately 60 lbs. about three years ago and have kept it off.  I highly recommend a company called "Stronger U" (just a former client no business ties to them) if you want help with your nutrition.

As far as plate carriers and plates.  Some great information already provided above.  I would simply add that I have an FCPC V5 and I definitely like it, I think it's worth looking into and if not the carrier the 3" skeleton cummerbund from Ferro is definitely worth a look.  The cummerbund is very rigid, but flexes nicely due to elastic velcro attachment to the back of the carrier.  The rigidity helps keep the plates in place when you're wearing the carrier so that the rear plate doesn't go down too long and the front plate doesn't climb up too high.  

Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 3:14:22 PM EST
I had the Shotstop, U210, and 3810s.

I now only have the 3810s.

Best balance of rating, reputation, cost, and weight in my opinion.

Plates sit in a (slightly upgraded) LBT6094A that is a few years old. I started a thread a couple of months ago asking if anything new on the market was worth ditching the LBT PC and I got a resounding... NO.

As far as I know, I am equipped with about as solid of a setup as one could want (being a non door-kicker).

Attachment Attached File




Link Posted: 1/21/2021 6:01:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZA206:
I guess I could do a U210 in the front and a 3810 in the back. that would save $250-$300..... hmmm....

3810 is rated for M855, but not M855A1. I wonder how it actually does against A1?

-ZA
View Quote


Unless you have some reason to expect certain rifle threats from only the front or back, then using different plates doesn't seem to make much sense.

The 3810 is rumored to stop A1, albeit with inconsistent results on backface deformation and on whether it can take at least 3 hits from it, hence why they can't officially claim it as a protected threat. This is based off of responses that Hesco has sent to people who email questions to them. Eventually I'm sure Buffman Range will get his hands on a 3810 for a video and we'll find out from him how many rounds of A1 it stops before penetration and with how much backface deformation there is.

Personally I' be satisfied to know it stops 2 rounds of A1 and the 3rd goes through. If I'm taking 3 or more rounds to the plate before I get a chance to dive into cover, then I probably also took a bunch of rounds elsewhere on my body too.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:26:06 PM EST
I suggest getting something that has a full soft vest behind it. You’re still more likely to be shot with a pistol.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 4:54:11 PM EST
Leaning heavily towards the Hesco 3810’s in a large SAPI cut...
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 6:23:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZA206:
Leaning heavily towards the Hesco 3810’s in a large SAPI cut...
View Quote


They're not inexpensive, but I honestly believe that they are worth the investment.  

Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:18:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/25/2021 10:48:46 PM EST by PFran42]
Why the SAPI cut? Shooter's cut is much more comfortable when shouldering at normal and odd positions. I look at SAPI as something that big mil is sort of locked into. Shooter's cut is still covering the vitals while allowing for much easier movement and lighter weight in most cases. Another strong case for them is the HSLD SMUs that are running them (called swimmer's cut).

At very least consider a SAPI rear with shooter's cut front plate.

EDIT:

Swimmer's/shooter's cut clarification
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:29:02 PM EST
Do SMUs use shooters cut? Because the vests designed for those units have SAPI pockets.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:35:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PFran42:
Why the SAPI cut? Shooter's cut is much more comfortable when shouldering at normal and odd positions. I look at SAPI as something that big mil is sort of locked into. Shooter's cut is still covering the vitals while allowing for much easier movement and lighter weight in most cases. Another strong case for them is the HSLD SMUs that are running them.

At very least consider a SAPI rear with shooter's cut front plate.
View Quote


The fact that SOCOM issues swimmers cut plates would seem to indicate that they determined the reduced coverage around the shoulders and below the vitals to not be that big of a deal.

Of course, people tend to make a habit of just thinking that whatever spec ops guys do must be the best, when in fact a lot of what they do and use is designed around their particular tasks. However, the fact that SOCOM has the budget and authority to make their own procurement decisions separately from Big Army and the rest of the DoD bureaucracy does seem help them arrive at solutions that just make sense.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:40:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:
Do SMUs use shooters cut? Because the vests designed for those units have SAPI pockets.
View Quote


They don't call it shooters cut, they call it swimmers cut. But yes, SOCOM did design its own plate shape and sizing convention, primarily for SEALs so they have a better range of motion for swimming (hence the name swimmers cut).

