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User Panel
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2022 9:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheKidd]
Edit: Theoretically If I bought a shotgun that was made in 1924 with a 13 inch barrel from the factory would I need to pay the $200 for a tax stamp or would it be treated as a "pre ban" that doesn't need a stamp?
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Posted: 4/4/2022 9:37:19 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd be looking for a new 18" barrel.
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Posted: 4/4/2022 10:06:32 PM EDT
[#2]
If I bought that shotgun I would not say I bought that shotgun.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2022 10:13:12 PM EDT
[#3]
"If I bought" in a theoretical sense I have not bought anything and was wondering if I could find one for sale if would it be a good idea.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2022 11:41:01 PM EDT
[#4]
no that is like saying hey if I bought this 1928 Thompson MG its preban so I don't need to do a tax stamp right?
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Posted: 4/4/2022 11:55:22 PM EDT
[#5]
I don't know of any shotguns that are exempt from NFA but there are multiple 14" barrel pre-1934 Winchester lever actions exempted from SBR rules: Winchester 1894 "Trapper" with a 14 inch barrel.
"The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has this rare trapper carbine listed by serial number as being removed from the NFA (National Firearms Act) and classified as a curio and relic (see page 41)." I don't know where the list of exemptions is, probably on ATF's site. Maybe like they have a list of C&R guns including some with a specific serial number. I wouldn't buy this theoretical shotgun unless you saw the serial number listed as exempt from NFA. |
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Posted: 4/5/2022 7:57:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Sounds like someone missed an amnesty.
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Posted: 4/28/2022 5:42:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: shack357]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Radiolucent: I don't know of any shotguns that are exempt from NFA but there are multiple 14" barrel pre-1934 Winchester lever actions exempted from SBR rules: Winchester 1894 "Trapper" with a 14 inch barrel. "The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has this rare trapper carbine listed by serial number as being removed from the NFA (National Firearms Act) and classified as a curio and relic (see page 41)." I don't know where the list of exemptions is, probably on ATF's site. Maybe like they have a list of C&R guns including some with a specific serial number. I wouldn't buy this theoretical shotgun unless you saw the serial number listed as exempt from NFA. You'd have to send the gun to ATF individually, they'd evaluate it. They'd either rule it a factory, non NFA gun and return it with a letter, or give you the option to register or destroy. Not 100% sure, but I THINK they only give exemptions for antique(pre 1898) firearms. So unless the seller is willing to let you buy the gun without the barrel, wait for you to register it, then give you the barrel, sending it for evaluation might open both of you up to a NFA violation. Seller for transfer of SBS, you for possession. ETA-there have been a couple GDers who inherited old 14" Winchesters and sent them in for this reason. Registering them also obviously requires engraving, and that ruins them for collectors who want them as original as possible. With a classic Winchester that can mean thousands. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2022 6:14:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shack357: You'd have to send the gun to ATF individually, they'd evaluate it. They'd either rule it a factory, non NFA gun and return it with a letter, or give you the option to register or destroy. Not 100% sure, but I THINK they only give exemptions for antique(pre 1898) firearms. So unless the seller is willing to let you buy the gun without the barrel, wait for you to register it, then give you the barrel, sending it for evaluation might open both of you up to a NFA violation. Seller for transfer of SBS, you for possession. ETA-there have been a couple GDers who inherited old 14" Winchesters and sent them in for this reason. Registering them also obviously requires engraving, and that ruins them for collectors who want them as original as possible. With a classic Winchester that can mean thousands. There are plenty of post-1898 firearms that are exempt from NFA regulations .....while at the same time there remain pre-1898 firearms that aren't exempt. Detach the barrel(s) from the frame...... and "lose" them until you can figure out the exemption status. Recently, individual Ithaca Auto/Burglar guns have been added to the exemption list after evaluation ..... It all depends on exactly what you have |
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Posted: 4/28/2022 6:47:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: shack357]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: There are plenty of post-1898 firearms that are exempt from NFA regulations .....while at the same time there remain pre-1898 firearms that aren't exempt. Detach the barrel(s) from the frame...... and "lose" them until you can figure out the exemption status. Recently, individual Ithaca Auto/Burglar guns have been added to the exemption list after evaluation ..... It all depends on exactly what you have Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: Originally Posted By shack357: You'd have to send the gun to ATF individually, they'd evaluate it. They'd either rule it a factory, non NFA gun and return it with a letter, or give you the option to register or destroy. Not 100% sure, but I THINK they only give exemptions for antique(pre 1898) firearms. So unless the seller is willing to let you buy the gun without the barrel, wait for you to register it, then give you the barrel, sending it for evaluation might open both of you up to a NFA violation. Seller for transfer of SBS, you for possession. ETA-there have been a couple GDers who inherited old 14" Winchesters and sent them in for this reason. Registering them also obviously requires engraving, and that ruins them for collectors who want them as original as possible. With a classic Winchester that can mean thousands. There are plenty of post-1898 firearms that are exempt from NFA regulations .....while at the same time there remain pre-1898 firearms that aren't exempt. Detach the barrel(s) from the frame...... and "lose" them until you can figure out the exemption status. Recently, individual Ithaca Auto/Burglar guns have been added to the exemption list after evaluation ..... It all depends on exactly what you have Interesting. ETA-I'd think pre-98 would be non NFA anyway. "Antique"=non-firearm. So if it's not a firearm, it's not a shotgun, and can't be restricted like one right? |