But I don't think you need to actually be swimming to find value in a plate shape that gives you a freer range of bodily motion and reduces weight while still covering your vitals.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:45:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:
Do SMUs use shooters cut? Because the vests designed for those units have SAPI pockets.
View Quote


They are verified to use swimmer's cut (which is more raked than even the shooter's cut). They also run multiple PCs (with what I assume would be different sized plate pockets) for different missions.

That said, I'm running a LBT 6094A which I have seen worn by some Tier 1 units and my Large 3810 10x12 shooter's cut plates fit perfectly. Top of plates is so snug to top of plate pockets that any more tight would be stretching the seams. No side-to-side play either.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:52:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PFran42:


They are verified to use swimmer's cut (which is more raked than even the shooter's cut). They also run multiple PCs (with what I assume would be different sized plate pockets) for different missions.
View Quote


SOCOM uses swimmers cut sure. Doesn’t mean JSOC does. Or all of SOCOM. Last time I talked to Rangers they used the CIRAS and ESAPI. Maybe that shows my age. And Crye plate bags are sized for SAPI for a reason.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:55:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian01:


The fact that SOCOM issues swimmers cut plates would seem to indicate that they determined the reduced coverage around the shoulders and below the vitals to not be that big of a deal.

Of course, people tend to make a habit of just thinking that whatever spec ops guys do must be the best, when in fact a lot of what they do and use is designed around their particular tasks. However, the fact that SOCOM has the budget and authority to make their own procurement decisions separately from Big Army and the rest of the DoD bureaucracy does seem help them arrive at solutions that just make sense.
View Quote


I don’t think it means it’s not a big deal. It means it’s a fair trade. And for many things it is. A lot of SOF/SMU stuff these days is low profile stuff. But look at the Crye CAGE, which was developed for Green. It’s not low profile at all. Different stuff for different stuff.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 10:58:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:


SOCOM uses swimmers cut sure. Doesn’t mean JSOC does. Or all of SOCOM. Last time I talked to Rangers they used the CIRAS and ESAPI. Maybe that shows my age. And Crye plate bags are sized for SAPI for a reason.
View Quote


I didn't say all of SOF used swimmer's cut. I just put it out there that some top-notch SMU's use swimmer's cut.

As for sizing, I don't know what fits in what except to say that my Large Hesco 3810 10x12 multi-curve plates fit in my LBT 6094A like they were made for each other. I did a quick web search for plate size specs for a LBT 6094A and I got this back:

"Fits Small & Medium SAPI Plates - 10x12" Shooter/Swimmer Cut"
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 11:11:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/25/2021 11:20:02 PM EST by PFran42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:


I don’t think it means it’s not a big deal. It means it’s a fair trade. And for many things it is. A lot of SOF/SMU stuff these days is low profile stuff. But look at the Crye CAGE, which was developed for Green. It’s not low profile at all. Different stuff for different stuff.
View Quote


Agreed... and my line of thought is the typical ARFCOMMER is much less likely to draw fire than a DEVGRU operator. So why not go with the option that allows for more comfort/range of motion? They (DEVGRU) even pick that option at times.

It would be nice if every time you ordered plates, the armor retailer sent you four sets of plates (SAPI and Shooter's cut in single and multi-curve) with the agreement being, you sent what you didn't like back. I'm betting 90%+ would send back everything except multi-curve/Shooter's cut. Shouldering a full M4 buttstock end into your shoulder pocket is much easier on Shooter's cut. It is just about impossible for me to do this using SAPI plates.

I had to shell out around $3500 just so I could experience the differences described by many on this forum (SAPI/Shooter's/Single Curve/Multi Curve). I'm glad I did it because it gives me somewhat of a position of experience as it pertains to relaying my thoughts on comfort and ergos. I'm just trying to pass what I learned on the the next guy.

For reference:

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Link Posted: 2/12/2021 9:01:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2021 9:07:41 AM EST by GunnyFitz]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZA206:
I was looking at the Shot Stop Duritium GT2 armor. Is that stuff any good?
View Quote

This is what I got in the mail 2 days ago and sure as shit its lightweight too! If you get the 10x12 plates make sure that your Carrier is fitted for them because the Mayflower Carrier I have is just a tad too small and required 2 pairs of socks on each end to stop its small movement. Looking for another Carrier which best fits the plates now. Any suggestions would be awesome. Thanks!
BTW-if anyone would like my POC at ShotStop he is a solid guy and took great care of me! There are as many personal opinions of Armor as there are with "Best Engine Oil" and as stated, you dont know what you're truly getting unless you owned a set of plates previously or had to buy em blind and find out what you chose upon arrival.
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