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Posted: 4/28/2022 7:46:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shack357: Interesting. ETA-I'd think pre-98 would be non NFA anyway. "Antique"=non-firearm. So if it's not a firearm, it's not a shotgun, and can't be restricted like one right? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shack357: Interesting. ETA-I'd think pre-98 would be non NFA anyway. "Antique"=non-firearm. So if it's not a firearm, it's not a shotgun, and can't be restricted like one right? You are using logic, which the ATF is not particularly prone to using. Their position is based in ammunition availability: Section 2.2 Antique firearm. Firearms defined by the NFA as “antique firearms” are not subject to any controls under the NFA.22 The NFA defines antique firearms based on their date of manufacture and the type of ignition system used to fire a projectile. Any firearm manufactured in or before 1898 that is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition is an antique firearm. Additionally, any firearm using a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type ignition system, irrespective of the actual date of manufacture of the firearm, is also an antique firearm. NFA firearms using fixed ammunition are antique firearms only if the weapon was actually manufactured in or before 1898 and the ammunition for the firearm is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. To qualify as an antique firearm, a fixed cartridge firing NFA weapon must meet both the age and ammunition availability standards of the definition. Concerning ammunition availability, it is important to note that a specific type of fixed ammunition that has been out of production for many years may again become available due to increasing interest in older firearms. Therefore, the classification of a specific NFA firearm as an antique can change if ammunition for the weapon becomes readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download pp20 So, if your 1897 Boomstick MkI has a 14” barrel and is chambered in 13 gauge 3 13/32” you have an antique firearm not governed by the NFA. But if Remington decides to resurrect the 13 gauge cartridge next year, congratulations! You’ve got an SBS! |
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Posted: 4/28/2022 8:33:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ParityError: You are using logic, which the ATF is not particularly prone to using. Their position is based in ammunition availability: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download pp20 So, if your 1897 Boomstick MkI has a 14” barrel and is chambered in 13 gauge 3 13/32” you have an antique firearm not governed by the NFA. But if Remington decides to resurrect the 13 gauge cartridge next year, congratulations! You’ve got an SBS! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ParityError: Originally Posted By shack357: Interesting. ETA-I'd think pre-98 would be non NFA anyway. "Antique"=non-firearm. So if it's not a firearm, it's not a shotgun, and can't be restricted like one right? You are using logic, which the ATF is not particularly prone to using. Their position is based in ammunition availability: Section 2.2 Antique firearm. Firearms defined by the NFA as “antique firearms” are not subject to any controls under the NFA.22 The NFA defines antique firearms based on their date of manufacture and the type of ignition system used to fire a projectile. Any firearm manufactured in or before 1898 that is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition is an antique firearm. Additionally, any firearm using a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type ignition system, irrespective of the actual date of manufacture of the firearm, is also an antique firearm. NFA firearms using fixed ammunition are antique firearms only if the weapon was actually manufactured in or before 1898 and the ammunition for the firearm is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. To qualify as an antique firearm, a fixed cartridge firing NFA weapon must meet both the age and ammunition availability standards of the definition. Concerning ammunition availability, it is important to note that a specific type of fixed ammunition that has been out of production for many years may again become available due to increasing interest in older firearms. Therefore, the classification of a specific NFA firearm as an antique can change if ammunition for the weapon becomes readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download pp20 So, if your 1897 Boomstick MkI has a 14” barrel and is chambered in 13 gauge 3 13/32” you have an antique firearm not governed by the NFA. But if Remington decides to resurrect the 13 gauge cartridge next year, congratulations! You’ve got an SBS! I learned something today. I can go to bed fulfilled. |
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Posted: 4/28/2022 10:34:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ParityError: You are using logic, which the ATF is not particularly prone to using. Their position is based in ammunition availability: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download pp20 So, if your 1897 Boomstick MkI has a 14” barrel and is chambered in 13 gauge 3 13/32” you have an antique firearm not governed by the NFA. But if Remington decides to resurrect the 13 gauge cartridge next year, congratulations! You’ve got an SBS! Thank you, very informative. Pretzel logic. |
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